How to prevent future reincarnation from happening?

Is there a way to escape this endless loop of coming back to this dense, low-vibration existence, just to pointlessly suffer over and over again?
 

mac

Administrator
Is there a way to escape this endless loop of coming back to this dense, low-vibration existence, just to pointlessly suffer over and over again?
yes - You can make that choice when you return next time - next!
 

DenverGuy

Active Member
That's good. The concept of reincarnation holds no appeal whatsoever for me. I might be over-simplifying it, but in my case, I want my girlfriend to be there for our forever reunion. Not as something or someone else here. The frustrating thing is that we just don't know for sure. I read somewhere (it may have been Swedenborg) that we aren't supposed to know.
 
That's good. The concept of reincarnation holds no appeal whatsoever for me. I might be over-simplifying it, but in my case, I want my girlfriend to be there for our forever reunion. Not as something or someone else here. The frustrating thing is that we just don't know for sure. I read somewhere (it may have been Swedenborg) that we aren't supposed to know.
I would agree with this. Thinking about doing this life thing all over again, possibly multiple more times, is just exhausting to think about. I'm generally a very happy person but I've seen so much hate/anger in this world that when it's my time, I don't want to wash-rinse-repeat, at least for a little while.

As much as I am a firm believer in an afterlife, I have a very small fear that the tunnel many pass through after dying is just a tunnel pushing us into another body. Of course, we'd lose all memories of our previous life, that just sounds tragic to me.

Now, it's just a tiny fear as I'm a huge subscriber to many of the NDE stories I've researched through the years. I've yet to hear one of them where the individual who had the experience mentions someone on the other side telling them they are forced to reincarnate.

I am absolutely okay with settling into the afterlife for a long period of time after I pass from this world. There are some days that I feel like a seriously old soul that is now on his 5.000th incarnation. Lol

In time, I might get the urge to give this thing called life another try. I do appreciate that there is much that we can learn in these mortal coils, however.

I am also a firm believer that there are so many different multiverses, and options, available that it might be a lot of fun to give it another try.
 

mac

Administrator
There's an old saying "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing." and it seems apt. Folk try to reconcile what they hear with their current incarnation and personal spiritual progress but do not have the tools needed to do that.

Your concern, Matty Mo, about returning to another life here on this planet is one I often hear nowadays. Increasing numbers seem to be accepting the notion of survival and reincarnation - often from the many NDE accounts viewable online - but those difficult principles are seen without a broad context.

Here on ALF we have a primary focus on the so-called afterlife but few consider the 'beforelife' situation. It's like we didn't exist before we entered this world. The continuum of life, its eternal nature, is something mentioned more in passing than in depth yet an understanding of that is fundamental to the overall picture of survival.
 

Ruby

Significant Contributor
When I was a young child I went into a room and it was the most familiar place to me. I kept on exclaiming "I've been here before! I know this!" over and over which annoyed my mother who very firmly told me I'd never been there in my life before. The trouble is I no longer have the real memory, yet I just know it happened. I was so cross not to be believed and the feeling remained. It's something I knew in my early childhood and now no longer accessible. I asked my mother about it a few years ago and she apologised, but she has dementia. I doubt she'd remember even if she was in full command of her faculties, as so long ago! When my son died I wrote out memories on post-it notes just as they came to me and put them in a biscuit tin. It's strange what we remember and what gets discarded.
 

mac

Administrator
I hesitated before approving this posting and tried to contact Handoko via p.m. I'm afraid he has left us but I hope it's not for good.
 

jimrich

Established Member
Is there a way to escape this endless loop of coming back to this dense, low-vibration existence, just to pointlessly suffer over and over again?
I am guessing that, when we (Spirit) are in Heaven or on the "other side", we have a completely different perspective and feeling about this side (earth) so we might come back here because it's not so bad or we have some kind of mission/purpose for coming here. I'd guess that Spirit has the option to come back here or not.
 

amina89

Occasional Contributor
That's good. The concept of reincarnation holds no appeal whatsoever for me. I might be over-simplifying it, but in my case, I want my girlfriend to be there for our forever reunion. Not as something or someone else here. The frustrating thing is that we just don't know for sure. I read somewhere (it may have been Swedenborg) that we aren't supposed to know.

