suicide and Silver Birch teachings

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mac

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Hi carol I just want to back up macs questions on these answers,I find ut difficult t believe God created physical structures like the pyramids etc,I can understand God influencing nature,mountains etc,I mean is it possible mikey could be wrong about this?also as a spirit can mikey be wrong on certain things just like us humans?

This is for Mikey to answer but I'd like to offer the following for your consideration, David. This is an issue that has divided even those who are much persuaded by the guidance of teacher, Silver Birch. As things began to look ominous in the period before World War, 2 Silver Birch was asked in one of his regular seance Q&A sessions whether war would break out. His answer was no and we all know how wrong that answer was!

It's been argued the ideas of his medium, Maurice Barbanell, had colored SB's 'channeled' communication over this point leading to a wrong 'prediction'. You have to judge for yourself whether this guide could have been wrong or whether there was coloration of his message by the medium.

My personal approach is that no spiritual guide is omniscient and that we should always exercise caution when listening to guidance from any of them, accepting only what does not offend our reason. That doesn't mean we think they're wrong about certain issues but only that we're not confident they're right. ;) That approach is one which could reasonably be applied to all mediumistic ('channeled') communication.
 

Storybud68

Active Member
Thank you for that input mac,for me I tent to think that a spirit guide cannot be wrong about anything, say for example mikey was definitely wrong about the Stonehenge subject ,it then throws into doubt everything about the carol and mikey connection as to whether it's the real thing, I see it like a domino effect if one falls knocks the next one down then they all fall.excuse my spellings please
 

mac

Administrator
Thank you for that input mac,for me I tent to think that a spirit guide cannot be wrong about anything, say for example mikey was definitely wrong about the Stonehenge subject ,it then throws into doubt everything about the carol and mikey connection as to whether it's the real thing, I see it like a domino effect if one falls knocks the next one down then they all fall.excuse my spellings please
No worries about your spelling, David. :) I don't see avdomino effect. For me it's just one issue in isolation provided the bulk of what anyone says feels essentially OK.

I'm ALWAYS, without exception, chary of heeding predictions such as the one by Silver Birch. I approach those issues that there is no single future so for EVERY predictions it's someone's best guess. That guess may be based on a vastly more well-informed perspective than we humans can ever have but it's not a fixed future that some privileged individual can see.

As for the past well I'm unsure how that works for our unseen, discarnate friends. We're told everything about everything is recorded in the so-called Akashic Records and if that's true then I would assume that those able to access these records ought to be able to see exactly what happened in our earth past time. Failing that it's not clear how else any discarnate would know for sure what happened in earth's distant past.

What I'd like to know for certain - if anyone can access these records - is exactly what was the purpose of the dinosaurs, those absurd creatures who disappeared so abruptly in geological terms. Also whether our scientists' theories about asteroid impact wiping them out is accurate. What was their purpose in spiritual terms?
 

Storybud68

Active Member
No worries about your spelling, David. :) I don't see avdomino effect. For me it's just one issue in isolation provided the bulk of what anyone says feels essentially OK.

I'm ALWAYS, without exception, chary of heeding predictions such as the one by Silver Birch. I approach those issues that there is no single future so for EVERY predictions it's someone's best guess. That guess may be based on a vastly more well-informed perspective than we humans can ever have but it's not a fixed future that some privileged individual can see.

As for the past well I'm unsure how that works for our unseen, discarnate friends. We're told everything about everything is recorded in the so-called Akashic Records and if that's true then I would assume that those able to access these records ought to be able to see exactly what happened in our earth past time. Failing that it's not clear how else any discarnate would know for sure what happened in earth's distant past.

What I'd like to know for certain - if anyone can access these records - is exactly what was the purpose of the dinosaurs, those absurd creatures who disappeared so abruptly in geological terms. Also whether our scientists' theories about asteroid impact wiping them out is accurate. What was their purpose in spiritual terms?
Hi again mac,I'm.not sure the asteroid theory is correct for sure about the dinosaurs ,then I'm thinking maybe it was correct and its part of the bigger plan that's of course if there is a plan.As for mikey some of the answers mikey gives dont really explain the answer to the question well.take for example if I was to ask carol about mikeys past lives as in detail names, dates, places ,just general stuff of someones life, would he come back to carol with that information?I guess theres only one way to find out and I will ask in due time.
 

genewardsmith

Active Member
Thank you for that input mac,for me I tent to think that a spirit guide cannot be wrong about anything, say for example mikey was definitely wrong about the Stonehenge subject ,it then throws into doubt everything about the carol and mikey connection as to whether it's the real thing, I see it like a domino effect if one falls knocks the next one down then they all fall.excuse my spellings please

I think expecting a spirit guide to be always right about the future is asking too much. Perhaps the same is true of the distant past.
 

mac

Administrator
Hi again mac,I'm.not sure the asteroid theory is correct for sure about the dinosaurs ,then I'm thinking maybe it was correct and its part of the bigger plan that's of course if there is a plan.

