Signs And Messages 'from The Other Side'

mareke

New Member
Re the bolded text above am I right thinking the assertion is that while not being compelled to reincarnate on earth we are in effect required to live again elsewhere? That's not my understanding of the situation.

From what I recall of the teaching that guides my thinking we may choose to experience lives elsewhere rather than having only this world where we can choose to live a further life should we decide that's what we want.

The essential part is not where but whether we choose to reincarnate. I wonder if the ideas of mortals are coloring communicated guidance, the notion of numbered levels being one of them?
My understanding is that our free will is honoured so we aren't required to reincarnate anywhere. If we have done evil however and refuse to acknowledge it and agree to pay the karmic debt arising out of it then by default we wind up living in one of the lower regions with our own kind and can if we choose ignore all attempts to help us evolve out of our misery.

While there's no overt pressure to reincarnate the way the system is set up if after watching others move on to higher levels of awareness we decide we don't want to be left behind and with reincarnation being the quickest way to evolve spiritually we may then decide to reincarnate of our own volition. According to Gina Lake there's a huge number of souls wanting to reincarnate on earth for the growth opportunities that earth offers. While the will to grow may vary between souls it appears to be embedded in us due to the memory of the initial dilemma that the creator 'All that is' wrestled with explained in the quote below from Seth. I've bolded the part that explains why we have a will to grow.

"He is not human in your terms, though he passed through human stages; and here the Buddhist myth comes closest to approximating reality. He is not one individual, but an energy gestalt.*

* Gestalt = a pattern of individual parts so unified as a whole that it cannot be described merely as a sum of its parts

This absolute, ever-expanding, instantaneous psychic gestalt, which you call God if you prefer, is so secure in its existence that it can constantly break itself down and rebuild itself.

Its energy is so unbelievable, that it does indeed form all universes; and because its energy is within and behind all universes, systems and fields, it is indeed aware of each sparrow that falls, for it is each sparrow that falls.

Now - and this will seem like a contradiction in terms - there is nonbeing. It is a state of, not of nothingness, but a state in which probabilities and possibilities are known and anticipated but blocked from expression.

Dimly, through what you would call history, hardly remembered, there was such a state. It was a state of agony in which the powers of creativity and existence were known, but the ways to produce them were not known.

This is the lesson that All That Is had to learn, and that could not be taught. This is the agony from which creativity originally was drawn, and its reflection is still seen.

Some of this discussion is bound to be distorted, because I must explain it to you in terms of time as you understand it. So I will speak for your benefit, of some indescribably distant past in which these events occurred.

All That Is retains memory of that state, and it serves as a constant impetus - in your terms - toward renewed creativity. Each self (you), as a part of All That Is therefore also retains memory of that state. It is for this reason that each minute consciousness is endowed with the impetus toward survival, change, development, and creativity. It is not enough that All That Is as a primary energy gestalt, desires further being, but each portion of It (you) also carries this determination.

Yet the agony itself was used as the means, and the agony itself served as the impetus, strong enough so that All That Is initiated within Itself the means to be.

If - and this is impossible - all portions but the most minute last 'unit' of All That Is were destroyed, All That Is would continue, for within the smallest portion is the innate knowledge of the whole. All That Is protects Itself, therefore, and all that It has and is and will create.

When I speak of All That Is, you must understand my position within It. All That Is knows no other. This does not mean that there may not be more to know. It does not know whether or not other psychic gestalts like It exist. It is not aware of them if they do exist. It is constantly searching. It knows that something else existed before Its own primary dilemma when it could not express itself.

It is conceivable then, that It has evolved, in your terms, so long ago It has forgotten Its origin, that It has developed from still another Primary which has - again, in your terms - long since gone Its way. So there are answers that I cannot give you, for they are not known anywhere in the system in which we have our existence. We do know that within this system of our All That Is, creation continues and developments are never still.

The first state of agonized search for existence may have represented the birth throes of All That Is as we know it.

