Coronavirus -- Stay Well!

jobun

Occasional Contributor
Maybe, mac. I think it's at least partially down to the worldwide sense of depression, sadness, and anger -- about the virus, the politics, the insanity, and the general state of the world.
true for me, I've felt more depression than ever lately, and sometimes can't function, but I'm also grieving the loss of 2 very beloved Aunt's that have passed - one in November rather unexpectedly, and one just two weeks ago, expected but still upsetting. Plus there is so much negativity in the world right now, me, as an empath, can't deal with it. it's too much. Even though I block a lot of it, it's still constantly blasting out all around, no matter where you turn. I am making a huge effort to get past it though.
 

bluebird

Major Contributor
Same here, jobun. I need to be able to do my work, or I won't be able to pay rent and other bills, and if I stop too much to think about things (my husband's death, health concerns, financial concerns, Covid, right-wing idiots, etc.), I won't be able to get work done (it's hard enough to get it done in my constant state of depression). Thankfully I'm mostly work-from-home now; I only have to go into the office one day per week. It's definitely easier on me than going to the office four days a week, as I was doing pre-Covid, because I can -- and do -- have the tv on nearly constantly, to keep me distracted (for the most part I can work with the tv on).

I'm sorry to hear about the deaths of your aunt's. ((((hugs))))
 

bluebird

Major Contributor
Has anyone gotten their covid shots yet? I got my first shot (Moderna) about 3 weeks ago, and will get my second shot in about a week & a half. I am scared of and hate needles, but I have to say that this shot didn't hurt at all -- I barely even felt it (thankfully, the needle is very thin, which is why it doesn't hurt). As for side effects -- a bit of swelling at the site, and it hurt for about two days as if someone had punched me really hard, and I had a decently sized and colorful bruise for two weeks, but that was it. After those first couple of days, it didn't even hurt.

I'll be glad to get the second shot. They say the first one provides about 50% protection (starting about two weeks after you get it), and the second brings that up to about 95% (again, starting about two weeks after you get the shot), which makes me feel a bit better. I will still keep wearing a mask and social distancing, probably for at least another year, but having the shots does make me worry less.

So, how about you?
 

Monika

Active Member
I didn't get it yet but i got to know that before summer everyone who wants to get it will be able to do so. Im still considering if i shall take it or not. Depends if i can get the one that doesnt contain live virus as this vaccine with virus is not recommended for people with lupus. I have extremely strong immune system and dont want to mess with it. It is nice when it is working properly and i dont really want that it turns against me :) Before vaccine i would do antibody test because i was a lot around people with covid during this long corona period so it might also be that i had it just without symptoms.
 

mac

Administrator
My wife and I got our first shots in January, Oxford AstraZeneca. Tests showed that vaccine was found to provide around 90% protection after 2 to 3 weeks, the efficacy actually improving the longer between first and second doses.

In the UK the decision was made to give as many first doses to as many individuals as possible as quickly as possible with 12 weeks between vaccinations. The technical aspects are somewhat complex and I've sometimes struggled to keep my eye on all the issues involved. Scientists and political systems in other countries have reached different decisions. Like much else in this world it ain't as simple as one might wish! ;)

I had almost no reaction to my jab. My wife, by contrast, had a high temperature and was feverish for 24 hours, a bit under the weather for another day and her arm was painful for several days - as it has often been after other injections. The actual injection wasn't uncomfortable for either of us thankfully. We get our second doses early May, the 12 week period between the two.

Both of us plan to continue taking precautions but the UK has only just begun to lift restrictions and has some way to go - late June at the earliest - before restrictions are totally lifted. Whether we'll keep going if many others drop their guard will remain to be seen. Maintaining our resolve in the longer term may not appear so important if the situation improves in ways we can't anticipate.

But resolve may be vital if things don't work out, if variants threaten the progress made, if we face a new wave of infections, hospital admissions and deaths. Nobody knows what the future will bring. We are in uncharted waters, unprecedented times and situations.
 

Ruby

Significant Contributor
I've just had my first shot half an hour ago. It's great to see this great cooperation going on. Funny to join a queue with people all your own age too! I can't wait to get rid of the horrible masks.
 

bluebird

Major Contributor
I didn't get it yet but i got to know that before summer everyone who wants to get it will be able to do so. Im still considering if i shall take it or not. Depends if i can get the one that doesnt contain live virus as this vaccine with virus is not recommended for people with lupus. I have extremely strong immune system and dont want to mess with it. It is nice when it is working properly and i dont really want that it turns against me :) Before vaccine i would do antibody test because i was a lot around people with covid during this long corona period so it might also be that i had it just without symptoms.
I would definitely consult with your doctor about this, if I were you (also, sorry to hear about the lupus, but I'm glad your immune system is strong!). One of my coworkers always has reactions to immunizations -- she told me she once got the flu shot and ended up with symptoms so bad she had to see her doctor, who told her that her reaction was worse than if she'd actually just caught the flu. She and her doctor are going to investigate all the possible shot options in order to determine if one of them is less likely to provoke a bad reaction in her.

If you can get one of the shots, you probably should (IMHO, but I am not a medical professional, so this is not medical advice), but if you can't then hopefully you will be protected anyway as we reach herd immunity. In the meantime, just keep being safe, wearing masks and social distancing, etc. May I ask how/why you were around a lot of people who had covid?
 

bluebird

Major Contributor
My wife and I got our first shots in January, Oxford AstraZeneca. Tests showed that vaccine was found to provide around 90% protection after 2 to 3 weeks, the efficacy actually improving the longer between first and second doses.

In the UK the decision was made to give as many first doses to as many individuals as possible as quickly as possible with 12 weeks between vaccinations. The technical aspects are somewhat complex and I've sometimes struggled to keep my eye on all the issues involved. Scientists and political systems in other countries have reached different decisions. Like much else in this world it ain't as simple as one might wish! ;)

I had almost no reaction to my jab. My wife, by contrast, had a high temperature and was feverish for 24 hours, a bit under the weather for another day and her arm was painful for several days - as it has often been after other injections. The actual injection wasn't uncomfortable for either of us thankfully. We get our second doses early May, the 12 week period between the two.

Both of us plan to continue taking precautions but the UK has only just begun to lift restrictions and has some way to go - late June at the earliest - before restrictions are totally lifted. Whether we'll keep going if many others drop their guard will remain to be seen. Maintaining our resolve in the longer term may not appear so important if the situation improves in ways we can't anticipate.

But resolve may be vital if things don't work out, if variants threaten the progress made, if we face a new wave of infections, hospital admissions and deaths. Nobody knows what the future will bring. We are in uncharted waters, unprecedented times and situations.
I'm glad you and your wife were able to get your shots. Here in the U.S. they're scheduling shot 2 for about one month after shot 1 (at least for Moderna; not sure if the same is true for Pfizer and AstraZeneca). It seems that regardless of the version of the shot one gets, it's been pretty universal that the injection itself is painless or close to it, so that's good. Sorry to hear your wife had a bit of a reaction, though from what you said that seems to be par for her course. The painful arm, at least for me, really wasn't bad -- it hurt if I lifted my arm, but only in that one area of my arm, and when I wasn't lifting my arm it didn't hurt at all. The bruise lasted about two weeks, though, disappearing day-by-day.