Oh I'm not contending the theory is wrong or right, David - I have no idea but it sounds plausible. But somewhere, someone will know the actuality of the situation. Maybe we'll get to find out after we pass over but maybe we'll get to find out only a little more because those we're gonna meet won't be much more spiritually advanced than we are - otherwise we wouldn't be able to be with them.

I'm sure it was all part of a plan because I don't entertain for one moment that this whole universe just blinked into existence by coincidence or mistake.



As for mikey some of the answers mikey gives dont really explain the answer to the question well.take for example if I was to ask carol about mikeys past lives as in detail names, dates, places ,just general stuff of someones life, would he come back to carol with that information?I guess theres only one way to find out and I will ask in due time.

It's an interesting subject the way mediumship works, how information is communicated from discarnate through an incarnate and then to others. Asking questions of Mikey about his previous lives might or might not bring answers you could relate to but my guess woud be that he wouldn't really want to and that there really wouldn't be much point in so doing. After all how would any of us be able to relate to any of that information anyway and what possible value could it have? Past lives are just that - lives that have passed and any value is mostly for the one(s) who experienced them.

But don't be put off by me - I'm just sayin'.....
 

Storybud68

Active Member
Oh I'm not contending the theory is wrong or right, David - I have no idea but it sounds plausible. But somewhere, someone will know the actuality of the situation. Maybe we'll get to find out after we pass over but maybe we'll get to find out only a little more because those we're gonna meet won't be much more spiritually advanced than we are - otherwise we wouldn't be able to be with them.

I'm sure it was all part of a plan because I don't entertain for one moment that this whole universe just blinked into existence by coincidence or mistake.





It's an interesting subject the way mediumship works, how information is communicated from discarnate through an incarnate and then to others. Asking questions of Mikey about his previous lives might or might not bring answers you could relate to but my guess woud be that he wouldn't really want to and that there really wouldn't be much point in so doing. After all how would any of us be able to relate to any of that information anyway and what possible value could it have? Past lives are just that - lives that have passed and any value is mostly for the one(s) who experienced them.

But don't be put off by me - I'm just sayin'.....
That is true mac about mikey possibly not being happy giving out information like names ,dates,places,I suppose the way I was thinking it would just validate Carol's experiences with him more as I I'm still a bit sceptical,but like you said it's a similar thing with mediums, thank you for taking g time to write back such informative replys,Cheers.David
 

Lola Hoovler

Active Member
Baob: While it's true that Silver Birch said you would create a gulf, he also went on to say that this was because there would be a period of adjustment we would have to make. He also said that each case is different and mentioned "mitigating circumstances" etc. There are hundreds of reasons why people commit suicide. The period of adjustment could be long or short, depending on the specific person. So it sounds like he meant that the period of adjustment would temporarily separate us, but he didn't say it would be forever.
 

mac

Administrator
That is true mac about mikey possibly not being happy giving out information like names ,dates,places,I suppose the way I was thinking it would just validate Carol's experiences with him more as I I'm still a bit sceptical,but like you said it's a similar thing with mediums, thank you for taking g time to write back such informative replys,Cheers.David

You're very welcome, David - I'm always happy to respond to anyone's interest in such subjects.

