slowing down

[bluebird]

I'm finding my enthusiasm for explaining anything is fading, bb. And my enthusiasm for the things that used to inspire my approach is waning too. I'm firmly of the view nowadays that near-death experience accounts are probably much more helpful to seekers of understanding of afterlife matters than the stuff I've wittered on about for years.

That's a fundamental shift in my approach.

While I do find NDE accounts helpful, I find your "wittering" helpful as well. [and thanks for introducing me to a new word!]

 

[bluebird]

Yeah, that’s pretty much the only bad aspect to the choice… being without a physical body. I love our physical bodies, I just hate MY body. But the trappings that come with are great. Just unfortunate for God (or whatever you want to call it) that it’s only chosen to expose me to the exquisite spectrum of pain and suffering that one can offer, rather than the alternative. But that aside, if I can’t find enjoyment here in this world (assuming I do chose to remain here) I figure there’s a whole universe here I’d love to explore… the vastness of space, untold billions of worlds, that can all be safely explored without the limits of a human body or the constraints of a human lifespan. If God, or whatever power there is, is willing to first, apologize to me upon my arrival, and, second, give me EVERYTHING I want in the next realm, meaning a 100% Earth-physical existence and environment, with the life I was meant to have, then, I’d transition to the next realm. But from what’s been said here about the nature of the afterlife realm, that’s not possible. I wager I’d even be happier in one of the lower realms than the afterlife one, as they’re far closer to the Earth realm.

On the one hand, I would be ok with existing without having a physical body -- that way there is no physical pain, no disease, no accidents, etc. And I have little desire to remain on earth once I die (assuming I continue to exist at all), though I would like to visit earth now and then. At the same time, it would be great to be able to have (a healthy and idealized form of) my body when I want it -- to make love with my husband, to pet our cats, to eat, to take walks through the woods and on the beach, to read books, etc. I guess the best thing would be to be able to exist in my body when I want to, and to exist without it when I want to.

I don't think god, if there is one, will apologize to you and give you everything you want -- I don't believe it will do that for me, either (assuming it exists at all). Mainly I feel this way because if it were the sort of being to care about what I feel and what I want, it wouldn't have allowed my husband to die when he did.

So if I'm understanding you correctly -- assuming there's an afterlife, then ideally you would like to go there when you die, as long as god (if there is one) is willing to apologize to you and let you have in that afterlife the life you were meant to have here. Is that right? If so, I get it, and I hope that's what happens for you.

 

[mac]

While I do find NDE accounts helpful, I find your "wittering" helpful as well. [and thanks for introducing me to a new word!]

thank you - I'm heartened reading both remarks.

 

[mac]

Well this is a little embarrassing. I started this thread to signal that I wouldn't be around or taking part here as often as in the past - only to find myself engaged in new conversation in that very thread! Not as planned.

Having become involved however I got to thinking (as I sometimes still do) and reflecting on the way things here used to be. It's perhaps understandable that a couple of original members are still around even though by now there may be little prospect of finding anything helpful to either one. I took a look back at old postings and found (the member who posts as) Bruce Adama saying very similar things to those he says now. Based on more recent contact with bluebird I think her approach is little changed also. Apparently nothing on ALF has been able to help significantly. By contrast, perhaps other once-regular members have moved away because they did find something to satisfy their needs, at least in part. Or maybe they just gave up searching.

In respect of the website's title 'Afterlife Forums' my view is still that there's an abundance of information in our forum threads about the state-of-being we non-doubters accept as the next stage of life. Whether anyone is persuaded - even by such an abundance - is up to the individual but beyond those fundamentals there is little on offer. We can't, and don't try to, offer guidance about this thing most refer to as God. Nor do we have anything to say about any presumed interaction/relationship with Him/Her/it. I think the reality of any such website is that NONE has any true guidance that's based on evidence. Each individual is left with personal belief, disbelief or agnosticism about what's said. Beyond that will be found established religions and beliefs but conversations about those are 'no-no' here.

That's not to say I don't have a personal view but my view is more about what God isn't than what it is.

