• A resource for those seeking a greater understanding of survival and what follows death.

Over It - copied text

JJHome

Occasional Contributor
You're so welcome! & You're very brave! -- I've never had an MRI but they'd have to give me a Valium before I'd agree to get in that little tube - ! :p

As a side note I was trying to figure out what time zone the postings on here are. Thank you for the info! At one point it seemed like maybe it was UK time.
 

mac

janitor / administrator
Staff member
Yes setting the website to UK time is one of my indulgences. Whatever alternative time zone I might choose it would be wrong for someone!
 

mac

janitor / administrator
Staff member
You're so welcome! & You're very brave! -- I've never had an MRI but they'd have to give me a Valium before I'd agree to get in that little tube - ! :p
Oh thank you but I'm not brave as it doesn't bother me unduly. I see someone as brave when they do something despite their fear.
 

mac

janitor / administrator
Staff member
I expect by now it will be forgotten that in past time here on ALF I have challenged members over what they're expecting to find in the "world of the spirit". Indeed I challenged Mikey Morgan and any other interested reader to say why I was wrong to say we have no idea about the sciences of the etheric worlds.

In this very thread you give a great example by mentioning: "Even Mikey claims to snowboard. Where did the snow come from? Where did the mountain come from?" and I had already raised much the same points in the C&M Q&A thread.

Over subsequent years the realisation dawned on me that although conditions in the spirit world (as we call it) are experienced by those living there in much the same ways as we experience our world - ie feeling solid and "real" - the actuality is that "thought-makes-material", whatever that means to you. For me it means the thoughts of folk like myself, very ordinary individuals, can create objects and situations/conditions that we experience as material. If, for instance, we were to deeply desire a cup of coffee then our thoughts/desires would 'fashion' just such a thing - a cup of coffee. Would it be "real" one might ask? If we drink and enjoy it it would certainly feel that way. But when we'd done would the dirty cup still be around and need to be washed? Or, more likely I suggest, would that cup simply disappear because it had no further role and the coffee-drinker would have had their desire satiated.

Maybe that sounds frivolous or daft but it involves an important principle which took me an age to fathom - perhaps I'm just thick! The world of the spirit isn't a material one. Bruce will only be able to build his log cabin in the way he'd love to in this physical world if he can imagine - if he can use the power of his thoughts - to fabricate what he needs. The only trees he'll find to use as logs will be those held in existence by the combined thought power of whoever has that power. There will be no Home Depot, Lowes or ACE where he can acquire all the hand and power tools he would need - he'll have to think them into existence and then find a way to power them - gas or electricity.

My guess is that the needed thought-power will come both from the many ordinary souls who enjoy our natural world and still want to enjoy woods and forests in the next. I think spiritually-advanced souls who can manipulate their energy and also provide their own, will create and hold in existence such natural landscapes. In so doing it will effectively make them almost permanent. Mikey Morgan - in his guise of a recently departed 20 odd year old - will use (or would have used) his snowboard on mountains covered in snow created and held in existence communally. As such they may be landmarks as real to their beholders and users as our own Rocky Mountains are to us.

I can't offer any proof of all that but neither was Mikey ever able to refute my ideas and only today I found an interesting snippet tucked away in an old document about ectoplasm. I found the document interesting in its own right (which it might be for anyone interested in physical mediumship) but there was one line that particularly caught my eye. I quote: "There is nothing material in the Spirit World and nothing material comes out of it."

As I've written before, I consider the lowest levels of the so-called spirit world, or 'the afterlife', effectively as 'virtual' worlds. They are experienced by their inhabitants as real and solid but unlike our own they stay in existence only because they are kept that way for reasons we have yet to fully understand.
 
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BruceAdama

Occasional Contributor
Well, to answer bluebird, no, I didn’t mean other planets. What I was hoping to articulate is, what if there is something even more, beyond what we call the afterlife. Like, are these two realms - the physical, or more accurately, OUR OWN physical universe, and what we call the afterlife realm the ONLY two vehicles of existence? Or is there more? Can we incarnate into something wholly different, BEYOND the afterlife realm that ISN’T our own physical universe here, where Earth and all the galaxies are, etc. Like, could the afterlife realm simply be a transition point, or even another place of incarnation, just in a different form? Why is it only two planes of existence we ever hear about… here and there? Is that REALLY all there is to the entirety of creation - TWO modes of existence?

I’ll reply to some other points after work.
 

mac

janitor / administrator
Staff member
Why is it only two planes of existence we ever hear about… here and there? Is that REALLY all there is to the entirety of creation - TWO modes of existence?
I'm feeling generous so I'll take a stab at this.

No they aren't the only two modes of existence but we don't hear about the others because those who inhabit them don't communicate with us. Come to think of it unless you personally, have the ability to communicate with discarnates directly, or unless you sit with mediums who can connect to spirits who are linked to you, then YOU aren't going to find out anything more out than you know now. Same goes for most of us unless we take steps to change the situation. I study and meditate to improve my understanding, others may do similar.


What I was hoping to articulate is, what if there is something even more, beyond what we call the afterlife. Like, are these two realms - the physical, or more accurately, OUR OWN physical universe, and what we call the afterlife realm the ONLY two vehicles of existence? Or is there more?
No they're not the only two and yes there are more.

