member responses and conversations - general

mac

Administrator
The incarnate lives of some individuals and families appear to be chock full of incidents and issues. Sometimes I wonder what the hell is going on to bring about so many traumatic events. I suppose some people are so used to living that way they have little idea that others don't. In much the same way that children who are abused and lead miserable childhoods but think they're normal.

It might appear to those living traumatic / eventful lives that simpler, gentle ones one without pain, conflict or drama, might be boring. That's really sad.
 

fins up

Occasional Contributor
Perhaps a new forum could be started. A member and the administrator could challenge other members questions and insult the questioner. Those who want to know what Carol and Mikey have to say could stay right here. The new forum could also promote spiritualism and agnosticism.
 

mac

Administrator
Perhaps a new forum could be started. A member and the administrator could challenge other members questions and insult the questioner. Those who want to know what Carol and Mikey have to say could stay right here. The new forum could also promote spiritualism and agnosticism.
Members already have a wide range of long-existing forums in which to post their thoughts, views, ideas, beliefs or whatever and as I'm in charge of this website, and create or remove forums, I can asure you there will be no forum along the lines you've suggested.

Furthermore nobody is allowed to insult anyone on this website and that won't change in the future. However we do not have to agree with views or opinions expressed in any forum and members may challenge points made and even disagree with them. But that applies to points made and not individuals.
 

Ruby

Significant Contributor
This topic deserves its own spot but as it's already running here I'll continue for now and we'll see if it generates enough interest to be continued in a separate thread.

Whatever we may feel personally about abortion there are some additional issues I think deserve consideration....

Firstly it’s a female issue. A man is involved in causing the problem but the mother faces her problem alone save for the support she may get, and deserves to get, from the father.

Male views count for less except for the support they should provide for the woman’s decision. They don’t give birth and don’t have the stress a female does. Even other females shouldn’t get to determine what any other woman must do.

All THAT should put the cat among the pigeons! Spiritually it’s an interesting and very different position. Childbirth may be unique to this particular world.

It’s the ONLY way spirits can get to experience incarnation here.

A female is very special given she’s the only way to get into this world.

She doesn’t have any obligation to provide such a service.

She doesn’t have to see it to completion.

Her role and all the positive expectations that accompany it - expectation and anticipation of motherhood etc. - may anyway cease at the drop of a hat without her involvement. eg miscarriage and neo-natal death

The physical and emotional load of motherhood is enormous. Not all females experience it in the same way or to the same degree. Why should women expect other women to adopt their personal values, share their views and approach when it’s such a personal issue?

Outside of just those few randomly-chosen issues there are deeper spiritual considerations but unless we find a better overall understanding than we presently have - seemingly very little! - of the way of the spirit then most of those aspects are essentially meaningless for many/most of us.
Well said, mac!
 

bluebird

Major Contributor
It's very sad but some people thrive on conflict, drama. I know quite a lot of people who are like this, it just fuels their ego. Whether it happens in the after-life I'm not so sure. Maybe in the lower-lowers. Looking forward to Carols and Mikey's answer on this.
I suppose you're right....my guess is that that's most often the case for people who grew up in very dysfunctional households with a lot of conflict, or who had relationships with a lot of conflict. Maybe it gets kind of hard-wired into them, which is a shame. If there is an afterlife, I very much doubt it continues there, though (just my opinion).
 

mac

Administrator
I suppose you're right....my guess is that that's most often the case for people who grew up in very dysfunctional households with a lot of conflict, or who had relationships with a lot of conflict. Maybe it gets kind of hard-wired into them, which is a shame. If there is an afterlife, I very much doubt it continues there, though (just my opinion).
I guess kids learn many things from parents, both negative and positive. Is that perhaps because they opt in their life-plans to experience such lives? I'm not suggesting it is but simply throwing it out as a discussion point. Whether negative behaviors are carried over into the so-called afterlife is moot but based on what I've heard there's every opportunity there of dropping old and negative values and living a very different and uplifting life.
 

