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BruceAdama

Occasional Contributor
Okay, this thought crossed me mind this morning… the idea that this death is a spiritual rebirth, and when we incarnate again, it’s a spiritual death, of a sort, meaning that the traces left over on our spirit from the last incarnation are wiped clean. So, we have a cycle… incarnation, death, incarnation, death. It is sometimes phrased that we don’t die, but merely transition to a new form of life. But is it ONLY two-way (Earth and the afterlife realm)? Like, is it possible to incarnate into a life NOT of this Earthly physical realm, but also NOT of the afterlife realm? Can we experience life as something else entirely, or are the Earthly universe and the afterlife realm the only two possibilities for existence?
 

bluebird

Significant Contributor
I'm pretty sure I've read things in which people state that we can incarnate into life on other planets....is that what you mean? Or do you mean alternate dimensions or similar?

Regardless -- if souls do exist, if an afterlife does exist, and if reincarnation does exist, then I don't see why it would be any less possible for us to incarnate on a different planet or in a different dimension than for us to incarnate here on earth.
 

mac

janitor / administrator
Staff member
There is no definitive guidance on how any process of reincarnation occurs. What we do have are snippets of information from various spirit guides. Essentially reincarnation is there to meet our spiritual needs and if one of those needs were to experience life on some other form of planet in some other form of existence then it appears that's possible.

As for whether any alternative would NOT be either earth or afterlife then once again it's a discussion out of context. The so-called afterlife is simply how some of us simple creatures think of life, death and what happens next. Looking at the situation in a broader context, whatever we are in our 'true form', our spirit form, we are said to be eternal. That is we existed before we entered this world and began this particular way of living - and we'll continue after it.

Life did not begin when we were born into this world and it doesn't end at any point after it UNTIL we've developed and progressed spiritually to the point where we are ready to merge again with source, a notion that's anathema to many. But if we do eventually merge it will be on a scale of time beyond our ability to conceive of - always acknowledging that there is no such thing elsewhere as time the way we experience it here. And also acknowledging all such progress is beyond our ability to conceive of what it means and how we will feel about it. It's all too easy to believe that how we feel now is how we'll feel always......

In connection with the point raised, the upshot is that ALL dimensions of existence are parts of the same continuum of life and spiritual progress, the eventual destination being what I mentioned above. The so-called afterlife is the way some of us humans acknowledge there's another life after we've died. It's just one of numerous states of existence that some of us refer to as spiritual life.

In essence all forms of life take place within a 'framework' that encompasses earth life and what we see as "the afterlife". That framework also encompasses every other location or state of existence. There is no "outside" of anything - EVERYTHING is inside..... Words are so inadequate to describe the situation. :(
 

mac

janitor / administrator
Staff member
Okay, this thought crossed me mind this morning… the idea that this death is a spiritual rebirth, and when we incarnate again, it’s a spiritual death, of a sort, meaning that the traces left over on our spirit from the last incarnation are wiped clean.
It's said that in the so-called spirit dimension those living there are sad when someone enters, or returns to, this physical dimension - you might see it as death of the spirit although that's not correct. For the ones who see them leave it's not so very different from what happens to us when a loved one passes over EXCEPT THAT they know WAY MORE than we are consciously aware of. They know that the incarnation - or reincarnation - has been chosen by the one who's undertaking it and that the period that spirit will spend as a physical being is not a long one and it's definitely not forever.

Re that last sentence, the aspect of our never seeing loved ones again is one that greatly troubles many humans of course. Yet one of the innumerable experiences we can't have in our spirit forms hence one of the reasons we come here.
 

JJHome

Occasional Contributor
There is no definitive guidance on how any process of reincarnation occurs. What we do have are snippets of information from various spirit guides. Essentially reincarnation is there to meet our spiritual needs and if one of those needs were to experience life on some other form of planet in some other form of existence then it appears that's possible.

As for whether any alternative would NOT be either earth or afterlife then once again it's a discussion out of context. The so-called afterlife is simply how some of us simple creatures think of life, death and what happens next. Looking at the situation in a broader context, whatever we are in our 'true form', our spirit form, we are said to be eternal. That is we existed before we entered this world and began this particular way of living - and we'll continue after it.

Life did not begin when we were born into this world and it doesn't end at any point after it UNTIL we've developed and progressed spiritually to the point where we are ready to merge again with source, a notion that's anathema to many. But if we do eventually merge it will be on a scale of time beyond our ability to conceive of - always acknowledging that there is no such thing elsewhere as time the way we experience it here. And also acknowledging all such progress is beyond our ability to conceive of what it means and how we will feel about it. It's all too easy to believe that how we feel now is how we'll feel always......

