• A resource for those seeking a greater understanding of survival and what follows death.

slowing down

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mac

janitor / administrator
Staff member
I agree that Bruce Adama holds much the same views as he used to, as do I. Speaking for myself, though, that doesn't mean that nothing on ALF has helped me. For me, it's not about anyone providing proof of an afterlife -- I truly don't think anyone else's opinion on the matter could prove anything to me. However, I have found it helpful to read about other people's experiences -- they aren't proof, but they help me nonetheless. My discussions with you have also helped, firstly because I feel heard by you, and secondly because even when you don't agree with me, you respect my feelings and thoughts and my right to have them. I also respect your feelings and thoughts on these matters, even when I don't agree, because I know you've studied them seriously for a long time now.
It's a great reassurance, bb, that you feel as you do about what I've tried to do on ALF over the years - thank you. :)
 

mac

janitor / administrator
Staff member
I really don't understand why this site has a rule against discussing religion, when it is a topic so intricately connected to the topic of the afterlife, at least for most people. I understand not allowing preaching and proselytizing, and I agree that those things should not be allowed here, but I do think that reasonable discussion of the topic among reasonable adults should be allowed.
The first point must be that this website is not my own and I need to feel I can support and justify whatever changes I make on ALF. Although over the years its founder and I have disagreed frequently (and sometimes acrimoniously) over discussion points I do still agree with her "no politics, no religion" rule. That's because I remember how heated and divisive they were and most importantly NEITHER ONE has any true bearing on the actual afterlife position.

My personal, non-admin. position, is that this website is not a place for general discussions about non-afterlife subjects. It's gotta be about a decade since the discussion involving the website founder, the then website administrator and any interested registered members about the 'off-topic' forum. There didn't use to be one and a vote was held over whether members wanted one. I voted against it but the overall vote was 'for' hence the new forum was created.

I would need to look back at threads to discover exactly when the no-religion, no-politics rule was brought in but I do remember some very unpleasant 'discussions' - arguments! - about politics. Even comparatively recently the founder was an avid politics-poster but had earlier discontinued writing about religion! I can't recall whether religion discussions generated the same degree of heat but as long as I'm left to administrate this website I am unpersuaded me that either of those two subjects should be allowed back.

As regulars will know we do still have an off-topic section and there are categories and forums where non-afterlife discussions can be held on a wide range of topics - just not THOSE two! :) ;) lol!
 
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bluebird

Significant Contributor
Oh, I don't blame you for the "no religious discussion" rule, mac. I know that was Roberta's decision -- I just disagree with it.

I do remember that there were sometimes arguments when the topic of religion was discussed, but to the best of my knowledge the main troll is no longer here on ALF, and I think that those of us who do still frequent ALF would be able to actually discuss the topic, rather than argue about it. I realize that my view on the matter won't change the site rule, I'm just stating my position.
 

mac

janitor / administrator
Staff member
Oh, I agree, I’m fairly certain God won’t apologize to me. But that’s fine, because that just shows it avoids accountability, which is pretty cowardly. It avoids justice. See, that’s one of the things I’ve heard about that I don’t like… I’ve read NDE accounts where people say that once they’re free of their bodies or in that “place” where the life review happens, they don’t have their Earthly anger, or any real emotion of animosity. IMO, that’s a safeguard God built in to avoid having to face the injustices it’s imposed on us in life. Without anger, we can’t do anything about it. I’m perfectly willing to accept that we agree to certain challenges in life… I got no problem with that. But to constantly… CONSTANTLY… have one live in discomfort and pain. Not one second of my life goes by that I’m not in some kind of physical pain. I may not show it, because I’ve learned to mask it, but I’m always in pain. Always. No reason to deny me the ONE thing I’d like on this Earth, which is a wife. My entire youth I lacked confidence, and now that I have it, my body fails me. I believe in accountability, and I’m gonna hold God accountable.

if I decide to enter the afterlife realm, then yes, I want a do-over on God’s tab… I want the life I wanted, in a 100% EARTH-physical environment, in a 100% EARTH-physical body. And once that life has run it’s course, IF I ever choose to incarnate again, it’s going to be by MY conditions only, as I will plan out the next life down to the tiniest detail. It will be a life free of pain and challenge, and a life abundant of pleasure.
Like bb I'm sad to hear you're in such pain day on day and I can see how that influences what you feel about God but flicking through postings from way back (as I have) when this place was still young, I think you still had it in for God and/or the system(s) you blame God for. I feel for you but I can't relate your suffering to any kind of God action or inaction. I hope that doesn't sound dispassionate but that's my stance.