I didn't realize the UK was planning to totally lift restrictions anytime soon, such as by June -- I have to say, I do not think that's a good idea. Does that mean that masks and social distancing will no longer be required? I agree that we are in uncharted, unprecendented times....
 

bluebird

Major Contributor
I've just had my first shot half an hour ago. It's great to see this great cooperation going on. Funny to join a queue with people all your own age too! I can't wait to get rid of the horrible masks.
Which version of the shot did you get? Did the injection hurt? Have you had any side effects? Glad you got it, in any case.

When I went to get my first shot, the queue wasn't all people of the same age, since there are a number of risk factors that allow one to get the shot right now (high blood pressure, asthma, lung disease, obesity, age....), so the line had all kinds of people in it. It seems as though week by week eligibility is being opened to more and more people/groups, and hopefully everyone will be able to get her/his shots within just a few months. I see that you are in the UK, so I guess it's different over there -- are only people over a certain age eligible to receive the shots at the moment?

I don't actually like wearing the masks, but as I said I don't intend to stop wearing them for at least another year -- too many idiots in the U.S. are not wearing theirs, and will not get the shots, so I don't plan to stop wearing masks until enough time has passed for for the idiots to either benefit from herd immunity or die off (no ill will intended on my part, I just don't want to get Covid because of them).
 

mac

Administrator
I'm glad you and your wife were able to get your shots. Here in the U.S. they're scheduling shot 2 for about one month after shot 1 (at least for Moderna; not sure if the same is true for Pfizer and AstraZeneca). It seems that regardless of the version of the shot one gets, it's been pretty universal that the injection itself is painless or close to it, so that's good. Sorry to hear your wife had a bit of a reaction, though from what you said that seems to be par for her course. The painful arm, at least for me, really wasn't bad -- it hurt if I lifted my arm, but only in that one area of my arm, and when I wasn't lifting my arm it didn't hurt at all. The bruise lasted about two weeks, though, disappearing day-by-day.

I didn't realize the UK was planning to totally lift restrictions anytime soon, such as by June -- I have to say, I do not think that's a good idea. Does that mean that masks and social distancing will no longer be required? I agree that we are in uncharted, unprecendented times....

Our Prime Minister and his government have drawn up a so-called road map out of lockdown. There is a set of timed steps with 'not before' dates, monitoring and assessment taking place after each step to see what the outcome on infection rates is. If things don't happen the way it's hoped/planned there could be delays but if all goes to plan June 21 is the date we're expecting a lifting of current restrictions. It seems the expectation of social distancing and wearing masks will be lifted at that time but we'll see. Much could happen between now and then.

In the meantime we can't leave the country other than for special or exceptional reasons. There's also talk of continuing true-quarantine for travelers entering this country. Infection rates are very high in parts of Europe and our government is desperate not to allow in to our country virus variants from other countries. It's draconian but our PM has had his fingers burned on several occasions and seems determined he'll not have it happen to him again.
 

mac

Administrator
When I went to get my first shot, the queue wasn't all people of the same age, since there are a number of risk factors that allow one to get the shot right now (high blood pressure, asthma, lung disease, obesity, age....), so the line had all kinds of people in it. It seems as though week by week eligibility is being opened to more and more people/groups, and hopefully everyone will be able to get her/his shots within just a few months. I see that you are in the UK, so I guess it's different over there -- are only people over a certain age eligible to receive the shots at the moment?

When vaccination began our government drew up a list of group priorities. Oldest - 90 years plus - and care home residents plus special categories were first. Then 80 year olds etc down through the age bands. Over 50s planned to be completed by mid April, everyone in the country by mid July. You can't request/order a jab until your age band is underway but then you order it yourself online or by phone.
 

bluebird

Major Contributor
Our Prime Minister and his government have drawn up a so-called road map out of lockdown. There is a set of timed steps with 'not before' dates, monitoring and assessment taking place after each step to see what the outcome on infection rates is. If things don't happen the way it's hoped/planned there could be delays but if all goes to plan June 21 is the date we're expecting a lifting of current restrictions. It seems the expectation of social distancing and wearing masks will be lifted at that time but we'll see. Much could happen between now and then.

In the meantime we can't leave the country other than for special or exceptional reasons. There's also talk of continuing true-quarantine for travelers entering this country. Infection rates are very high in parts of Europe and our government is desperate not to allow in to our country virus variants from other countries. It's draconian but our PM has had his fingers burned on several occasions and seems determined he'll not have it happen to him again.
I don't think it's draconian at all -- preventing people from entering the country is one way to contain the spread of the virus. In my opinion, lifting the current restrictions in terms of masks and social distancing is a bad idea, and will likely lead to an increase in virus transmission -- I hope I'm wrong about that, and most likely a high immunization rate will help counteract lifting the restrictions, but I still think it's bad leadership to do so. We have idiots in our own government (US) who have lifted or plan to lift restrictions, and the idiot hordes are glad for it. Thankfully, many local leaders and private businesses are being smart about it and continuing to enforce restrictions, and the non-idiot citizens are still following the mandates to socially distance, wear masks, etc.
 

mac

Administrator
I don't think it's draconian at all -- preventing people from entering the country is one way to contain the spread of the virus. In my opinion, lifting the current restrictions in terms of masks and social distancing is a bad idea, and will likely lead to an increase in virus transmission -- I hope I'm wrong about that, and most likely a high immunization rate will help counteract lifting the restrictions, but I still think it's bad leadership to do so. We have idiots in our own government (US) who have lifted or plan to lift restrictions, and the idiot hordes are glad for it. Thankfully, many local leaders and private businesses are being smart about it and continuing to enforce restrictions.

It's draconian for our country because it's not the Brit way.

It's known there will be an infection rate increase at each stage of easing the lockdown restrictions and that had been factored into the overall plan, especially in light of all citizens being offered a jab by mid July. These are phased, national plans and will be monitored nationally at each stage. Our countries are too small for local plans to work safely, be they the ideas of business leader or local counsellors.

Without exception NOBODY knows the 'right' way or the best way. We're in uncharted waters with a compass that may or may not be helping our progress towards an acceptable destination, even if that's not our home port.

There will be a cost, people will die on the journey and that's been factored in too. Everyone holds a personal view on the situation and even politicians who have agreed a plan may hold personal views that don't sit comfortably with the plan they have voted to support. That's life.
 

bluebird

Major Contributor
It's draconian for our country because it's not the Brit way.

It's known there will be an infection rate increase at each stage of easing the lockdown restrictions and that had been factored into the overall plan, especially in light of all citizens being offered a jab by mid July. These are phased, national plans and will be monitored nationally at each stage. Our countries are too small for local plans to work safely, be they the ideas of business leader or local counsellors.