In connection with the point raised, the upshot is that ALL dimensions of existence are parts of the same continuum of life and spiritual progress, the eventual destination being what I mentioned above. The so-called afterlife is the way some of us humans acknowledge there's another life after we've died. It's just one of numerous states of existence that some of us refer to as spiritual life.

In essence all forms of life take place within a 'framework' that encompasses earth life and what we see as "the afterlife". That framework also encompasses every other location or state of existence. There is no "outside" of anything - EVERYTHING is inside..... Words are so inadequate to describe the situation. :(
I have to chime in and say that I don't actually agree that my eventual destination is to merge with source, whatever or whoever that is. That notion certainly is anathema to me. If that's something you are keen for then that's probably what your eventual destination is, if you want it. But count me out. If source exists, I look at it like a parent, and perhaps I am its offspring. I have no desire to merge with my human parents, nor do I have any desire to merge with any spiritual parent, if one exists. That just sounds unpleasant and weird to me. Why would the source want that anyhow? I know everyone is wired up differently, but I just don't see what the appeal would be. Yes, yes, I know that some would say we may change our minds about things after we die, but I really have to say that's gonna be a hard pass for me.

What I am curious about though, is what you actually think that entails, or what it means (merging with source)? Does it mean you lose "your" perspective and identity, and become part of a hive mind, and how would that be experienced? It sounds awful! Would you no longer have any private thoughts, any introspection? Genuinely curious as to your take.
 

mac

janitor / administrator
Staff member
What I am curious about though, is what you actually think that entails, or what it means (merging with source)? Does it mean you lose "your" perspective and identity, and become part of a hive mind, and how would that be experienced? It sounds awful! Would you no longer have any private thoughts, any introspection? Genuinely curious as to your take.
I am delighted you were following (or have just read) this conversation, this section copied from another thread. I will be more than happy to offer my thoughts and try to explain my perspective. There are a number of questions so I'll take one at a time.....

You asked: "Does it mean you lose "your" perspective and identity,....." and my approach to that is that you do lose all the three you mentioned because "you" have ceased to be an independent entity.

I don't see myself as becoming part of a hive mind because that works to sustain the hive and the bees in it have specific, different roles. That's not how I see source - for me the whole, the source, is homogeneous and there are no separate entities or roles as in a hive. For some years now I've expressed the nature of humans as "of God, from God and identically similar to God". Just like beads of Mercury, splashes from an ocean or whatever - they're all identically similar to their particular source and can merge BACK into it without individuality. That's in essence how I see us human beings will one day return to our source. There will be no private thoughts or introspection as you ask about because individuality will cease on merging. Experiencing individuality and all that goes with individuality is one important reason we leave source in the first place. We are familiar with it in this world but we experience individuality anywhere away from source, to a greater or lesser degree I expect.


I have to chime in and say that I don't actually agree that my eventual destination is to merge with source, whatever or whoever that is. That notion certainly is anathema to me. If that's something you are keen for then that's probably what your eventual destination is, if you want it. But count me out.
I wouldn't express it that way. I say I am totally comfortable knowing it will happen when the time is right. I see it as a return whence I came.

I totally accept the idea does not sit comfortably with you right now though and should you continue to feel that way forever then I guess you may well choose NEVER to merge. Bruce Adama says he won't either. Quite where that would leave any individual spirit being I have no idea! Perhaps in the company of others for whom merging with source is similarly unacceptable?

Maybe you and others will be in a community of "no mergers" and have roles as spiritually-developed, guides, guardians or teachers - or something else????? But maybe you'll feel the "pull" of the so-called Godhead at some point and your present distaste concerning merging will change to one of longing - who knows? Certainly none of us here on earth I'd guess.


If source exists, I look at it like a parent, and perhaps I am its offspring. I have no desire to merge with my human parents, nor do I have any desire to merge with any spiritual parent, if one exists. That just sounds unpleasant and weird to me.
It would indeed be weird for you whereas I do not feel that way at all. I think I might have done before the events I see as my awakening. Literally it's like my slumbering spiritual self was woken and I chimed into a starter level of spiritual awareness.


Why would the source want that anyhow?
As I understand or visualise the reason it's because source somehow benefits from the return of its individuated particles from their journeys of experience and spiritual discovery. I can't be any more detailed than that because I don't know anything more than that BUT inside I FEEL it.


I know everyone is wired up differently, but I just don't see what the appeal would be.
You've hit the nail on the head - we're all wired slightly differently. You could choose any activity in this world in which you have no interest - compulsively reading books or doing Sudoku, going sky-diving or whatever - and say much the same. "I don't see the appeal".