 

[BruceAdama]

Oh, I agree, I’m fairly certain God won’t apologize to me. But that’s fine, because that just shows it avoids accountability, which is pretty cowardly. It avoids justice. See, that’s one of the things I’ve heard about that I don’t like… I’ve read NDE accounts where people say that once they’re free of their bodies or in that “place” where the life review happens, they don’t have their Earthly anger, or any real emotion of animosity. IMO, that’s a safeguard God built in to avoid having to face the injustices it’s imposed on us in life. Without anger, we can’t do anything about it. I’m perfectly willing to accept that we agree to certain challenges in life… I got no problem with that. But to constantly… CONSTANTLY… have one live in discomfort and pain. Not one second of my life goes by that I’m not in some kind of physical pain. I may not show it, because I’ve learned to mask it, but I’m always in pain. Always. No reason to deny me the ONE thing I’d like on this Earth, which is a wife. My entire youth I lacked confidence, and now that I have it, my body fails me. I believe in accountability, and I’m gonna hold God accountable.

if I decide to enter the afterlife realm, then yes, I want a do-over on God’s tab… I want the life I wanted, in a 100% EARTH-physical environment, in a 100% EARTH-physical body. And once that life has run it’s course, IF I ever choose to incarnate again, it’s going to be by MY conditions only, as I will plan out the next life down to the tiniest detail. It will be a life free of pain and challenge, and a life abundant of pleasure.

 

[BruceAdama]

Mac, the forum IS useful. It just boils down to the simple fact that we just don’t know for sure until we’re actually dead… and then we can’t really share any information because of the stupid veil. I still wish I could find that old post or thread I mentioned back when… someone here was talking about the other planets in the universe, and how they are also schools like the Earth, but the Earth is the toughest. In that post, mention was made of how the physical bodies on those other planets are “simpler”. I really wish I knew who posted that, because I’d like to know more about that aspect.

 

[bluebird]

Well this is a little embarrassing. I started this thread to signal that I wouldn't be around or taking part here as often as in the past - only to find myself engaged in new conversation in that very thread! Not as planned.

Having become involved however I got to thinking (as I sometimes still do) and reflecting on the way things here used to be. It's perhaps understandable that a couple of original members are still around even though by now there may be little prospect of finding anything helpful to either one. I took a look back at old postings and found (the member who posts as) Bruce Adama saying very similar things to those he says now. Based on more recent contact with bluebird I think her approach is little changed also. Apparently nothing on ALF has been able to help significantly. By contrast, perhaps other once-regular members have moved away because they did find something to satisfy their needs, at least in part. Or maybe they just gave up searching.

In respect of the website's title 'Afterlife Forums' my view is still that there's an abundance of information in our forum threads about the state-of-being we non-doubters accept as the next stage of life. Whether anyone is persuaded - even by such an abundance - is up to the individual but beyond those fundamentals there is little on offer. We can't, and don't try to, offer guidance about this thing most refer to as God. Nor do we have anything to say about any presumed interaction/relationship with Him/Her/it. I think the reality of any such website is that NONE has any true guidance that's based on evidence. Each individual is left with personal belief, disbelief or agnosticism about what's said. Beyond that will be found established religions and beliefs but conversations about those are 'no-no' here.

That's not to say I don't have a personal view but my view is more about what God isn't than what it is.

I agree that Bruce Adama holds much the same views as he used to, as do I. Speaking for myself, though, that doesn't mean that nothing on ALF has helped me. For me, it's not about anyone providing proof of an afterlife -- I truly don't think anyone else's opinion on the matter could prove anything to me. However, I have found it helpful to read about other people's experiences -- they aren't proof, but they help me nonetheless. My discussions with you have also helped, firstly because I feel heard by you, and secondly because even when you don't agree with me, you respect my feelings and thoughts and my right to have them. I also respect your feelings and thoughts on these matters, even when I don't agree, because I know you've studied them seriously for a long time now.

As far as "god" -- to me, the possible existence of an afterlife and the possible existence of a god are closely linked. I don't know if they both exist, or neither, or only one (and which one), but if there is an afterlife it seems to be quite possible (probable?) that a creator made it, along with everything else. Maybe not, but in any case the two ideas live next door to each other in my head, at least. I really don't understand why this site has a rule against discussing religion, when it is a topic so intricately connected to the topic of the afterlife, at least for most people. I understand not allowing preaching and proselytizing, and I agree that those things should not be allowed here, but I do think that reasonable discussion of the topic among reasonable adults should be allowed.