bluebird

Major Contributor
I guess kids learn many things from parents, both negative and positive. Is that perhaps because they opt in their life-plans to experience such lives? I'm not suggesting it is but simply throwing it out as a discussion point. Whether negative behaviors are carried over into the so-called afterlife is moot but based on what I've heard there's every opportunity there of dropping old and negative values and living a very different and uplifting life.
I suppose anything is possible, but as you likely know I am not a believer in the idea that we each make a "life plan" prior to coming here, especially when doing so would involve a life of pain. In my opinion, some people believe in that concept in order to make themselves feel better about the horrible things that sometimes happen in their lives, and perhaps as a way to feel that they are exerting some control over those events in their lives (even if they exerted that control prior to their earthly birth/life).
 

mac

Administrator
I'm split about life-plans in a similar way to how I'm split about reincarnation. I feel confident both occur and apply to folk generally but I think many individuals have ideas that will eventually - when they have passed over into the next dimension - be found to have been wide of the mark.

With time on my hands, and uncertainty about details my regular companion nowadays, I downloaded a Kindle version of Red Cloud's book concerning his mission here on earth. I felt I should at least read what he had to say to compare with my favorite guide's words. I was disappointed but reassured that my preferred teacher was in 'a different league' and I'm happy to remain guided by much of what he communicated.

I can wait to learn the final details and, as I so often now remark, it likely ain't gonna be too long a wait anyway! ;):D
 

bluebird

Major Contributor
I'm split about life-plans in a similar way to how I'm split about reincarnation. I feel confident both occur and apply to folk generally but I think many individuals have ideas that will eventually - when they have passed over into the next dimension - be found to have been wide of the mark.

With time on my hands, and uncertainty about details my regular companion nowadays, I downloaded a Kindle version of Red Cloud's book concerning his mission here on earth. I felt I should at least read what he had to say to compare with my favorite guide's words. I was disappointed but reassured that my preferred teacher was in 'a different league' and I'm happy to remain guided by much of what he communicated.

I can wait to learn the final details and, as I so often now remark, it likely ain't gonna be too long a wait anyway! ;):D
I acknowledge that I may be wrong about life-plans; any of us could be wrong about any of this. And I'm not completely against the idea -- if there is a beforelife/afterlife, then I do think it's possible that some people, sometimes, make some kind of life plans prior to coming here (though I generally think it's more along the lines of choosing a country/area in which to be born, choosing parents, maybe choosing gender, possibly a talent or general life path like being a cowboy or a writer or a sailor....).

What I don't believe is that everyone plans out every detail of their lives beforehand, or even that everyone plans all of the major events of their lives (though some very well may), or even plans at all. Specifically in instances of horrible life situations, whether individual (like my husband dying) or shared (like the Holocaust), I do not believe that people choose those things, those life circumstances/events. I do not believe that anyone would choose to be burned alive in a concentration camp oven, or sexually molested throughout childhood, or born with severe birth defects, or live an entire life in extreme poverty, or be killed in a car accident at the age of two, etc. I think that anyone who suggests that some people do choose those things is completely wrong, and holds that view for one of two reasons (there may be more reasons, but these are the two that occur to me): (1) as I mentioned, in an attempt to make some sense of the crap in life, and to try to exert some control over it; (2) as a way to say that some people "deserve" what they get (usually in the case of people of whom they don't approve, such as drug addicts or sex workers or single mothers or LGBTQIA+ people, etc.).

Shitty things are going to happen to almost every person on earth, just as a result of the nature of human life, environment, and free will. It sucks, but that's how it is, and there's no reason to overlay some sort of grand pre-life plan over that; moreover, I don't think it's helpful to do so -- in fact I think it's harmful, as in some peoples' minds it can remove responsibility from people who choose to do horrible things to others (as in the case of rape, murder, robbery, abuse, etc., or even "smaller" things like cheating on a partner or ripping off customers or the like). When someone does something bad to someone else (assuming no weird/unusual circumstance such as a domestic abuse victim killing her/his abuser in self-defense or after years of abuse), that action and its results are the fault of the person who took that action, period. The recipient/victim of that action didn't "choose" it prior to coming to this life, the person who took the action did, in this life.