Without exception NOBODY knows the 'right' way or the best way. We're in uncharted waters with a compass that may or may not be helping our progress towards an acceptable destination, even if that's not our home port.

There will be a cost, people will die on the journey and that's been factored in too. Everyone holds a personal view on the situation and even politicians who have agreed a plan may hold personal views that don't sit comfortably with the plan they have voted to support. That's life.

Just to be clear -- while I do believe that my way of thinking about this (in terms of travel, easing restrictions, etc.) is safer than allowing the restrictions to lapse, and while I believe the evidence supports this assertion, I'm not saying that the governments of countries are required to make their laws/rules/etc. based on what I think. Each country and government must do as it feels is right. I simply don't think that even one death is worth it just so that people can go on holiday or back to school or back to the office, etc. The only argument with any validity, in my opinion, is the argument of people needing to go back to work in order to feed their families and pay their bills, but really even in that case I think to the extent possible governments ought to provide social programs and benefits and money to their citizens (on which count the UK performs exponentially better than the US).
 

Monika

Active Member
I would definitely consult with your doctor about this, if I were you (also, sorry to hear about the lupus, but I'm glad your immune system is strong!). One of my coworkers always has reactions to immunizations -- she told me she once got the flu shot and ended up with symptoms so bad she had to see her doctor, who told her that her reaction was worse than if she'd actually just caught the flu. She and her doctor are going to investigate all the possible shot options in order to determine if one of them is less likely to provoke a bad reaction in her.

If you can get one of the shots, you probably should (IMHO, but I am not a medical professional, so this is not medical advice), but if you can't then hopefully you will be protected anyway as we reach herd immunity. In the meantime, just keep being safe, wearing masks and social distancing, etc. May I ask how/why you were around a lot of people who had covid?
Yes, i agree with you about the consultation with doctor and I have contact with my doctor from my country in case i need some advice. And about me being around people with covid so it is so that most of my friends im in contact with are in tourism business. They get it from tourists. If i would know someone is sick with covid i wouldnt go for a visit but every time we got to know this just after. Now it is much easier because you can just buy test and do it by yourself. Before that it was a bit more tricky as there is no hospital here. There is a health center but it had not enough medical staff to manage with daily amounts of tests. My very first interaction with it was in early february of 2020. A friend i live with got very sick and ended up in emergency. We spent several days in stroke rehab (because there is no other place to put sick people who needs extra oxygen). I was allowed to be there and help medical staff so they didnt need to get into full protecting clothes while bringing food or medicine. The day my friend was released visiting doctor said that it is my turn now. But luckily i never got any symptoms :)
 

bluebird

Major Contributor
Monika,

I'm glad you are still well, I guess I just don't understand why you would go out and be with your friends in the middle of a pandemic, especially friends who are in tourism and who are still interacting with the public. I have barely even seen my family members during the past year, much less anyone else -- it's just much safer that way.

The other thing is that you could very well have had covid but remained asymptomatic (without symptoms), during which time you would still have been contagious to others.
 

Monika

Active Member
I completely understand your concerns! Maybe recommendations here are different. I know from my parents that in my homeland they have restrictions. Here we dont need to wear masks. I wear it anyway when i go to shop and i see some older people wearing them but thats pretty much all. Of course bigger evens indoors are not being organised (even if they would be people simply wouldnt go) but events outdoors happen. People actually are recommended to be outdoors as much as possible as well as meeting with family and friends to avoid possible psychological problems from too less social interaction. If i know i got to be with someone who tested positive to covid i just simply work from home for 3 days. If no simptoms appears, im good to go back to office.
 

bluebird

Major Contributor
The thing is that even if your government doesn't require you to wear masks, you should do so anyway, because the virus doesn't give a damn what's required or legal or whatever -- if people are in close proximity to each other and are not wearing masks, and if even one person in the group has covid, then the virus will spread. I'm glad that you do wear a mask when you go out, regardless of the rules/laws. Why do you only quarantine for 3 days, though, when you know you've been exposed to someone who tested positive? That isn't nearly long enough -- the recommended self-quarantine after exposure is 14 days. Symptoms, if they show up at all (some people are covid-positive but have no symptoms), can take that long to show up. If you are exposed, you should quarantine for 14 days, then get tested, and if you test negative then only at that point should you go back to the office or be anywhere near other people.

It is true that psychological problems are on the increase due to people not being able to interact with others to the extent that they could pre-virus, but IMHO while that is important, it is less important than staying away from other people in order to keep virus transmission as low as possible. If a person is depressed or anxious due to lack of interaction with family and friends, that sucks, but hopefully s/he can interact virtually or at a distance. If s/he catches covid and dies or gets seriously ill or even only gets mildly ill but ends up with long-term medical problems as a result (which is happening to a lot of people), then spending time with loved ones wasn't worth it.

That last paragraph isn't specifically about or towards you, Monika, I mean it in general. I know I'm kind of a hard-ass about this covid stuff, but I truly don't understand why anyone would be otherwise, given how very dangerous and highly transmissible covid is.
 

Monika

Active Member
The thing is that even if your government doesn't require you to wear masks, you should do so anyway, because the virus doesn't give a damn what's required or legal or whatever -- if people are in close proximity to each other and are not wearing masks, and if even one person in the group has covid, then the virus will spread. I'm glad that you do wear a mask when you go out, regardless of the rules/laws. Why do you only quarantine for 3 days, though, when you know you've been exposed to someone who tested positive? That isn't nearly long enough -- the recommended self-quarantine after exposure is 14 days. Symptoms, if they show up at all (some people are covid-positive but have no symptoms), can take that long to show up. If you are exposed, you should quarantine for 14 days, then get tested, and if you test negative then only at that point should you go back to the office or be anywhere near other people.

It is true that psychological problems are on the increase due to people not being able to interact with others to the extent that they could pre-virus, but IMHO while that is important, it is less important than staying away from other people in order to keep virus transmission as low as possible. If a person is depressed or anxious due to lack of interaction with family and friends, that sucks, but hopefully s/he can interact virtually or at a distance. If s/he catches covid and dies or gets seriously ill or even only gets mildly ill but ends up with long-term medical problems as a result (which is happening to a lot of people), then spending time with loved ones wasn't worth it.