Yes, yes, I know that some would say we may change our minds about things after we die, but I really have to say that's gonna be a hard pass for me.
I wish I had a quid for every time I've heard this argument! lol ;) But surely there have been times in your life where finding out about something or other led to you changing your mind? Maybe even something you felt really strongly about? If, though, you haven't ever experienced such a situation then I guess you could be right in expecting you are unlikely to change your ideas after you die.

By contrast after my own death I expect to learn - or become re-acquainted with - 'stuff' I don't consciously know right now. But maybe it's because I actually am sub-consciously aware of the things I've mentioned that I see things, and say things, the way I do? ;)
 

JJHome

Occasional Contributor
I appreciate your thorough and well thought out reply! :D

I have absolutely changed my mind about things in life, but not, for example, things I feel very strongly about inside. Not merging with source is one of those things, lol. Kind of like, I know I am always going to love Joe. That will never change. I will always want to retain my individuality. It's THAT important to me. I don't think that means I have an unhealthy ego, although others are free to disagree. People talk about ego as if it is a negative and undesirable thing. Me personally, I see beauty in individuality. I am a very introverted and introspective person, and I have a rich and varied inner life (i.e., I am never bored, there is always some thought to occupy my mind). That may play a part in my feeling the way I do.

I also enjoy solitary activities, like sitting alone in nature, just to ponder.

But again, others do not feel the same and that is ok. As long as no one is forcing anyone to do anything, "we cool", as they say here.

I love your paragraph about a community of "no-mergers". I really do feel like I could be happy "forever" spending time with loved ones, talking, sharing a meal, planting a garden, "creating" a beautiful landscape to enjoy and share with others, writing a song, painting a picture. I have a similar thought to Bruce in that I enjoy doing things with my hands, and I could see myself actually wanting to "build" something in a traditional way and I don't see why that couldn't be done in the afterlife.

Especially having lived an earth life, and having the comparison of "here" v. "there", since I'm never bored "here", I can't see myself getting bored "there." Especially if there's a library! (I love to read). And I would never get tired of spending time with loved ones, sitting in a cozy cabin sipping hot chocolate while a winter storm brews outside, with tall pine trees in the background.

I also feel that we are parts of God, but I don't think that means we will be forced to be absorbed back into God, that would be a horrible violation of free will. If we are in fact parts of God, then we will also have the capacity to create.

In fairness, there are times that I can see the appeal in having "no thoughts", just eternal bliss and peace, but that also sounds scary to me.

I feel that source could still benefit from my experiences - source is welcome to that - but I think the concept of merging with source is not something that I will ever be comfortable with. But, on the same token, nor do I think it's weird or odd that others might wish to do so.

And now I'm just rambling! Lol
 

mac

janitor / administrator
Staff member
I appreciate your thorough and well thought out reply! :D
thank you

I have absolutely changed my mind about things in life, but not, for example, things I feel very strongly about inside. Not merging with source is one of those things, lol.
Perhaps, though, when you don't have an inside in which to feel anything you MIGHT see matters differently. Do you think that's not even a possibility?


Kind of like, I know I am always going to love Joe. That will never change.
There's no reason you wouldn't continue to love your Joe.


I will always want to retain my individuality. It's THAT important to me.
I totally acknowledge what you feel here-and-now. You may indeed feel the same after you die, but with the greatest respect, JJ, none of us can know for sure how we will feel in the future.


I don't think that means I have an unhealthy ego, although others are free to disagree. People talk about ego as if it is a negative and undesirable thing.
For you to say this here and out-of-context I'm thinking someone HAS accused you of having an unhealthy ego. I certainly haven't I hope you will acknowledge.



Me personally, I see beauty in individuality. I am a very introverted and introspective person, and I have a rich and varied inner life (i.e., I am never bored, there is always some thought to occupy my mind). That may play a part in my feeling the way I do. I also enjoy solitary activities, like sitting alone in nature, just to ponder.
I'm certain I've not said anything negative about individuality and I have not said anything at all about your personality. Those points are personal to you but I was speaking about issues that affect ALL of us.

But again, others do not feel the same and that is ok. As long as no one is forcing anyone to do anything, "we cool", as they say here.
As I understand matters - based on what teachers and guides have told us - we're not forced to do anything after we die and I approach what I write on this website in a similar way. I don't tell anyone what's going to happen other than in the context of it being what I understand based on what's been taught and it's arguably possible those teachers and guides I rely on may be wrong.

I love your paragraph about a community of "no-mergers". I really do feel like I could be happy "forever" spending time with loved ones, talking, sharing a meal, planting a garden, "creating" a beautiful landscape to enjoy and share with others, writing a song, painting a picture.
You might be totally right about the way you will feel and you could do most of those things by yourself. Loved ones, though, may not want the same.....