On the theme of mediumship, if you're not already following Roberta's weekly weblog you might be interested to learn she's just been writing about: Evidential Mediumship - Roberta Grimes
 

mac

Administrator
Baob: While it's true that Silver Birch said you would create a gulf, he also went on to say that this was because there would be a period of adjustment we would have to make. He also said that each case is different and mentioned "mitigating circumstances" etc. There are hundreds of reasons why people commit suicide. The period of adjustment could be long or short, depending on the specific person. So it sounds like he meant that the period of adjustment would temporarily separate us, but he didn't say it would be forever.

great points, Lola :) It shows how important it is not to take things out of context.
 

baob

Active Member
Baob: While it's true that Silver Birch said you would create a gulf, he also went on to say that this was because there would be a period of adjustment we would have to make. He also said that each case is different and mentioned "mitigating circumstances" etc. There are hundreds of reasons why people commit suicide. The period of adjustment could be long or short, depending on the specific person. So it sounds like he meant that the period of adjustment would temporarily separate us, but he didn't say it would be forever.
Thanks for your response! I don't have that further explanation on my Silver Birch's book. Suicide is one of the ways ending a life and should be part of the karma. Then why does it need time to adjust? (According to Silver Birch, it is against the nature of the law). For what will they make adjustments? Some of the spirits said suicide can be considered part of the plan.
 

mac

Administrator
Which compilations are you guys reading? Various authors have compiled SB's teachings and there may be more info on a topic in one book than there is in another. So which books by which authors?
 

baob

Active Member
Which compilations are you guys reading? Various authors have compiled SB's teachings and there may be more info on a topic in one book than there is in another. So which books by which authors?
I quoted from "Teachings of Silver Birch" Edited by A. W. Austen. Some of the spirits said suicide can be considered part of the plan, which is not from Silver Birch. I mentioned it here just help to raise my question.
 

mac

Administrator
I quoted from "Teachings of Silver Birch" Edited by A. W. Austen. Some of the spirits said suicide can be considered part of the plan, which is not from Silver Birch. I mentioned it here just help to raise my question.

That's confusing. What is the source from which you've quoted "Some of the spirits....." etc?
 

Lola Hoovler

Active Member
It's confusing because lots of mediums have connected with those who committed suicide and they seem okay, and the only reason it might create a "gulf" at first may be because when a person commits suicide, they are in a depressive state and their vibrations are probably quite low. This could very well create the "gulf" Silver Birch was talking about.
 
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mac

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It's confusing because lots of mediums have connected with those who committed suicide and they seem okay, and the only reason it might create a "gulf" at first may be because when a person commits suicide, they are in a depressive state and their vibrations are probably quite low. This could very well create the "gulf" Silver Birch was talking about.
I've just discussed suicide elsewhere here. I fear there's a lot more confusion than clarity about the subject.
 

Lola Hoovler

Active Member
I think the confusion comes from the fact that there is no "one size fits all" answer to suicide due to the countless reasons why people take their own lives. Depression is probably the number 1 reason, but there are often other factors involved. How people deal with their issues after they pass is another factor, and the list goes on and on.
 

mac

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I think the confusion comes from the fact that there is no "one size fits all" answer to suicide due to the countless reasons why people take their own lives. Depression is probably the number 1 reason, but there are often other factors involved. How people deal with their issues after they pass is another factor, and the list goes on and on.

I agree with you, Lola. Perhaps what's missing from pronouncements on suicide is the compassion you're showing. I admit I don't know 'chapter and verse' on this subject but the overwhelming feeling I've gotten is one of admonishment "Don't do it or you'll be sorry." without any detailed explanation about why you'd be sorry. Even with an explanation someone struggling with profound depression is unlikely to be helped by it I suggest.

The admonishment is surely aimed at anyone contemplating suicide to escape a non medical situation they felt they couldn't deal with, individuals who have abused their fellow humankind or killed them for examples. And would it work? There's very little probability it would work - I also suggest - and any such warning about ending one's life will be heard by few and heeded by fewer....

The logical way to try to help anyone suicidal is through the sleeptime counseling by spirit helpers we hear about. We can only assume that does get done but fails so what likelihood is there that human intervention would help?
 

Lola Hoovler

Active Member
Yeah, Mac, it is unlikely that any intervention by anyone alive or dead would change a person's mind if they were hell bent on committing suicide. However, at the hospital I worked at, they had a "suicide hotline", and this has been responsible for saving many lives. However, these were the people who were contemplating suicide with no set plan at the time. Many people thinking of suicide feel that the world and the people in it have let them down and don't care about them, and basically they feel like outcasts. The hotline gives them a chance to vent and speak with a trained listener who won't say silly things like "snap out of it" or some such crap. Instead, they are given access to resources designed to assist people with suicide ideology However, someone in an extreme state of depression won't call the suicide hotline because they aren't looking for a sympathetic ear - it has gone beyond that. I find it appalling that until recently, suicide was treated as a grave sin against God etc. None of us including health care professionals know enough about the human mind, and know even less about the individual, to judge them in this manner.
 