I suppose I view the concept of life-plans in much the same way as I view reincarnation, which you also mentioned -- if it does exist, then we have a choice as to whether or not we participate, and/or to what degree. If life-plans do exist, then certainly that's how it should be, at least in my opinion.
 

mac

Administrator
These are the kinds of difficulties free-thinkers face. It comes down to one's personal beliefs about the way a plan for life might operate. No matter how dreadful something might seem, it has to be a possibility that somebody just MIGHT want to experience its horror. But from this dimension it makes no sense that large numbers would choose it and that's our biggest problem - spiritual myopia.

I've given up trying to make sense of individual or mass horror situations. I could play the role of Devil's Advocate for most or all of them but what's the point? We understand so little and just getting one's head around survival is a big enough step for many. Going beyond that point is, well, pointless until you're persuaded that there's something beyond corporeal death.

As members will know I have no doubts but understanding much more is beyond my ken and I don't try any more. Maybe it's my age but I just don't care now about anything more than trying to help others find their own way to understand death and survival.

If I can help do that then I've achieved enough for this simple soul and I leave all the fancy arguments to others now.
 

bluebird

Major Contributor
These are the kinds of difficulties free-thinkers face. It comes down to one's personal beliefs about the way a plan for life might operate. No matter how dreadful something might seem, it has to be a possibility that somebody just MIGHT want to experience its horror. But from this dimension it makes no sense that large numbers would choose it and that's our biggest problem - spiritual myopia.

I've given up trying to make sense of individual or mass horror situations. I could play the role of Devil's Advocate for most or all of them but what's the point? We understand so little and just getting one's head around survival is a big enough step for many. Going beyond that point is, well, pointless until you're persuaded that there's something beyond corporeal death.

As members will know I have no doubts but understanding much more is beyond my ken and I don't try any more. Maybe it's my age but I just don't care now about anything more than trying to help others find their own way to understand death and survival.

If I can help do that then I've achieved enough for this simple soul and I leave all the fancy arguments to others now.

Well let me ask you this, then, playing Devil's Advocate for a moment. Suppose some people do choose to experience some horrific event in life, do make a "life-plan" while in the beforelife which includes that event.

Why? Why would they choose/do that? For what reason, towards what end?
 

mac

Administrator
Well let me ask you this, then, playing Devil's Advocate for a moment. Suppose some people do choose to experience some horrific event in life, do make a "life-plan" while in the beforelife which includes that event.

Why? Why would they choose/do that? For what reason, towards what end?
why? For their spiritual advancement just as with any other experience, positive or negative. So many experiences in this physical world won't be available elsewhere and - we're taught - those experiences enhance the rate of our spiritual progress.

Consider a horrible experience, something the average Joe or Josephine Spirit wouldn't encounter during discarnate life. If we accept experiences here enhance our progress then experiencing even a horrible one will do that and it will be something we wouldn't experience elsewhere. If we accept that all experiences here somehow enhance our progress then even 'negative' outcomes will too.

All experiences are for our spiritual progress and even the ones we consider negative can do that. BUT not for one moment am I suggesting that all horrible experiences, the ones we consider negative, are pre-planned. (in my estimation) Unlike in the world of the spirit, the actions and omissions of others can impact our planned events. (if you can accept we plan at least some of them) So one's plans can be scuppered by others resulting in an outcome that hadn't been one's intention. Or something could go wrong - accident, ill health, misfortune - leading to an unplanned outcome. And we can't figure one from another while we're incarnate.
 

bluebird

Major Contributor
I suppose I just don't believe that it is necessary to experience horrible things in order to "spiritually progress" -- and if I'm wrong about that, then I don't think whatever spiritual progress may be made is worth the pain.

I agree with this: "BUT not for one moment am I suggesting that all horrible experiences, the ones we consider negative, are pre-planned. (in my estimation) Unlike in the world of the spirit, the actions and omissions of others can impact our planned events. (if you can accept we plan at least some of them) So one's plans can be scuppered by others resulting in an outcome that hadn't been one's intention."
 

mac

Administrator
I agree with you - it's not necessary to exprience to make progress but it enhances it in a way we don't understand - if you accept what teachers and guides tell us....
 

mac

Administrator
It's the option for each of us..... I can't tell if my easy life is the outcome of a choice I made because I'm a coward or because I've faced and dealt with sufficient difficult situations for my immediate needs. ;)
 

bluebird

Major Contributor
I have to agree with Antonio, when he says that everyone's experience is different. I've made no secret of the fact that I am agnostic regarding the existence of an afterlife, nor of the fact that my grief remains as deep now as it was when my husband died nine years ago. Nonetheless, I have had experiences which may very well have been signs from my husband, particularly in the first six months to a year after he died, and the first of which occurred on the very first night following the day of his death.
 