I tend to believe as Swedenborg,i believe we can grow in the spiritual world but we do not come back here

Swedenborg and Reincarnation: Rebirth in the Body vs. Rebirth of the Spirit – Swedenborg Foundation
 

mac

Administrator
Certain spirit-side teachers and guides have said that although spiritual progress can be made without incarnating into this physical dimension, experiences able to be undertaken here can greatly enhance that progress. It's also been suggested individuals are keen to undertake earth incarnations of whatever sort, even those we see as extremely challenging.

There are two possible extremes. One is that we all reincarnate repeatedly for an undefined 'time' - the 'Spiritist' teaching seen in 'The Spirits' Book' by Kardec, for example. The other is that none of us ever reincarnates. Lying somewhere in that spectrum is actuality I suggest although actuality will likely mean very different things to individuals.

I do understand, though, how difficult it is to rationalise the situation given our limited perception and recently I've found myself viewing my own position very differently from the way I used to.
 

bluebird

Major Contributor
mac,
How did you used to view it, versus how do you view it now? (If you don't mind sharing, that is.)
 

mac

Administrator
mac,
How did you used to view it, versus how do you view it now? (If you don't mind sharing, that is.)

It's not a simple issue for me, bb. Recently I did think about writing about my disillusion over some of the philosophical aspects of what's been taught about our reasons for incarnating and reincarnating. Now, though, unless I feel there's a good reason to make a specific point I don't feel as much the desire to make many points at all.

I mentioned something similar elsewhere here.
 

bluebird

Major Contributor
It's not a simple issue for me, bb. Recently I did think about writing about my disillusion over some of the philosophical aspects of what's been taught about our reasons for incarnating and reincarnating. Now, though, unless I feel there's a good reason to make a specific point I don't feel as much the desire to make many points at all.

I mentioned something similar elsewhere here.
Understood. :)
 

mac

Administrator
I decided to return to this subject although I have doubts I'll find words to adequately convey my feelings.

Reincarnation is a regular topic for discussion and debate. There is a great deal of uncertainty and I expect there's a huge amount of misunderstanding. For anyone unable to accept the notion of survival and a life beyond death of the body the companion notion of returning to this world is academic. We can't have the latter unless there's the former. That's the simple part of this conversation and everything else is hugely complex.

I used to feel comfortable I knew enough, understood enough, to be able to accept why we incarnate and eventually reincarnate. I didn't know much but I used to feel it was enough for me. I haven't changed in my certainty about the overall situation but I am beginning to feel I don't know or understand the way I used to. I'm now starting to think some is more belief than persuasion. That's anathema to me because I have declared many times that I don't do belief or faith in matters of the spirit - what I don't know is what I don't know and I won't substitute it for belief and faith.

I have heard the words of guides explaining the nature of incarnate life and multiple lives. I don't doubt they have explained the situation as best they can but I am losing confidence I can continue to accept what I've heard. My feeling is that in trying to convey in words principles all-but impossible to understand their explanations have been dumbed down to the extent they no longer work for me. (I have been having many recent concerns about communication.)

This is nothing to do with God; I was always comfortable that I don't have a single clue what God means and that hasn't changed. What's bugging me now is the idea of logic and planning in connection with life incarnate, the notion that the difficulties experienced in lives as incarnates are truly as valuable as has been suggested. Explaining is hard but just one aspect I find impossible to figure is why there is progress from millions of souls coming to this world - the exploding global population - experiencing difficulties similar to those experienced by uncountable numbers of souls in the past.

I just don't get it and I'm reaching a point where I'm not accepting there actually is the spiritual value we've been told about. That's just one small point but there is much else that is causing me issues.
 

mac

Administrator
Having said what I have in #15 I still am certain about survival and life beyond death. I have seen many examples recently of mediumship of the highest order, stuff that did not involve me in the least.