mac

Administrator
Yeah, Mac, it is unlikely that any intervention by anyone alive or dead would change a person's mind if they were hell bent on committing suicide. However, at the hospital I worked at, they had a "suicide hotline", and this has been responsible for saving many lives. However, these were the people who were contemplating suicide with no set plan at the time. Many people thinking of suicide feel that the world and the people in it have let them down and don't care about them, and basically they feel like outcasts. The hotline gives them a chance to vent and speak with a trained listener who won't say silly things like "snap out of it" or some such crap. Instead, they are given access to resources designed to assist people with suicide ideology However, someone in an extreme state of depression won't call the suicide hotline because they aren't looking for a sympathetic ear - it has gone beyond that. I find it appalling that until recently, suicide was treated as a grave sin against God etc. None of us including health care professionals know enough about the human mind, and know even less about the individual, to judge them in this manner.

The topic of suicide is an evergreen one. I'm all for hotlines and trained counselers. If you take a look here: suicide and in the 'Resources' section you'll see the ALF approach although ALF will be seen by very few likely to end their lives.

Counseling may help in crisis situations but long-term help costs big bucks. It has to be paid for here in the US and although in the UK it's part of our free-at-the-point-of-delivery national healthcare system, resources are stretched there beyond breaking point, trained counseling staff are overworked and under-supported and many desperate for mental/emotional help and support are being let down and left struggling by themselves. For those too sick even to approach the service to ask for help all that is academic and they may eventually take their own lives.

I, too, remember growing up in an age where both suicide and homosexualism were crimes, both spoken of in hushed voices or not spoken of at all. And as you say, mainstream church used to teach (perhaps still does?) suicide was a sin against God, condemning the intent and action rather than offering support to those greatly needing it.

We can only hope in the years to come, perhaps before I have passed, the overall situation will have improved but I won't be holding my breath inbetween times. :(
 
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Lola Hoovler

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Yes, please don't hold your breath because things are getting worse in that regard, not better. There are more and more people requiring help now but for various reasons such as overpopulation, an insufficient amount of qualified people, and financial stresses (to name only a few), there are fewer people actually looking for help. To make matters worse, people are given prescription drugs that often have nasty side effects, and when they start to feel better, they stop taking them. Most of the time, this has a bad outcome

Concerning the afterlife, I still can't get myself to believe that people who commit suicide would be shunned or admonished in any way as that would be ignorance, and I am sticking to Mikey's explanation (which echoes that of Silver Birch) that a delay in their progression would likely occur due to their emotional issues. In no way am I advocating suicide, but I certainly can understand why the thought might occur to a person in certain circumstances. Some people are just much more sensitive than others
 

mac

Administrator
In no way am I advocating suicide, but I certainly can understand why the thought might occur to a person in certain circumstances. Some people are just much more sensitive than others

bang on - We each are such complex and highly-differing individuals, a subject for another discussion as to why that is, how many incarnate with a clean slate compared with those who bring their earlier woes along with them. And how much of our characters as individuals is down to our uniqueness and how much is down to genetic/family/soul group origins?
 

Lola Hoovler

Active Member
It's a combination. Many people bring their past baggage (or earlier woes) with them. Combine that with a dysfunctional family that they may be born into. and you have (as we say here in the US) an accident waiting to happen. Some act out by committing crimes and others commit suicide. Something inside them "doesn't feel right" and they are clueless as to what it is. Giving them prescription drugs and sending them on their way is not the answer, and organized religions are usually of no help. If they could be made to understand about the influence of past lives etc., this would all improve, but that ain't gonna happen, at least not in my lifetime.
 

baob

Active Member
That's confusing. What is the source from which you've quoted "Some of the spirits....." etc?
Hi mac, because of you asking, I have to find the source. Reread "My View from Heaven" by Sarina Baptista as told by J. T. Baptista. Now I realized his message makes so much sense so that I am attaching the whole chapter for your reference.
 

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Lola Hoovler

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This was a phenomenal book which I read in September. Like Mikey, Sarina's son JT was a high level spirit who died of a mysterious flu like illness and is in contact with his mother to help others..
 
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