In other words, All That Is existed in a state of being, but without the means to find expression for Its being. This was the state of agony of which I spoke.

The agony and the desire to create represented Its proof of Its own reality. The feelings, in other words, were adequate proof to All That Is that It was.

At first, in your terms, all of probable reality existed as nebulous dreams within the consciousness of All That Is. Later, the unspecific nature of these 'dreams' grew more particular and vivid. The dreams became recognizable one from the other until they drew the conscious notice of All That Is. And with curiosity and yearning, All That Is paid more attention to Its own dreams.

It then purposely gave them more and more detail, and yearned toward this diversity and grew to love that which was not yet separate from Itself. It gave consciousness and imagination to personalities (us) while they were still within Its dreams. They also yearned to be actual.

Potential individuals, in your terms, had consciousness before the beginning or any beginning as you know it, then. They (you) clamored to be released into actuality, and All That Is, in unspeakable sympathy, sought within Itself for the means.

His was in your terms a primary cosmic dilemma, and one with which It wrestled until All That Is was completely involved and enveloped within that cosmic problem.

Had It not solved it, All That Is would have faced insanity, and there would have been, literally, a reality without reason and a universe run wild.

The pressure came from two sources: from the conscious but still probable individual selves who found themselves alive in God's dream, and from the God who yearned to release them.

This, then, is the dilemma of any primary pyramid gestalt: It creates reality. It also recognized within each consciousness (you) the massive potential that existed. The means, then, came to It. It must release the creatures and probabilities from Its dream.

To do so would give them actuality. However, it also meant 'losing' a portion of Its own consciousness, for it was within that portion that they were held in bondage. All That Is had to let go.

With love and longing It let go that portion of Itself, and they (souls) were free. The psychic energy exploded in a flash of creation (big bang).

All That Is, therefore, 'lost' a portion of Itself in that creative endeavor. All That Is loves all that is has created down to the least, for It realizes the dearness and uniqueness of each consciousness which has been wrest from such a state and at such a price.

It, of Itself and from this state, has given life to infinities of possibilities. From Its agony, It found the way to burst forth in freedom, through expression, and in so doing gave existence to individualized consciousnesses. Therefore It is rightfully jubilant.

Yet all individuals remember their source, and now dream of All That Is as All That Is once dreamed of them. And they yearn toward that immense source... and yearn to set It free and give It actuality through their own creations.

These connections between you and All That Is can never be severed, and Its awareness is so delicate and focused that Its attention is indeed directed with a prime creator's love to each consciousness."

At the end of this session with Jane Roberts, Seth said that his words should be read many times, "for there are implications that are not obvious." Seth also said...


"Even this overall pyramid gestalt (God) is not static. Most of your God concepts deal with a static God, and here is one of your main theological difficulties. The awareness and experience of this gestalt changes and grows. There is no static God. When you say 'This is God,' then God is already something else."

"All portions of All That Is are constantly changing, enfolding and unfolding. All That Is, seeking to know Itself, constantly creates new versions of Itself. For this seeking Itself is a creative activity and is the core of all action."
 

mac

janitor
My understanding is that our free will is honoured so we aren't required to reincarnate anywhere. If we have done evil however and refuse to acknowledge it and agree to pay the karmic debt arising out of it then by default we wind up living in one of the lower regions with our own kind and can if we choose ignore all attempts to help us evolve out of our misery.

While there's no overt pressure to reincarnate the way the system is set up if after watching others move on to higher levels of awareness we decide we don't want to be left behind and with reincarnation being the quickest way to evolve spiritually we may then decide to reincarnate of our own volition. According to Gina Lake there's a huge number of souls wanting to reincarnate on earth for the growth opportunities that earth offers. While the will to grow may vary between souls it appears to be embedded in us due to the memory of the initial dilemma that the creator 'All that is' wrestled with explained in the quote below from Seth. I've bolded the part that explains why we have a will to grow.
I think we're struggling - well I certainly am struggling - over the words you're using. Having said that I don't know if they are actually YOUR words or you're quoting someone else's..... May I explain?