This so-called afterlife takes on such an importance because many/most of us are desperately afraid of dying and learning about survival - and even better hearing from a loved one - is likely to be the sum total of their desire to learn. Even among folk like me - not many of them here on ALF - relatively few consider the "before-life" aspect of our existence.

When you've understood that there's something after death, and then understood there's something before life on earth, THEN you are just about at a point of observing a tiny bit more of that big picture I've often mentioned in the past here on ALF. Until you've reached that point you're gonna struggle to understand which is indeed what you do.

Can we incarnate into something wholly different, BEYOND the afterlife realm that ISN’T our own physical universe here, where Earth and all the galaxies are, etc. Like, could the afterlife realm simply be a transition point, or even another place of incarnation, just in a different form?
The common use of the word "incarnate" - and the one I definitely use - implies embodiment of a spirit and becoming a physical individual. So could we incarnate into a different physical world you ask? One answer is that if you desired it strongly enough, and/or if you needed it, then my guess would be that an alternative physical dimension would be available. Don't ask me how you'd get to those regions because I don't have a clue but in the etheric levels are spirit helpers/guides who would be able to counsel you and help achieve what's needed - whatever it might be.

The so-called afterlife is simply one form of existence which - by definition - follows this one. Beyond that will be other dimensions of existence. One could justifiably consider the change from incarnate to discarnate life to be one "transition point" to use your own words.

Hence moving from the so-called afterlife to the next stage of existence, something occurring when the individual has progressed spiritually sufficiently, could justifiably be considered a further transition point. However it would not be a further incarnation - not embodiment as another individual - as we did when we incarnated into this world.

You'll likely ask why not and to answer that you'll first need to get a better view of "the big picture".
 

mac

janitor / administrator
Staff member
I'm heartened I've received a 'thumbs-up' like icon from member Bruce. It shows he's at least seen my well-thought-out response even if he's not read it! lol ;) I did actually put in quite a bit of effort and thought into it and if the subjects in this thread haven't run their course, and if a longer conversation should develop, I will copy some of these discussion points into a new thread.

I've seen how some members expect the so-called afterlife to live up to their expectations and/or preferences and desires and in my view that will - to some degree - be the outcome. But the Devil is in the detail.....

I think it's highly likely that strongly held views will result in certain outcomes. It's been taught that after we pass over on death that where we find ourselves will largely depend on our individual 'spiritual status'. We don't know what our overall spiritual status is because all we know now is how we feel now. The reality is that we might know sub-consciously far more than we do consciously. When we return after death to this mysterious world we refer to as "the afterlife" we may experience an "Oh, of course!" moment as we remember the reasons we came here. None of us can know exactly what we'll feel after we have died.....

Whatever our spiritual status it appears we'll be in a world very malleable to thought - that's the best way I can describe it. I expect we'll be fascinated by what we can do once we've registered that we're actually doing it. For most I'm hoping and expecting their previous fears will quickly be allayed as they settle in their new surroundings. Stuff that seems so important and worrisome now - God, reincarnation, different worlds etc - will drop into the background and quickly feel irrelevant. All the stress and unhappiness of this world will soon be no more than a distant memory but for now we battle on with our doubts and fears.
 

BruceAdama

Occasional Contributor
I actually did read it, and I’ve actually left you a few thumbs up on your responses.

Regarding the usage of the word incarnate… maybe a more apt word to use would be embody… or occupy?
 

bluebird

Significant Contributor
Well, to answer bluebird, no, I didn’t mean other planets. What I was hoping to articulate is, what if there is something even more, beyond what we call the afterlife. Like, are these two realms - the physical, or more accurately, OUR OWN physical universe, and what we call the afterlife realm the ONLY two vehicles of existence? Or is there more? Can we incarnate into something wholly different, BEYOND the afterlife realm that ISN’T our own physical universe here, where Earth and all the galaxies are, etc. Like, could the afterlife realm simply be a transition point, or even another place of incarnation, just in a different form? Why is it only two planes of existence we ever hear about… here and there? Is that REALLY all there is to the entirety of creation - TWO modes of existence?

I’ll reply to some other points after work.

I honestly don't know. Hell, I'm not even sure there's an afterlife at all, so I wouldn't presume to know whether there is some sort of multi-verse of afterlives or dimensions or whatever. My guess, though, is that if we do continue to exist after this life, then whatever comes after this life is part of the afterlife, that there may just be many facets to it. Maybe we only hear certain things about it because at the moment that's all most of us can handle. Or if you mean can we incarnate into some other type of existence, my answer is much the same -- I don't see why not, we probably just don't hear about those because we don't need to or couldn't handle it.
 

BruceAdama

Occasional Contributor
Well, to expand on the original thought… if there IS something beyond even the afterlife realm… then would one return to the afterlife realm once they’ve “died” in whatever is beyond it, or would there be something even beyond THAT realm, which the incarnates in that realm would consider to be the afterlife? Like, we associate the afterlife realm with “heaven”, or something akin to it, regardless of which faith one follows… there’s largely a spiritual element associated with it. But if it merely IS yet another transitory realm, leading to something greater, then wouldn’t the occupants of that greater realm look to whatever is higher as the afterlife, and consider OUR afterlife realm to be one of the lower levels?
 
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