Much is attributed to so-called life plans before incarnation and past-life reviews after death and in my view that's misguided. I am yet to be persuaded that life-plans are any more than that - plans. They are not gilt-edged contracts with some entity answerable when they don't work out as planned. At best they are plans which work out more-or-less as one would wish but at worst can have little resemblance.

If folk - this is not about only member Bruce - think they can make God responsible for whatever doesn't work out etc. then my response is go for it. If it makes things better for you then great. But in my mind God is remote from any such responsibility or even its consideration and there is no mechanism whereby God feels anything about anybody anywhere.

All the "God is love." is just fine for me but it's not love the way we humans know it.
 

mac

janitor / administrator
Staff member
Oh, I don't blame you for the "no religious discussion" rule, mac. I know that was Roberta's decision -- I just disagree with it.

I do remember that there were sometimes arguments when the topic of religion was discussed, but to the best of my knowledge the main troll is no longer here on ALF, and I think that those of us who do still frequent ALF would be able to actually discuss the topic, rather than argue about it. I realize that my view on the matter won't change the site rule, I'm just stating my position.
I knew you understood my stance, bb, but I'm always prepared to offer detailed explanation if only for others who may come-looking at ALF's pages. others? yeah, right! ;) lol, LOL

And although I disagree with the founder over many, many issues, on this particular one we're singing from the same hymn sheet. :)
 

mac

janitor / administrator
Staff member
..... and I think that those of us who do still frequent ALF would be able to actually discuss the topic, rather than argue about it. I realize that my view on the matter won't change the site rule, I'm just stating my position.
You are very likely right, bb, especially because there are few actual contributors here anyway! lol ;) :)

Thee, me and an occasional other member such as Josh or Ruby is about the lot right now. Bruce calls by infrequently so that's about 5 registered members at a quick tally - maximum. Ain't many of us to fall out with one another! lol, lol, lol....... But I still ain't changing anything..... lol :)
 

mac

janitor / administrator
Staff member
With acknowledgement and thanks to Vic Zammit, taken from his website today, the wisdom of the master, Silver Birch: "We are not evangelists conducting mass meetings and capturing people in the height of emotionalism. We labour to ensure that individuals become convinced, one at a time, that they are satisfied with the evidence they have received that they will continue after physical death, and they are also satisfied that what we have to teach neither insults their intelligence not makes their reason revolt."

More Philosophy of Silver Birch p.143.


I try my poor best to achieve similar humble aims.
 
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BruceAdama

Occasional Contributor
Well, it’s kind of been established that God can’t handle any opposing viewpoint or criticism… I mean, one could probably just ask Lucifer about that… God isn’t perfect, and does make mistakes. Otherwise, we’d have 100% free will in the afterlife, as we do on Earth. But with that would come the ability to feel anger, or to question God. From what I understand, it’s not really possible for souls to feel anything “dark” beyond a certain point, as they don’t have total free will… or if they do, they begin to drift closer to the lower levels. Again, a means of control to avoid accountability. IIRC, the film Nosso Lar touched on that a bit… the emotion aspect.

I’ll agree that in SOME respects, the veil is useful, such as preventing us from knowing how or when we’ll die. BUT… on the flip side of that, there’s something to be said for being able to control one’s death. Personally, I, myself do NOT want to die in any way that involves drowning or suffocation. That kind of death absolutely terrifies me, which is why I’m fairly certain that’s what awaits me. I want to go peacefully, preferably in my sleep, as simply as if I was in a dream. I don’t want a death with any pain. I’d prefer not to see it coming, and want it to be instant.
 

mac

janitor / administrator
Staff member
You speak about God - and now Lucifer, presumably your devil - as if they are individuals with failings and have accountabilities to you. lol :)

How folk feel after they have left this world may be somewhat more nuanced than you're allowing for but that's a conversation for a different thread. ;)

I don't know with whom you think you're agreeing concerning this so-called veil. It sure ain't me because I made it clear how I view the veil idea and preventing us knowing about our own death wasn't any part of what I said.
 

mac

janitor / administrator
Staff member
Any road up mi duck I'm gonna close this thread here as it's wandered WAY off-topic and is now hopelessly inappropriate for the 'News and Announcements' category this forum's nested under. There are suitable forums to continue the discussion should anyone wish.
 
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