You say that freewill is "honoured". I see freewill as one's right, something neither to be honoured nor dishonoured. It is one's freedom - in the case under consideration - to make one's own choice whether to reincarnate without anyone or anything constraining that choice. It's not something that's 'honoured' so much as something that isn't able to be denied.

Then you go on to speak about "karmic debt" which means absolutely nothing to me - a debt owed to whom or what? These are the new ageism's I find hard to accommodate. Then you say by default we wind up living in one of the lower regions if we don't do what's expected of us. No so, I say. I may have it all wrong but your take sounds like retribution to me - pay your debt or you'll be slung in jail!

I have no idea who Gina Lake is who you have quoted but my guess is she's a mortal. It seems to me what I'm hearing in those words are the ideas/beliefs of a mortal rather than solely the guidance coming from a spiritually-evolved discarnate.
 

mac

janitor
Whatever is being told in bold above I find an awfully difficult read. We each have our personal preference but mine is for simplicity and clarity of expression, something I don't need to read and re-read to try to get it to make sense.
 

mareke

New Member
Whatever is being told in bold above I find an awfully difficult read. We each have our personal preference but mine is for simplicity and clarity of expression, something I don't need to read and re-read to try to get it to make sense.
There are different levels of sophistication to material communicated by different mediums so that anyone interested in learning about the spirit world can read from sources that suit them. There is something for everybody out there. I don't have any trouble understanding most of the Seth material. The quote from Seth was an attempt to explain what the creator is. Seth extrapolated backwards to arrive at his explanation of the source which he calls 'All that is' and which religions call God. It makes sense to me and is the best attempt at explaining what the source is that I've seen.

The Silver Birch material which you like Mac consists of more general easier to understand material that suits a wider range of people than the Seth material.

Some of the Seth material is dubious. Seth for instance claims that the Yeti are real. He also claimed that there was an advanced civilisation on earth called Lumania with the Lumanians co-existing with early humans and living underground while observing early humans. He claims that some Lumanians left earth to live elsewhere in the physical universe. The nearest inhabitable planet would be light years away so it couldn't be true however it could be true in the sense that Mikey has revealed the existence of fairies etc in non-physical dimensions.

The Seth material is the most sophisticated material I've seen communicated through a medium. Jane Roberts made a modest amount of money from her books. She didn't seek fame or fortune. She died after lying in a hospital bed for a year and a half with her medical bills being paid for by donations. Ironically while she lay dying in her hospital bed she channeled her last Seth book 'The Way Toward Health'. I found it a good read. She focused so much on channeling Seth that she neglected her physical health. It's a pity she never got to channel the book that Seth was ready to do about Jesus. It might have been better however that it wasn't channeled. Many Christians are so heavily invested in a literal interpretation of the bible stories about Jesus life being true that Jane Robert's life might have been in danger had Seth given his perspective on Jesus. Some of what Jane Roberts communicated was done in front of an audience in weekly sessions she held. It couldn't have been made up. No con artist is that good.
 
Last edited:

baob

Active Member
I’m pretty sure all spiritual books are interpreted through regular people and not spirits. Seth’s books are fascinating and absolutely worth your time. The author recorded Seth’s dictation very honestly and the books not only cover psychology but also physics.
 

mac

janitor
There are different levels of sophistication to material communicated by different mediums so that anyone interested in learning about the spirit world can read from sources that suit them. There is something for everybody out there.
I do agree that it's best to find guidance that appeals to our reason.


I don't have any trouble understanding most of the Seth material. The quote from Seth was an attempt to explain what the creator is. Seth extrapolated backwards to arrive at his explanation of the source which he calls 'All that is' and which religions call God. It makes sense to me and is the best attempt at explaining what the source is that I've seen.