I have a similar thought to Bruce in that I enjoy doing things with my hands, and I could see myself actually wanting to "build" something in a traditional way and I don't see why that couldn't be done in the afterlife.
You can do ANYTHING you have the capability to do but it's not a dimension of magic. Bruce said he wants to build a log cabin in a forest setting and I said that's possible if he has the hand-tools he'd need and lumber, shingles etc. He might also need a chainsaw to cut the logs to size and caulk to seal the gaps so a trip to Home Depot or Lowe's might be needed. So, yes, all that's possible.....

Especially having lived an earth life, and having the comparison of "here" v. "there", since I'm never bored "here", I can't see myself getting bored "there." Especially if there's a library! (I love to read). And I would never get tired of spending time with loved ones, sitting in a cozy cabin sipping hot chocolate while a winter storm brews outside, with tall pine trees in the background.
Provided you can imagine for yourself the winter storm and the hot chocolate you could join Bruce in the cabin he builds. ;)

I also feel that we are parts of God, but I don't think that means we will be forced to be absorbed back into God,
I had rather hoped I had made the point that you'll do what you choose. I certainly had never suggested you will be forced to be absorbed, as you put it.


that would be a horrible violation of free will. If we are in fact parts of God, then we will also have the capacity to create.
The last part is an interesting notion but it's debatable whether anything other than source has the capacity to create as opposed to causing change.

In fairness, there are times that I can see the appeal in having "no thoughts", just eternal bliss and peace, but that also sounds scary to me.
You're judging the situation as an incarnate. That might be misleading

I feel that source could still benefit from my experiences - source is welcome to that - but I think the concept of merging with source is not something that I will ever be comfortable with. But, on the same token, nor do I think it's weird or odd that others might wish to do so.

And now I'm just rambling! Lol
And as I wrote earlier, provided you continue to think forever the way you think now then you may never choose to do what we've chatted about here. The thing is that unless you don't make much further spiritual progress then you really have little more than personal belief about how you'll feel in the future 'when yer dead'.
 

JJHome

Occasional Contributor
I'll start by saying that I don't have hard and fast notions about the afterlife. I simply know what I'd prefer. Anything's possible. But not everything is probable.

I think I know how I'll feel in the future about certain things, but again anything is possible. I have the personality that I have now. If that is erased in the afterlife who would I even be?

I don't know what you mean by not having an inside. I also don't subscribe to the notion that there will be no privacy in the afterlife. I think if you want privacy, you can have it. Why wouldn't that be possible?

You said, "Perhaps, though, when you don't have an inside in which to feel anything you MIGHT see matters differently." Do you think there will be no feelings or emotions in the afterlife?

To my recollection, no one has accused me of having an unhealthy ego. My understanding of the word ego is that it is your conscious mind, that part of your identity that you consider to be "yourself." I don't think it was out of context. I said "I will always want to retain my individuality. It's THAT important to me. I don't think that means I have an unhealthy ego, although others are free to disagree." In the spiritual circle, the word "ego" has been somewhat demonized, as if it's a bad thing to have one.

Loved ones may not want the same thing, and part of love is "letting" others do what they choose. No conflict there. My ADC with Joe was reassuring and I don't think he would have bothered with that if he didn't want to spend time with me when I cross over.

You said "I'm certain I've not said anything negative about individuality and I have not said anything at all about your personality. Those points are personal to you but I was speaking about issues that affect ALL of us." No disagreement there. I brought up my personality because I feel it's relevant. If I value my individuality, which I do, I have no desire to merge with source, if that means losing my individuality. It's all related. Do you disagree that merging with source would be losing your individuality?

How do we even know there's a source?

You said, "The thing is that unless you don't make much further spiritual progress then you really have little more than personal belief about how you'll feel in the future 'when yer dead'."

Respectfully, Huh?? I'm not trying to make further spiritual progress. I look at life on earth as a series of experiences, and my nature has always been to treat people how I want to be treated. What do you mean by "unless you don't make much further spiritual progress"? Am I speaking like a person who is not spiritually progressed? I'm not even sure I know what that means.

I'll have to see if Bruce is amenable to the snowstorm, LOL. He may prefer warmer climes.

I used to think that life was some challenge to attain lofty spiritual goals, and I no longer think that. I've always been a loving and kind person and I guess if you could consider that a goal, it's my goal to continue to be that way as best I can while on earth.
 

JJHome

Occasional Contributor
One last thought.
It may, in fact, be a dimension of magic.

When I lucid dream, I consciously "create" beautiful landscapes. If this is possible in my lucid dream environment, why would it not be possible "over there"?

I think we will be MORE capable, not LESS capable, in the afterlife. And probably with vast opportunities to learn. If I want a piano lesson from Beethoven, maybe he'll give me one?
 
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