I have to agree with Antonio, when he says that everyone's experience is different. I've made no secret of the fact that I am agnostic regarding the existence of an afterlife, nor of the fact that my grief remains as deep now as it was when my husband died nine years ago. Nonetheless, I have had experiences which may very well have been signs from my husband, particularly in the first six months to a year after he died, and the first of which occurred on the very first night following the day of his death.
It is very nice to have someone say something about my post after having joined this site very recently after listening to Carol's presentation at Global Gatherings Sunday meetings.

I want to share a few things from my personal experience and what I have read and discussed with others.:

-First I do not think that being an agnostic will interfere with you receiving contact from your loved one. If they want to contact you they will regardless of your beliefs.

-I would not consider myself agnostic but a hard core scientist (medical doctor) You got to prove it to me kind of person

-But grief will lower your vibration and interfere with the connection but those across the veil can still come through (as my wife did during the very early stages of my loss when I was in acute grief)

-It can become a catch 22 situation...contacting those you love that are on the other side can help alleviate your grief but being in grief interferes with the contact. Doing a session of RRGT, or Loving Heart Connection can help alleviate the grief and also help connect at the same time with your love one. I just did an RRGT session last week and found it very helpful not only as a way of reducing some of the grief that was still present but also making the connection feel more alive and real.

-I was lucky because I took many courses and read a lot during the early stages of my loss (my wife of 47 years transitioned on Nov 2020)

-I was also lucky to have met Dr Len LaScolea (the ultimate skeptic) and read his book For All is Love. The love story of how he connected with his wife and still does. I immediately realized that the ADC signs were real and coming from my wife and I CULTIVATED THEM!!! This is key because if you don't recognize and respond in some way I have read and been told those in the afterlife may eventually give up trying to connect with you. But they will come back if you make it clear that you will respond. But this is where your agnostic views may get in the way.

Hopefully my comments will help you and others and maybe Carol and Mikey can comment.

Antonio
 

bluebird

Major Contributor
Welcome to ALF, Antonio.

I don't think that being agnostic would interfere with my husband communicating with me, I never have. I mentioned that I am agnostic (regarding the existence of an afterlife, as well as regarding the existence of a god) in order to say that despite not knowing if an afterlife exists at all, I have experienced what may very well be signs from my husband (who, if he still exists, does so in the afterlife). Regardless of my being agnostic about the existence of an afterlife, when I have received possible signs I have always responded by thanking my husband and talking with/to him, in case he does still exist and the signs really did come from him.

I don't necessarily agree with the idea that grief "lowers vibration" and interferes with connection/communication with dead loved ones. It may be true, at least to a point, but there's no actual proof of it being the case (just as there's no proof of the opposite). It's also possible that people put forth and believe in this theory in an attempt to explain why they haven't heard from their dead loved ones, when the reason may actually be that those dead loved ones no longer exist and that there is no afterlife (please note -- I am not saying that that is the case, only that it is one possibility).

If you are right about grief lowering one's "vibration" (though I must say, while that word is often used in this context, I find it very new-agey and inexact -- not directed towards you, I mean in general, in the way many people use it in this context) and inhibiting contact/communication, then at the least it doesn't cause a complete block, as your experience and my own may demonstrate. Aside from that, though -- if grief does lower vibration and inhabit contact/communication, then that is a vastly cruel setup, and if there is a god that intentionally created that setup then it is a cruel god.

You said you are a doctor -- what is your area of practice? Also, I'm curious to know if you have read neurosurgeon Eben Alexander's book Proof of Heaven and, if so, what did you think of it?
 
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It is very nice to have someone say something about my post after having joined this site very recently after listening to Carol's presentation at Global Gatherings Sunday meetings.

I want to share a few things from my personal experience and what I have read and discussed with others.:

-First I do not think that being an agnostic will interfere with you receiving contact from your loved one. If they want to contact you they will regardless of your beliefs.