That last paragraph isn't specifically about or towards you, Monika, I mean it in general. I know I'm kind of a hard-ass about this covid stuff, but I truly don't understand why anyone would be otherwise, given how very dangerous and highly transmissible covid is.
I understand that what you write is from your deep concerns about the situation and it is completely ok and acceptable for me, Bluebird. I really dont know why 3 days is enough here and i dont know why it is not 14. Im not sure if there is one right way to deal with situation. Most likely the situation and the ways to deal with are also different in areas where a lot of people are living close to each other. I agree with you that we need to take care of one another and be as safe as possible. So take care and stay safe, Bluebird! And i will do so too! ♡♡♡
 

Ruby

Significant Contributor
Hi Monika, how nice to read your charming English again!!
The Swedish government was bravely trying a herd immunity approach for quite a long time. In the UK we tried this right at the start I believe, but lost our nerve when the numbers of infections started to rise. This was the period now referred to when people tiresomely say we should have locked down sooner, although it was all a great unknown. Sweden will come out of it with their economy in much better shape. For a long time it worked well for them, although there were a lot more deaths than in neighbouring Scandinavian countries, a lot of them in care homes. It has to be remembered that it is a mild illness in the majority of people. Unfortunately they have had the same experience as the rest of Europe. Cases have risen and now there are more restrictions in Sweden. For many months we had photos of Swedes at outdoor cafes socially distanced but everything open for business and many thought this would have been a better approach for us. The science guy in Sweden who was behind their approach has not suffered from lack of support, but they have just had to scale back on their herd approach. I hate this expression - as if we all have hooves.
 

Monika

Active Member
Hi Monika, how nice to read your charming English again!!
The Swedish government was bravely trying a herd immunity approach for quite a long time. In the UK we tried this right at the start I believe, but lost our nerve when the numbers of infections started to rise. This was the period now referred to when people tiresomely say we should have locked down sooner, although it was all a great unknown. Sweden will come out of it with their economy in much better shape. For a long time it worked well for them, although there were a lot more deaths than in neighbouring Scandinavian countries, a lot of them in care homes. It has to be remembered that it is a mild illness in the majority of people. Unfortunately they have had the same experience as the rest of Europe. Cases have risen and now there are more restrictions in Sweden. For many months we had photos of Swedes at outdoor cafes socially distanced but everything open for business and many thought this would have been a better approach for us. The science guy in Sweden who was behind their approach has not suffered from lack of support, but they have just had to scale back on their herd approach. I hate this expression - as if we all have hooves.
Hej Ruby! Hope everything is fine at you! :) hopefully some day when it will be safe to travel again we meet here!
 

bluebird

Major Contributor
I understand that what you write is from your deep concerns about the situation and it is completely ok and acceptable for me, Bluebird. I really dont know why 3 days is enough here and i dont know why it is not 14. Im not sure if there is one right way to deal with situation. Most likely the situation and the ways to deal with are also different in areas where a lot of people are living close to each other. I agree with you that we need to take care of one another and be as safe as possible. So take care and stay safe, Bluebird! And i will do so too! ♡♡♡
Thank you for understanding my concerns, and for your kindness. :)
 

bluebird

Major Contributor
Hi Monika, how nice to read your charming English again!!
The Swedish government was bravely trying a herd immunity approach for quite a long time. In the UK we tried this right at the start I believe, but lost our nerve when the numbers of infections started to rise. This was the period now referred to when people tiresomely say we should have locked down sooner, although it was all a great unknown. Sweden will come out of it with their economy in much better shape. For a long time it worked well for them, although there were a lot more deaths than in neighbouring Scandinavian countries, a lot of them in care homes. It has to be remembered that it is a mild illness in the majority of people. Unfortunately they have had the same experience as the rest of Europe. Cases have risen and now there are more restrictions in Sweden. For many months we had photos of Swedes at outdoor cafes socially distanced but everything open for business and many thought this would have been a better approach for us. The science guy in Sweden who was behind their approach has not suffered from lack of support, but they have just had to scale back on their herd approach. I hate this expression - as if we all have hooves.

It wasn't brave of the Swedish government to try a herd immunity approach so early when faced with a pandemic -- it was foolhardy. Sure, Sweden's economy may be in better shape, but that doesn't help the multitude of dead.

COVID-19 is a minor illness in some people, but not in the majority -- or at least not in an overwhelming majority. I don't have the exact figures, but while a lot of people don't get too ill, a lot of people get horribly ill and/or die, and a lot of people are somewhere in the middle. My coworker's husband had it -- he's in his early 40s, fit and healthy, no pre-existing health problems, and it laid him out for over a month, with him feeling like crap the entire time. Furthermore, the long-term effects can be devastating, even in people who had mild cases -- heart and circulatory disease, lung disease, neurological problems, etc. Covid is dangerous, and our response to it must be as vehement as possible.
 

Ruby

Significant Contributor
I think that because of the evolving understanding of a new disease, certain things were unknown early on, like asymptomatic transmission. It is very unfortunate.
Apparently now the French have it raging and previously we have caught up with them in numbers three weeks later. Meanwhile EU governments reject the use of the Astra Zeneca vaccine which has caused a few blood clots at a risk of 1/100,000, while the risk of blood clots due to Covid is much greater.
 

bluebird

Major Contributor
I think that because of the evolving understanding of a new disease, certain things were unknown early on, like asymptomatic transmission. It is very unfortunate.
Apparently now the French have it raging and previously we have caught up with them in numbers three weeks later. Meanwhile EU governments reject the use of the Astra Zeneca vaccine which has caused a few blood clots at a risk of 1/100,000, while the risk of blood clots due to Covid is much greater.

Fair point, about the asymptomatic transmission being unknown early on.

I was just reading that France is going to a higher level lockdown right now -- hopefully that will make a difference.

I had read about Astra Zeneca and blood clots, but I thought they determined, after research, that there was no link between that vaccine and blood clots? Regardless, I'm glad the vaccine I got and will be getting is Moderna, just in case.
 

mac

Administrator
I had read about Astra Zeneca and blood clots, but I thought they determined, after research, that there was no link between that vaccine and blood clots? Regardless, I'm glad the vaccine I got and will be getting is Moderna, just in case.

It's hard to prove a negative. Any link between these rare blood clots and the Oxford developed vaccine causing them is as yet unproven. I hope there isn't one but give a dog a bad name.....
 

bluebird

Major Contributor
It's hard to prove a negative. Any link between these rare blood clots and the Oxford developed vaccine causing them is as yet unproven. I hope there isn't one but give a dog a bad name.....
True. Hopefully there is no correlation, and it was just an aberration in a few people.
 

bluebird

Major Contributor
Well, my sister and I got our second Moderna shots yesterday. Oddly, while it's the same size needle, this one (the actual shot) hurt a bit more -- still not badly, though. If the first actual shot was a .5 on a pain scale of 1 to 10, this one was a 1, maybe a 1.5. For a needle-phobe like me, still very bearable. My sister reported the same.

I am having more side effects from this second shot, though, as is common (especially for women, according to a few articles I was just reading). Still nothing terrible, though. My arm hurts in the same way as it did from the first shot, though no bruise this time (at least so far). I am having body aches, sort of like one would have with the flu, but by no means awful. I also had chills last night while trying to sleep -- I couldn't seem to get warm, which is very unusual for me (I'm over-sensitive to heat, not cold), so I just put on a sweatshirt and turned up the heat a bit, and that helped. I definitely don't have a fever. (Fun fact -- my temperature tends to run low at all times anyway, usually in the range of 96.8 to 98. When the nurse at CVS took my temp yesterday before giving me the shot, it was something like 97.5.) I don't actually feel sick -- this is SO MUCH better than actually getting Covid! Honestly, I've had colds which were way worse than this (I hate having a stuffy nose/head, it is my most hated cold symptom, and it is not present as a covid shot side effect, at least for me) -- I'd rate the side effects from this second shot at maybe a 3 on that 1 to 10 scale. Good to know my immune system is doing its thing and responding appropriately to protect me from the virus (although if you get your second shot and you don't have any reaction / side effects, that does not mean that it isn't working for you).