No what concerns me now are issues surrounding communication above that of evidential mediumship. It's my problem and I need to work it.
 

kim

Significant Contributor
It's also been suggested individuals are keen to undertake earth incarnations of whatever sort, even those we see as extremely challenging.
I feel this is what I have done: requested a challenging life. Sometimes everything is so good, but then at another time I am so fearful! Is there a purpose to this?
 

bluebird

Major Contributor
See, part of why I don't think suicide is inherently wrong has to do with this. If we choose to come to this planet and have a life here -- and even more so if we choose even the broadest strokes of our lives -- then IMHO we have the right to decide that we made a mistake in doing so, and choose to rectify it.
 

mac

Administrator
I feel this is what I have done: requested a challenging life. Sometimes everything is so good, but then at another time I am so fearful! Is there a purpose to this?

One definition of 'purpose' is "have as the intention or objective"

You ask if there is a purpose to it, kim, a purpose to your challenging life? Nobody in this world, of course, can be certain but you may well be bang on right that you chose your challenging life. I'm the last person to say anything against that.

But if it's hard for others to accept they chose the challenging lives they're leading you could also ask "Has there been a benefit?" On that question teachers and guides have indicated the way we deal with difficulties can enhance spiritual progress. I don't know if they would accept that as a benefit while they're still in this world.
 
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kim

Significant Contributor
But if it's hard for others to accept they chose the challenging lives they're leading you could also ask "Has there been a benefit?" On that question teachers and guides have indicated the way we deal with difficulties can enhance spiritual progress. I don't know if they would accept that as a benefit while they're still in this world.

I think others here think this world is all there is. I "forget" it too sometimes.
 

mac

Administrator
I think others here think this world is all there is. I "forget" it too sometimes.
I'm pleased it's only sometimes that you forget. :) It's sad that so many don't know this world is not the only world....
 

kim

Significant Contributor
You ask if there is a purpose to it, kim, a purpose to your challenging life? Nobody in this world, of course, can be certain but you may well be bang on right that you chose your challenging life. I'm the last person to say anything against that.

Thanks for posting this Mac. I've found myself thinking of your words quite a bit today in order to keep my attitude on a higher plane. :)
 

mac

Administrator
Thanks for posting this Mac. I've found myself thinking of your words quite a bit today in order to keep my attitude on a higher plane. :)
I'm heartened to hear it's helped you a little, kim, but I continue to have misgivings when writing about so-called life plans, the ones we make for ourselves when preparing for another life in this world.

In recent years I've become familiar with a pair of related notions but I can't for the life of me remember if I encountered them elsewhere in my earlier years - life plans and exit points. I certainly can't recall any reference to them in Spiritualism's teachings and philosophy, the ones that underpin much of my understanding. That doesn't make those notions invalid but I'm leery of things that may simply be 'New Age' versions of earlier teachings that have been misinterpreted and/or misunderstood. And I've always been leery of 'making things fit'.

If I consider a situation that turned out to have been a key point in my life, did that event come about because I and others had chosen and agreed it before I incarnated? Or was it simply misfortune, something that ended up changing the direction of my life in so many ways? The way other things change the lives of other people.

Even after 30 odd years 'in the spooks' I don't know, and don't expect to know, the answer before I pass over. The outcome wouldn't be different either way but I still can't help wondering about things, just as you wonder about your life, kim. And because I personally don't have my answer I'm not prepared to ascribe more to what happened than is warranted.

That leaves me in a slightly awkward position. Should I tell others what I've heard but don't feel persuaded about or should I just say nothing? One thing's for sure. I don't have enough sources saying similar things about both the issues above whereas I'm comfortable with the message of survival I've heard from various other sources and comfortable with my own experience, albeit limited experience.

Recently I've found myself drawn back to what I've said on a number of occasions. Perhaps 'those over there' who can most easily be reached and communicated with may be the ones least able to help explain anything other than the simplest of situations. Put in a different way, maybe those who have the necessary understanding have moved beyond the levels where they can be contacted directly or more commonly by mediumship/channeling.

What a time of life to be doubting myself......:(
 

kim

Significant Contributor
In recent years I've become familiar with a pair of related notions but I can't for the life of me remember if I encountered them elsewhere in my earlier years - life plans and exit points.
Are you experiencing something in the line of Deja vu?
 

mac

Administrator
Are you experiencing something in the line of Deja vu?
oh, no - It's just my memory failure! :D

Seriously, though, on those subjects I simply can't be sure if I'd heard them elsewhere and elsewhen BUT I'm fairly sure it's been recently and from certain sources.
 
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