-I would not consider myself agnostic but a hard core scientist (medical doctor) You got to prove it to me kind of person

-But grief will lower your vibration and interfere with the connection but those across the veil can still come through (as my wife did during the very early stages of my loss when I was in acute grief)

-It can become a catch 22 situation...contacting those you love that are on the other side can help alleviate your grief but being in grief interferes with the contact. Doing a session of RRGT, or Loving Heart Connection can help alleviate the grief and also help connect at the same time with your love one. I just did an RRGT session last week and found it very helpful not only as a way of reducing some of the grief that was still present but also making the connection feel more alive and real.

-I was lucky because I took many courses and read a lot during the early stages of my loss (my wife of 47 years transitioned on Nov 2020)

-I was also lucky to have met Dr Len LaScolea (the ultimate skeptic) and read his book For All is Love. The love story of how he connected with his wife and still does. I immediately realized that the ADC signs were real and coming from my wife and I CULTIVATED THEM!!! This is key because if you don't recognize and respond in some way I have read and been told those in the afterlife may eventually give up trying to connect with you. But they will come back if you make it clear that you will respond. But this is where your agnostic views may get in the way.

Hopefully my comments will help you and others and maybe Carol and Mikey can comment.

Antonio
Hi Antonio! Thanks for your replies! What is RRGT? Excuse my ignorance! Thanks so much. Jessy
 

bluebird

Major Contributor
The idea of not having privacy for one's thoughts is very disturbing!!!

It would be, if this meant that dead loved ones could read our thoughts at any time -- but that's not what I meant or what I think, and I don't think it's what Carol and Mikey said either, or what the situation actually is.

If there is an afterlife, and if our dead loved ones can "hear" our thoughts, I think that is only the case when we are specifically sort of "sending" those thoughts to them, and maybe also when we are thinking about them in passing. If my husband still exists in an afterlife, I don't think he's spending any time eavesdropping on my thoughts about the latest The Walking Dead episode, or what I think of the climate change crisis, or any other (more) private thoughts.
 

Ruby

Significant Contributor
Thanks for that, bluebird. I wonder what the difference is between thinking about them in passing and specifically sort of "sending" a message their way and how to effect the latter as that would be good to know and might possibly result in a "sign". Maybe if Carol reads this she could suggest how to go about it, although she does it with her pendulum and I'm frightened of creating strange "disturbances". I should probably not look for signs and be grateful for those I've received. But it would be good to have confirmation from Mikey that those in the spirit world aren't mindreaders.
 

bluebird

Major Contributor
Well, it seems to me that "sending" a message -- telepathically broadcasting to a dead loved one, if you will -- is sort of a "call" to them. I think it's almost like a phone ringing, which they can then "pick up" -- but more often than not, the connection is such that they can "hear" us, but we can't "hear" them.

And as far as thinking about them in passing, maybe that's something like getting a text or an e-mail, where they are sort of aware it's there, but the call to answer it isn't as strong.

I suppose it's possible they could listen in on our thoughts at other times, but I really don't think that's the case -- and even if it is, I doubt they would want to do so. Presumably they have better things to do.

All of this, of course, is predicated on the existence of an afterlife at all, something of which I am not fully convinced, but I do believe it's a possibility, and I hope it's a fact.
 

Ruby

Significant Contributor
Thanks, Bluebird, I am similar; open to both persuasions.

I see that Michael Tymn's blog post this month is entitled "On absolute certainty of life after death". He concludes that there cannot be this certainty, but he is far along the road to believing in it, as readers know. He is worth reading as he is so knowledgeable, although not impartial. Another I like just now is called Paranormalia, by journalist Robert McLuhan. He stopped writing it in 2017, maybe because he was involved in writing the new PSI Encyclopedia for the Society for Psychical Research. However, it is still online and available to read.

I am away on a break just now and visited a Japanese garden the other day. The creator of the garden holds meditation classes there and I bought a CD to try it. I understand that meditation can help bring about an alteration in consciousness which can help develop psi skill (I think!!!??) I put the CD into the machine and fell asleep right away. Not sure I'm going to make great progress.
 
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