So, the side effects I'm having are very much in line with those expected (my sister is having similar side effects, with the addition of a very slight fever and nausea / tummy trouble -- but she is prone to tummy issues anyway). Apparently the side effects only last 1 to 3 days, so I can deal with that -- plus I'm working from home today and am off tomorrow, so it should pretty much all be gone by Thursday (when I have to go to the office) anyway.

FYI, from what I've just been reading, it's ok to take Advil or whatever pain reliever is appropriate for you after getting the shot, to deal with any side effects, but you should not take any pain reliever or anti-histamine (in case of allergic reaction) before getting the shot, as they don't know if could interfere with the efficacy of the medication. (As far as an allergic reaction, wherever you get the shot is supposed to keep you there for 15-30 minutes after you receive it, to be sure that you don't have a reaction, or to counteract it with an Epipen -- which they are required to have on hand -- if you do.)

Anyone else want to share their immunization experiences?
 

mac

Administrator
What you experienced with your second shot, bb, was very similar indeed to how my wife was on the first jab. We haven't had seconds as in the UK there's a 12 week break between first and second - ours is scheduled May 1. It does appear the second has effects similar, or slightly worse, than the first one, something I hadn't expected.

Ours is the AstraZeneca manufactured vaccine and I was little affected first time so my fingers will be crossed for May 1st but at least we're prepared!

We both use Paracetamol - acetaminophen - for pain relief and also for its temperature stabilization properties. My wife - somewhat reluctantly - also takes Ibuprofen at times because it's a good anti-inflammatory and helps her with injection site inflammation/swelling. I have a sensitive gut, though, that doesn't tolerate Ibuprofen.
 

bluebird

Major Contributor
Honestly, while the side effects are annoying and not fun, they are infinitely better than actually having Covid. Right now I'm making some soup, so that I can eat that and then take some Advil (ibubrofen), which will hopefully take care of or at least minimize the body aches (I don't like to take it on an empty stomach, otherwise I would have tummy troubles).

I'm surprised to hear that your wife experienced my 2nd-shot symptoms on her first shot....in the articles I was reading, the point was made that older adults tend to have fewer side effects from the shots. Still, at least her immune system is doing its job!

Is the 12 week break between the first and second shots a UK thing, or an AstraZeneca thing? There's only a 28 day (4 week) gap between Moderna shots (the vaccine I received), and a 21 day (3 week) gap between Pfizer shots. I don't personally know anyone who has received AstraZeneca, so I don't know the protocol for that one.
 

mac

Administrator
Honestly, while the side effects are annoying and not fun, they are infinitely better than actually having Covid. Right now I'm making some soup, so that I can eat that and then take some Advil (ibubrofen), which will hopefully take care of or at least minimize the body aches (I don't like to take it on an empty stomach, otherwise I would have tummy troubles).

I agree with you. Side effects are no fun but they're vastly better than the viral infection.

I'm surprised to hear that your wife experienced my 2nd-shot symptoms on her first shot....in the articles I was reading, the point was made that older adults tend to have fewer side effects from the shots. Still, at least her immune system is doing its job!
I guess it's just one of those things, bb. She's not usually over-reactive to injections although a painful arm is par for the course.

Is the 12 week break between the first and second shots a UK thing, or an AstraZeneca thing?
It was a decision made by our government following guidance given by scientists. The data showed the injection's efficacy actually improves a little over several weeks from the near 92% level shown in first test data. The reasoning was that we'd get as many vaccinated as possible as quickly as possible rather than giving the early takers 1st then 2nd doses just a few weeks apart. Doing that would increase the efficacy only slightly but would delay first doses for less-old citizens. A schedule was drawn up by age group, the oldest and most vulnerable first down to the youngest in later months. The rationale was that the young tend not to be so badly affected if they do become infected.

There's only a 28 day (4 week) gap between Moderna shots (the vaccine I received), and a 21 day (3 week) gap between Pfizer shots. I don't personally know anyone who has received AstraZeneca, so I don't know the protocol for that one.
There is so much information about the various vaccines that I gave up trying to understand the protocols drawn up by the various governments and agencies. For us it's a 12 week gap between doses whatever vaccine is used because - as I understand things - the data show similar things for the different vaccines the UK scheme is using.
 

bluebird

Major Contributor
I suppose each country is setting its own guidelines; I was under the impression that the vaccine makers had released their own guidelines about the timeframe for the shots.

The one thing the U.S. is doing right in this pandemic is getting as many shots into as many arms as possible, now that we have a capable, functioning, intelligent adult in the White House, who listens to and implements scientific advice from experts. So far over 60 million people in the U.S. have been fully vaccinated, but we still have a long way to go. Unfortunately we have a fairly large contigent of idiots who are refusing to get any of the shots, but we also have a large contigent who are smart enough to follow science and get the shots.
 

mac

Administrator
I THINK this is what happened, perhaps not exactly in this order. The test data for the vaccines under consideration were provided by manufacturers and their effectiveness was reviewed by independent scientist groups.

Our government then reviewed all the data and drew up the UK's vaccination protocol after consulting with the scientists in its Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies( SAGE ) and the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency ( MHRA ), the UK's regulator of medicines, medical devices and blood components for transfusion, responsible for ensuring their safety, quality and effectiveness.

The PfizerBioNTech vaccine was the first to gain approval, the Oxford AstraZeneca vaccine followed. The vaccination schedule applied to both equally.

Our government always takes great pains to reinforce that political decisions are taken collaboratively by Downing Street cabinet members who take into their consideration the various views and guidance provided by scientists, statisticians and infection modelers.

Also we have the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation. The Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI) advises UK health departments on immunisation.

The Moderna vaccine is to be administered today in the UK for the first time.

I've been impressed that the US appears to have gotten its vaccination scheme working better than I once feared but just like in the UK there's a ways to go before most of your and our citizens have been offered a full set of vaccinations. By that time I'm expecting the need for a booster jab for emergent variants will be announced, sometime late summer into the fall and through winter.

Incidentally I've heard the once-mocked Russian 'Sputnik' vaccine is also a highly effective vaccine.
 
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bluebird

Major Contributor
It sounds as though the UK conducted a thorough investigation into the best way to go about implementing a program to get vaccines into people. :)

I didn't realize Moderna hadn't yet been given in the UK; it's good that it's now available there, as the more (legitimate) vaccine types are available, the more actual shots are available and the more people can get their vaccines quickly.