I have had no exposure to any of the Seth material so I have no idea how I would get on with it overall but the piece you have quoted I found awful to read.

The Silver Birch material which you like Mac consists of more general easier to understand material that suits a wider range of people than the Seth material.
Silver Birch's offerings were simple and easy to understand. They required nothing more of people than a preparedness to listen and consider.

Some of the Seth material is dubious. Seth for instance claims that the Yeti are real. He also claimed that there was an advanced civilisation on earth called Lumania with the Lumanians co-existing with early humans and living underground while observing early humans. He claims that some Lumanians left earth to live elsewhere in the physical universe. The nearest inhabitable planet would be light years away so it couldn't be true however it could be true in the sense that Mikey has revealed the existence of fairies etc in non-physical dimensions.

When one can describe some material from a discarnate source as dubious then it causes me concern that 'colouration' from a less-authoritative source may have occurred.

The Seth material is the most sophisticated material I've seen communicated through a medium. Jane Roberts made a modest amount of money from her books. She didn't seek fame or fortune. She died after lying in a hospital bed for a year and a half with her medical bills being paid for by donations. Ironically while she lay dying in her hospital bed she channeled her last Seth book 'The Way Toward Health'. I found it a good read. She focused so much on channeling Seth that she neglected her physical health. It's a pity she never got to channel the book that Seth was ready to do about Jesus. It might have been better however that it wasn't channeled. Many Christians are so heavily invested in a literal interpretation of the bible stories about Jesus life being true that Jane Robert's life might have been in danger had Seth given his perspective on Jesus. Some of what Jane Roberts communicated was done in front of an audience in weekly sessions she held. It couldn't have been made up. No con artist is that good.

I hope it's clear I never suggested the medium made anything up but it's a different issue altogether to say no con artist is that good. The essence of any successful con artist is that they actually are that good! But I did not claim, and I am not for one moment claiming now, that this woman was a con artist.

I read Wikipedia's interesting and informative piece about Jane Roberts (Seth) and her communications with Seth. As I wrote earlier, though, there is no new truth although if we're lucky some additional details might emerge to help our understanding. Over my time 'in the spooks' though I've not heard anything that takes us significantly beyond the fundamental guidance received through mediumship many decades ago.
 

mac

janitor
I’m pretty sure all spiritual books are interpreted through regular people and not spirits. Seth’s books are fascinating and absolutely worth your time. The author recorded Seth’s dictation very honestly and the books not only cover psychology but also physics.
Communicated work ideally needs no re-phrasing and no interpretation. Forgive me but when interpretation occurs then colouration of the details can be the outcome. That you find them fascinating I totally accept but you are making a broad-brush assumption that Seth's books are worth someone else's time. How on earth could you know that?

Nobody has claimed anything to suggest Seth's words were not honestly recorded but I don't follow why books about psychology and physics are relevant to Seth's communications.
 

baob

Active Member
Communicated work ideally needs no re-phrasing and no interpretation. Forgive me but when interpretation occurs then colouration of the details can be the outcome. That you find them fascinating I totally accept but you are making a broad-brush assumption that Seth's books are worth someone else's time. How on earth could you know that?

Nobody has claimed anything to suggest Seth's words were not honestly recorded but I don't follow why books about psychology and physics are relevant to Seth's communications.
I don’t know how to explain it. Once I started to read Seth’s books, I like it. Even though the sentences are long and awkward, you can get used to it. The best is to start with “Seth’s Speak”.
 

mac

janitor
I don’t know how to explain it. Once I started to read Seth’s books, I like it. Even though the sentences are long and awkward, you can get used to it. The best is to start with “Seth’s Speak”.
Well I'm glad for you that you like the Seth books but what revelation is in these books that made you say they're worth my time given that you know my own persuasion?

If I have to give time and effort to struggling with (quote) "long and awkward" sentences there needs to be a reward.
 
Top