slowing down

bluebird

Major Contributor
Holy crap, I'm sorry you had those health issues! I had no idea. I hope at least your health is better now.

As for the rest, I get it -- I'm completely dissatisfied and unhappy with my life, too.

If there is an afterlife and a life review, I fully support you in your desire not to participate in such a review, and I believe it should be your choice. I think for me I feel that if I have any way to make some sense of my life, I'd like to do that.
 

mac

janitor / administrator
I know something about the lives of both of you and as a regular human being (just about!) I feel bad for the both of you.

I won't say I understand how you both feel because I don't. You both know my own approach concerning life now and life beyond this one; we all come at things from differing directions and we share very little. Yet we are sharing by coming to ALF (occasionally) so maybe I should again share my own thoughts? I don't suppose for one moment they will help but I'll 'say' them anyway. Assuming you both accept there's something beyond this dimension - and you apparently do else you wouldn't be here now - you also appear to accept there's some kind of point to both. But you guys lay blame for events at the feet of the head honcho whereas I don't.

I'm totally confident none of us understands what God actually is. In my own case I have no relationship with it and even use the impersonal pronoun. There's no "Him" or "He" for me because I don't relate to it the way I relate to real people. Neither do I hold this God thing responsible for anything. I do acknowledge, though, how you guys feel and I feel sorry for the both of you. However I don't think any amount of afterlife studies or discussions are likely to help and I'm guessing you'd agree with me.

Moving on though (just in case anyone else reads this thread) to the way the so-called afterlife functions, there's no requirement for a so-called life review and neither is there one for a further incarnation. If you don't want to come back nobody's gonna force you to - period. And if you still hate and blame this thing God after you die nobody's gonna try to stop you hating it. I expect others who are dead feel as you do but God didn't force you to be here now and it won't force you to go anywhere - or do anything - after you have died.

If you want to keep hating God though and if you want to stay in this world then you'll be free to do just that. I gotta ask seriously, though, whether you'd seriously want to stay here on your own or with others as unhappy as yourself. You don't like it now so why do you think you would you like it after you'd died? Do you think life here on earth when yer dead would be everything it's not while you're still alive?
 

mac

janitor / administrator
You’re mostly on target. I have nothing but disdain for the veil, and yes, I have absolutely no intention of participating in any life review. If that’s a condition for crossing over, I guess I’m staying here.
The so-called life review is NOT a condition for "crossing over" and a refusal is not a way you can avoid it. ;)

The crossing-over is simply changing state from living in-the-body to living outside of it. Where you go from there depends on a number of things but if you're wanting to stay in this dimension you're gonna have to take measures to achieve that because it's not how things are intended to work.

For the benefit of those who may read this thread sometime in the future, after death our spirit selves are free from the body and from life here in this physical dimension. (You're a regular Bruce and I know you'll have heard this many times already.) Most make the transition (we're told) with little need for much help but for a comparatively small number things don't go smoothly and for whatever reason they end up somewhere in between here and 'over-there'. That's not desirable so deliberately ending up in that 'place' isn't something over which we usually have control.

Reluctance - refusal - to undertake a look-see at what happened in your life doesn't mean you'll necessarily end up in this 'no-man's-land' between dimensions. Potentially adopting a resolute, mental rejection of the normal transition principle might just land you where you want to be - here rather than over-there - but I'm not confident. That's assuming you want to stay here rather than travel 'over-there'. :)
 

bluebird

Major Contributor
mac,

I appreciate your post and your insights.

I have no desire to stay here on earth or in this realm of existence. I fervently hope there is an afterlife, and I want to go there when I die -- as long as my beloved husband (and eventually my other loved ones) are there. Basically, I just want to be in a safe, peaceful, joyful place with my husband and the rest of my family and other loved ones, wherever that may be.

Also, I don't blame god for everything. I am agnostic regarding whether such a being exists at all, for starters. If it does, then I do blame it for some things. I do blame it, in part, for my husband's death. I am well aware that there are many factors that played into his death, including him not taking care of himself the way he should have, but come on -- for him to die one week to the day after our wedding? Tell me that isn't a cosmic bad joke! If there is a god, and if my husband's heart attack was unavoidable, then at least god could have made it a smaller heart attack from which he could have recovered.

Beyond my personal life, though -- if god created the universe, including this world, and the laws by which said universe operates, then it created cancer and plague and other illnesses and natural disasters, and I do blame it for that. Things like child abuse and rape and murder are somewhat more difficult to lay at god's metaphorical feet, since those things are also dependent on the free will of humans, but I do think there must have been some way wherein god could have created free will but also implemented some kind of fail-safe that would kick in before real damage was done to others as a result of the free will of some.

And if god did not really have control over the creation of all of those things, or if it did not really create the universe, then as far as I'm concerned it is not "god", as in my opinion creation, determination, free will, and the power to control those things are the hallmarks of god -- anything less is just some minor cosmic force.
 

mac

janitor / administrator
If it weren't for the confidence I have that there is a useful reason for our being here I would despair over what happens in life even more than I do despair. I despair at what humans do to one another and I despair at what we do to this world and its other inhabitants. And I wonder if all that's happened since humankind emerged into this world was foreseen or is at least considered an acceptable outcome. My biggest puzzler is, though, why after all the time human beings have struggled through this world are they still struggling in life.

Mostly I don't dwell on these issues but they're never far from my thoughts.
 

bluebird

Major Contributor
I'm right there with you, as far as the despair. If there is a god and if it foresaw the shitshow this world would and has become, then in my opinion it made a mistake in allowing it to progress past amoeba, or in not changing some things in order for things to progress differently and in a better way.

Could you please clarify what you mean by this: "My biggest puzzler is, though, why after all the time human beings have struggled through this world are they still struggling in life." Genuinely asking, as it's not clear to me what you mean by this.
 

mac

janitor / administrator
I'm not confident I could give a succinct, non-boring explanation, bb. Inside me I know what I mean but setting it down in words is hard.
 

mac

janitor / administrator
I'm finding my enthusiasm for explaining anything is fading, bb. And my enthusiasm for the things that used to inspire my approach is waning too. I'm firmly of the view nowadays that near-death experience accounts are probably much more helpful to seekers of understanding of afterlife matters than the stuff I've wittered on about for years.

That's a fundamental shift in my approach.
 

BruceAdama

Established Member
The crossing-over is simply changing state from living in-the-body to living outside of it. Where you go from there depends on a number of things but if you're wanting to stay in this dimension you're gonna have to take measures to achieve that because it's not how things are intended to work.

Yeah, that’s pretty much the only bad aspect to the choice… being without a physical body. I love our physical bodies, I just hate MY body. But the trappings that come with are great. Just unfortunate for God (or whatever you want to call it) that it’s only chosen to expose me to the exquisite spectrum of pain and suffering that one can offer, rather than the alternative. But that aside, if I can’t find enjoyment here in this world (assuming I do chose to remain here) I figure there’s a whole universe here I’d love to explore… the vastness of space, untold billions of worlds, that can all be safely explored without the limits of a human body or the constraints of a human lifespan. If God, or whatever power there is, is willing to first, apologize to me upon my arrival, and, second, give me EVERYTHING I want in the next realm, meaning a 100% Earth-physical existence and environment, with the life I was meant to have, then, I’d transition to the next realm. But from what’s been said here about the nature of the afterlife realm, that’s not possible. I wager I’d even be happier in one of the lower realms than the afterlife one, as they’re far closer to the Earth realm.
 
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