I'm also impressed by Biden's and Fauci's (etc.) ability to get the vaccine distributed and into people's arms. Amazing what's possible when we have good leaders in place who listen to scientific experts rather than crooked politicians and cronies, eh? ;)

I agree that we will all need to get a booster, though I don't know if it will need to be in response to the variants, as so far the experts have said the current vaccines are good against the variants as well (though if other, more divergent variants appear, that could change). Even if the variants don't present a problem for the current vaccines, though, vaccinated people will still need boosters in 6 months or a year or so.

I don't think I've ever heard of the "Sputnik" vaccine. I hope it is effective, and that the Russian people (and others?) are able to get it. Putin is not known for his humanitarianism, to say the least....
 

mac

Administrator
How are you feeling today, bb? A friend in Palm Springs had her second at the weekend and reported an aching arm and tiredness.
 

bluebird

Major Contributor
I think China is going to use Sputnik.....
Good; that's a lot of people who can get that vaccine.

Incidentally, as far as my own side effects -- I took some Advil yesterday around 3pm, and it really helped, getting rid of maybe 90% of the body aches and chills. I took another couple of Advil at bedtime, even thought I still felt ok, just because I wanted to get some sleep without waking up with aches/chills and the Advil would head that off. I didn't get aches or chills, and had a decent night's sleep -- I actually slept from about 1 am to 11 am, which is rare for me (I usually only get 4 to 7 hours of sleep a night, even with a sleeping pill), which I'm guessing was, at least in part, due to the fatigue they say the vaccine causes. I didn't feel much more tired than usual during the day, but apparently it caught up with me.

Right now I feel fine -- no aches, no chills, even my arm (injection site) barely hurts. I have more Advil if I need it, but I don't know if it will even be necessary.
 

mac

Administrator
Glad to hear you're doing OK, bb. :) I would agree your unexpected, unusual amount of sleep showed how exhausted the jab had made you, even though you weren't totally aware of it having happened.
 
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mac

Administrator
I guess you'll be back at work now?

Moderna hadn't had scrutiny of its details and then approval any earlier. Its approval and use could be significant because it appears India may start restricting exports from its vaccine manufacturers to ensure India's citizens get adequate vaccination doses - they're having a bad time right now.

As I've often heard it said recently, no individual nation is safe until all are safe..... New emerging variants are an ongoing worry and there's still consternation about blood clots associated with AstraZeneca to be sorted out.
 

bluebird

Major Contributor
I plan to keep working from home, if at all possible -- I much prefer it (for many reasons, including much less gas money and wear & tear on the car, since my job is 1.5 hours away), plus I get much more work done (literally more than 6 times as much). Besides that, we have hired additional people to handle customer service (which I had been stuck doing, but which was not what I was actually hired to do), so there's really no need for me to be in the office more than the one day a week I'm there currently (going in one day a week is sufficient to allow me to get done any work I need to handle in/from the office). I really hope my boss does not push for me to come in to the office more -- if he does, I will show him how much more work I've gotten done at home (I created a spreadsheet in March 2020, at the start of work-from-home, and have kept it updated to track my work). If he still pushes to have me return to the office more than one day a week, I will look for another job, one much closer to home. If I have to go in to an office 5 days a week, it would be much better for me to do so at a more local job.

I wasn't aware of the issues India was having with the vaccine, but I can certainly understand them restricting export of the vaccine unless/until its own citizens are fully vaccinated. It's true that no nation is safe until all are safe, since as long as hotspots remain, new variants are likely to appear.
 

mac

Administrator
I remember how you've preferred working from home and how long your commute journey is - horrendous! I also remember how you dislike the face-to-face work you're stuck with.

Working from home has often been shown to be more productive for those individuals best suited to it. Others prefer a workplace environment and the ideal would be to let individuals choose whichever system works best for them provided the employer is comfortable with the arrangement, of course.

I do hope you can get the working conditions you'd prefer now there are additional staff at your place.
 

bluebird

Major Contributor
Thanks, mac. Pandemic aside, I don't so much mind dealing with customers -- most of them are nice enough. It's just that it's not the work I was hired to do, it's well below my abilities, and it can be quite tedious. My actual work, the kind I've been doing since work-from-home was instituted, is much more in line with my expertise, experience, and educational degree. I was able to do some of that work pre-pandemic as well, as I said, but have been able to do so much more of it from home. The commute, and the costs of gas and wear & tear on the car, are definitely primary concerns. Plus I very much like being able to roll out of bed 10 minutes before I'm supposed to start working, brush my teeth and make a bagel, then sit on my couch, fire up the laptop, and start working while still in my pjs, lol. My boss really shouldn't have a problem with me continuing to work mostly from home, as it's better all round (plus I get paid more than the customer service employees because my actual intended work is higher level, so it makes more sense for my employer) -- so fingers crossed! I agree that different people work differently, and are more productive in certain setups. I do kind of miss seeing my coworkers, but I see them a bit when I go in once a week, and that's enough. I know this isolation has been hard on many people, but honestly I've been isolating myself as much as possible since my husband died anyway, so I think that aspect of all this has been less difficult for me than it has been for so many others.
 

mac

Administrator
The changes brought on by this damned pandemic have had many, many negative outcomes but for some - perhaps a small minority - it's not been wholly negative.

I'm fond of sayings, bb, and there's one that goes "It's an ill wind that blows nobody any good." This pandemic is one example of that saying in action.
 

bluebird

Major Contributor
Agreed; I have read quite a few accounts of people whose lives have improved during the pandemic, at least in some ways. Some people got better jobs, some improved their relationships with their spouse/partner, kids, parents, friends, some took up new hobbies or focused on old ones, etc. Not to mention that it has made very clear that our previous way of life is simply unsustainable, at least in the U.S., and hopefully that will lead us towards being able to make the necessary changes to make life better for our citizens (I hope the same is true in other countries as well, it's just that the U.S. is, in my opinion, one of the most screwed up of the "first world" countries, in many ways -- healthcare, hunger, racism/sexism/homophobia/transphobia, wealth inequality, crooked/evil politicians, idiots who don't "believe" in science, etc.).

Of course, the improvements in some lives does not begin to counteract the horrific losses in others -- dead loved ones, sick loved ones, lost families, lost homes, lost jobs, etc.
 

mac

Administrator
Time will show whether the future will be impacted in many/any positive ways - I do hope so.
 

bluebird

Major Contributor
Thanks, mac. I was aware of everything in the article, but it's good to have it linked here for those who are not.
 

mac

Administrator
As the UK and US vaccination schemes move ahead the US is well in the lead lifting restrictions but the UK is fast catching up albeit much more carefully. Nonetheless the situation is far from under control yet our populaces are likely to think it is! Social distancing and mask wearing are likely to be early care-casualties. The latter is making me wonder what's best for MY future behavior as others drop their guard.