 

[bluebird]

Oh, I agree, I’m fairly certain God won’t apologize to me. But that’s fine, because that just shows it avoids accountability, which is pretty cowardly. It avoids justice. See, that’s one of the things I’ve heard about that I don’t like… I’ve read NDE accounts where people say that once they’re free of their bodies or in that “place” where the life review happens, they don’t have their Earthly anger, or any real emotion of animosity. IMO, that’s a safeguard God built in to avoid having to face the injustices it’s imposed on us in life. Without anger, we can’t do anything about it. I’m perfectly willing to accept that we agree to certain challenges in life… I got no problem with that. But to constantly… CONSTANTLY… have one live in discomfort and pain. Not one second of my life goes by that I’m not in some kind of physical pain. I may not show it, because I’ve learned to mask it, but I’m always in pain. Always. No reason to deny me the ONE thing I’d like on this Earth, which is a wife. My entire youth I lacked confidence, and now that I have it, my body fails me. I believe in accountability, and I’m gonna hold God accountable.

if I decide to enter the afterlife realm, then yes, I want a do-over on God’s tab… I want the life I wanted, in a 100% EARTH-physical environment, in a 100% EARTH-physical body. And once that life has run it’s course, IF I ever choose to incarnate again, it’s going to be by MY conditions only, as I will plan out the next life down to the tiniest detail. It will be a life free of pain and challenge, and a life abundant of pleasure.

Hm....your idea about lack of anger on our part, once dead, being god's failsafe; I had never considered that. I don't know if it's actually the case or not, but it is an interesting proposition.

I'm sorry you're always in pain. And I'm sorry you don't have a wife, but that doesn't mean that you never will -- I didn't meet my husband until I was 32 years old, and I really never dated before I met him. He is the only person I have (soulmate/romantically) loved. That can happen for you too.

I don't know if the afterlife exists, but if it does a lot of people believe that you can have and be whatever you want there. If that's the case, then you would be able to live in exactly the body and environment that you want to.

 

[mac]

Mac, the forum IS useful. It just boils down to the simple fact that we just don’t know for sure until we’re actually dead… and then we can’t really share any information because of the stupid veil.

I'm heartened to 'hear' you say this website is useful but on the points in your second sentence my response is that actually we have heard from those we say are dead about at least some of the afterlife stuff. Information on some of what happens is shared and has been shared and recorded for a very long time.

The so-called veil that you hate so much (the way you hate God or rather your notion of it) is a simple representation using a physical object we can easily relate to. There is no actual veil or any other form of barrier save for the barrier that most of us can not 'pick up' in this dimension what's sent from the next. But some can and they do pick it up and relay it to the rest of us, myself just as much as anyone else.

If scientific or mathematical proof is all you'll consider then you might as well give up now. I can say only what I've said times many. You ain't gonna get any such proof but if you are prepared to consider the abundant evidence that the so-called afterlife is real, then you should find reassurance.

I'm not here to try to convince or persuade anyone about anything but I have always been prepared to try to help and/or point out a direction that might appeal to your reason.

 

[mac]

I still wish I could find that old post or thread I mentioned back when… someone here was talking about the other planets in the universe, and how they are also schools like the Earth, but the Earth is the toughest. In that post, mention was made of how the physical bodies on those other planets are “simpler”. I really wish I knew who posted that, because I’d like to know more about that aspect.

I can't be sure but it's likely Mikey Morgan had something to say.

You can look back at your old postings but the reality is that whoever talked about the aspect you'd now like to re-visit is almost certainly no longer active on ALF. There's no more than a handful of members ever post here now although some may check in periodically for a look-see if anything's happening. You can hunt out a particular subject using the search bot at the top right of any page.

Over nearly 40 years 'in the spooks' I've learned about various subjects but often I'm unsure who communicated the details. Lives elsewhere is one such subject but in general what I retain comes from individuals widely regarded as knowledgeable and authoritative spirit teachers and guides.

There's stuff mentioned here on ALF that came from sources I'd be very chary about - you guys probably say "leery". And despite my having cleared much of it away there are likely still to be odd turds around left from the bulk crap posted by a certain troll. If it's that you are remembering then even an advanced search won't reveal much - I hope!