If wearing a mask become less common - and I predict it will - then those who want to take precautions might need to consider which masks they should wear. The masks most readily available help prevent an individual coughing, sneezing and breathing out particles hence protecting others. That's been the principle since the beginning for ordinary people. BUT if fewer people are wearing masks then fewer others are being protected against the spread of the virus along with the inevitable variants/mutations.

Those of us willing to wear a mask will be protecting others but increasingly those no longer wear masks will be subjecting us to their virus particles. The only way we'll have to protect ourselves will be to keep our distance from others even more scrupulously and - where that's not possible - to wear a surgical grade mask that protects the wearer from airborne virus particles. We'll need to source and buy a better grade of mask to protect ourselves if we want maximum protection.
 

bluebird

Major Contributor
Social distancing and mask wearing need to be maintained for quite a while yet, in my opinion. I will not drop my guard, though I've been fully vaccinated; it's just safer and more prudent to maintain all possible precautions. I will gladly buy surgical-grade masks, if I can get them. I am definitely fearful of the covidiots who are likely to stop wearing masks and social distancing -- but I have absolutely no problem telling them (or yelling at them, if need be) to back up away from me.
 

mac

Administrator
Our government and their advisers tell us there's a need to remain cautious but I would be diamonds that some, perhaps many, will feel the pandemic is under control and drop their guard.

Here in the UK and over there in the USA the overall effect of a new spike is likely to be less serious now vaccination is widespread and likely to become even more so over the next weeks and months. Nonetheless there will be asymptomatic spreaders among us and it's against those guys we need to take precautions.

Supplies of surgery grade masks ought to be more reliable so this is the time to buy some for those situations we can't control. Shouting at others may be cathartic but won't stop them spreading the virus when they don't know they have it - and for those who don't know or don't care.
 

bluebird

Major Contributor
No, but shouting will make them back the f*** up away from me, at least, and that's the purpose of it.

Of course, that's only if they don't respond to my initial civilly worded request. The other day at the grocery store, the guy behind me in the checkout line got too close, maybe three feet from me (both he and I were properly wearing masks). I politely but firmly said "Sir, please move back, to six feet away". He didn't do so at first, but he was an older guy so he might not have heard me. I repeated my statement, a bit louder this time but just as civil, he backed up, I said thank you, and we finished our business at the checkout.
 

mac

Administrator
It's nice when individuals react that way. Over here store staff have been attacked when asking customers to use masks properly or to maintain correct social-distancing. Not everyone is co-operative and some are just ass-holes!
 

bluebird

Major Contributor
True, some people are just assholes. I suppose my "superpower", such as it is, is that since my husband died I simply have no more f***s to give, so I will not put up with any shit, and I don't care at all what some asshole covidiot thinks of me (not speaking now of the guy in the store; he was fine). I have never been one to suffer fools gladly, but since my husband died that has become basically absolute.

If someone decided to attack me over it, I would sue them and my financial problems would be (at least partially) solved (assuming there were witnesses and/or a CCTV video of the attack). My only real concern would be getting injured or catching Covid from the idiot, but since I'm now fully vaccinated I wouldn't become very ill. Hell, even if they attacked me and killed me (unlikely, but remotely possible) I would be ok with that, as I really don't want my current life anyway.

All of that said, I'd rather not have to deal with any covidiots -- I'd rather they not exist. Once we are (hopefully) on the other side of this pandemic, I hope the U.S. is able to find a way to diminish the influence of the mask-denying, right-wing supporting, racist/sexist/homophobic/transphobic, anti-intellectual half of our population. The only answer I can see is to increase the influence of education and decrease the influence of fundamentalist religion, but that's easier said than done.
 

bluebird

Major Contributor
The U.S. is doing pretty well with getting people vaccinated (aside from the covidiots who refuse to get the vaccines) -- we royally screwed up much of our pre-vaccine response to the pandemic, largely due to the asshole-in-chief at that time, but thankfully have gotten our shit together for the vaccine phase of dealing with Covid-19. We are still supposed to wear masks indoors (unless fully vaccinated and with small groups of family who are also fully vaccinated), as well as outdoors during any remotely crowded situations. Personally (and I doubt this will surprise anyone here, given my stated views on these matters), I still intend to wear a mask at all times outside of my own home, other than when I am in my sister's large backyard with just her and her husband (and occasionally our mother), while sitting at least 6 feet apart from everyone (which I have done 2 or 3 times over the course of the past year). My family members think I'm being overly cautious at this point, but my feeling is that there is zero reason not to take additional precautions -- there's no downside. I can't say for sure, but I anticipate that I will likely continue this behavior for at least another 6 months to a year.
 

Truth seeker

Active Member
Hello to bluebird, Mac and everyone, I just came to say hello ... it has been a while without coming to the forum ... a lot has happened

Days ago I got the Astra Zeneca vaccine and it knocked me out for a couple of days, apparently in almost all younger people it had that effect, all my friends and acquaintances felt very sick for it.

Today my state entered an "orange traffic light" which means that covid 19 infections grew and there are more restrictions on local businesses, some cannot open and others have to close early and work with few clients inside.

People became confident and began to go out everywhere, concerts, dances, parties, vacations, without masks and these are the consequences, while our president ( in Mexico) is saying that children have to go back to schools with or without a pandemic.

Well, let's see what happens ... I hope you are all well, take care, greetings ...
 

mac

Administrator
After now about 17 months of Covid-19 dominating our news I grew bored of writing about, and reacting to, the latest pandemic revelations.

In years to come some of us will look back at these times (others will have passed over) and maybe recall some of the details and how life in our world changed irreversibly. Who knows how many more will die before things normalize into whatever it eventually becomes?

No country has gotten everything right and in most countries, states, provinces, cities, towns or whatever I'd bet folk will accuse their own authorities of being the most inept - parochialism is a national and global affliction. Yet some countries WILL do horribly badly although others will do do remarkably well OVERALL. But local situations will vary whichever group you're living in and while we're battling to deal with this pandemic our world is heating up disastrously.

We have much to worry about....
 

bluebird

Major Contributor
Hi Truth seeker. Glad to hear you got your vaccine; what were your symptoms from it?

I got Moderna. The first shot just gave me a mightily sore arm for 3 or 4 days; the second shot wasn't bad at first, just the same sore arm -- but then around 2 in the morning I just couldn't sleep, as I had body aches and chills (no fever that I'm aware of, though I don't have a thermometer). I had fallen asleep on my couch around 11pm feeling normal, then woke up there around 2am, got into bed, and couldn't sleep. Because I had sleepy brainfog, I didn't even connect it to the vaccine, but eventually I slept a bit, and when I got up in the morning I realized the vaccine was probably the cause. I took a couple of Advil (ibuprofen), and within an hour felt 95% better. Took Advil again in the afternoon, and then again before I went to bed that night, and that was it. Still had the sore arm for a few days, but I expected that and could deal with it.

I am definitely more of a "hardass" than most people when it comes to Covid. As far as I'm concerned, in most places most restrictions should still be in place, masks should absolutely be required unless one is in one's own home or with people one lives with, social distancing should still be enforced, etc. There should be no concerts, dances, parties, vacations. I also don't think children should be going to school in person, but if they do then I think they should be required to wear masks, stay 6 feet apart, etc.

In any case, I hope you and your loved ones stay safe and well.
 

bluebird

Major Contributor
After now about 17 months of Covid-19 dominating our news I grew bored of writing about, and reacting to, the latest pandemic revelations.

In years to come some of us will look back at these times (others will have passed over) and maybe recall some of the details and how life in our world changed irreversibly. Who knows how many more will die before things normalize into whatever it eventually becomes?

No country has gotten everything right and in most countries, states, provinces, cities, towns or whatever I'd bet folk will accuse their own authorities of being the most inept - parochialism is a national and global affliction. Yet some countries WILL do horribly badly although others will do do remarkably well OVERALL. But local situations will vary whichever group you're living in and while we're battling to deal with this pandemic our world is heating up disastrously.

We have much to worry about....
I know I feel hopeless and depressed for many personal reasons, but even taking all of that into consideration, I genuinely believe this planet may very well be heading to hell in the proverbial handbasket. Racism, sexism, homobophia, transphobia, rape, molestation, child and animal abuse, domestic violence, climate change, Covid-19, the rise of the fascist right-wing in both politics and the citizenry in many countries (absolutely including the U.S.), poverty, human trafficking, destruction/pollution of the oceans, animal extinctions, and so much more, not to mention the high likelihood of more viruses -- both novel and known -- arising in increasing number and severity, due in large part to the consequences of human behavior/actions (climate change, melting of the polar ice caps, wet markets, etc.). It's f***ing monstrously depressing.
 

Truth seeker

Active Member
Hi Truth seeker. Glad to hear you got your vaccine; what were your symptoms from it?

I got Moderna. The first shot just gave me a mightily sore arm for 3 or 4 days; the second shot wasn't bad at first, just the same sore arm -- but then around 2 in the morning I just couldn't sleep, as I had body aches and chills (no fever that I'm aware of, though I don't have a thermometer). I had fallen asleep on my couch around 11pm feeling normal, then woke up there around 2am, got into bed, and couldn't sleep. Because I had sleepy brainfog, I didn't even connect it to the vaccine, but eventually I slept a bit, and when I got up in the morning I realized the vaccine was probably the cause. I took a couple of Advil (ibuprofen), and within an hour felt 95% better. Took Advil again in the afternoon, and then again before I went to bed that night, and that was it. Still had the sore arm for a few days, but I expected that and could deal with it.

I am definitely more of a "hardass" than most people when it comes to Covid. As far as I'm concerned, in most places most restrictions should still be in place, masks should absolutely be required unless one is in one's own home or with people one lives with, social distancing should still be enforced, etc. There should be no concerts, dances, parties, vacations. I also don't think children should be going to school in person, but if they do then I think they should be required to wear masks, stay 6 feet apart, etc.

In any case, I hope you and your loved ones stay safe and well.
I got fever, chilss, and couldnt sleep at all the first day, and headaches for two days....

Myself and friends are having lots of problems in life lately, I hope somehow this is some kind of test by the spiritual world and that eventually those who pass it, will have their "reward"..at least I can hope
 

bluebird

Major Contributor
I got fever, chilss, and couldnt sleep at all the first day, and headaches for two days....

Myself and friends are having lots of problems in life lately, I hope somehow this is some kind of test by the spiritual world and that eventually those who pass it, will have their "reward"..at least I can hope

That sounds like a pretty standard immune response, then. Not fun, but certainly better than actually getting full-blown Covid-19.

I hope the problems you and your friends have been having are quickly, completely, and happily rectified.
 

mac

Administrator
Myself and friends are having lots of problems in life lately, I hope somehow this is some kind of test by the spiritual world and that eventually those who pass it, will have their "reward"..at least I can hope
The challenges of this world don't have anything to do with those living in the etheric dimensions. Such ideas come from the kind of teaching perhaps found in certain mainstream religions along with other misguided ideas.

The notion of test and reward is a human one but life incarnate is - we are repeatedly told - something we chose to experience rather than something imposed on us as a test. That's unlikely to be a theme preached from the pulpit on a Sunday morning or during Bible classes, of course!
 
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mac

Administrator
The months ahead will be challenging as we head into winter months where health issues always increase anyway.

Many are desperate to see life returning to normal and may be prepared to take risks whereas others simply reject any notion that Covid-19 is the problem it patently is. For them vaccination is a conspiracy to mislead and even dangerous - another 'inconvenient truth'. The rest of us are pragmatic and accept the constantly changing reality of this unprecedented scenario. Maybe it's this uncertainty that causes such angst for many? The world faces this further, long period of uncertainty as the pandemic moves into the next phase with new, potentially more virulent virus strains emerging, especially in communities where there is a low level of vaccination acceptance.

From what we're hearing about the American healthcare system it's somewhat stretched to say the least. Here in the UK hospitals are coping pretty well but there's a huge backlog of treatments necessarily postponed as the pandemic developed. Hospital medical staff are burned out from working flat out and from unprecedented emotional stress. Our National Health System is perpetually underfunded anyway but is also facing a desperate shortage of medical staff at all levels, made worse by our ill-fated 'Brexit' along with hysterical calls to limit foreign workers coming to the UK - at a time we desperately need them!

On top of all that there is great concern that many sick people are staying away from doctors' surgeries and hospital or unable to get appointments. Non-critical surgery such as joint replacement has been delayed by a year and more with even cancer treatment having to wait because resources are stretched well beyond capacity.

Although I've written mostly about our UK situation I wonder how applicable those observations are to the situation in the USA. (where the majority of our members live)
 

mac

Administrator
I don't do online news much but find it interesting to read Yahoo news concerning the current pandemic situation in the USA. The vast majority of what Yahoo news reports is similar to what I learn from non-social-media sources in the UK.

Does anyone here read online Yahoo news and if so, what's your take on what's reported?
 

bluebird

Major Contributor
I think you're right, mac, that the uncertainty is part of what causes angst for so many -- it certainly does for me. But the appropriate response to that is to do everything one can to protect oneself, which not everyone is doing (those who can, I mean -- I certainly can't fault people who don't even have access to the vaccine). I don't see how life can get back to anything even approaching normal until nearly everyone is vaccinated -- and even then, there's some danger (Delta and other variants, breakthrough infections, etc.), though greatly lessened. In the US, unfortunately the right-wing idiots have done a good job of convincing their idiot followers not to get immunized, and there's some of that in other countries as well -- and it's that kind of stupidity that greatly contributes to the ability of new variants to arise, spread, and thrive.

I think your observations are very much applicable to the USA -- I think we're actually worse off here, in that while both your country and mine have recently had the least qualified individuals "leading" them (to say the least!), both in terms of their Covid response and in general, the US is worse (in my opinion) in terms of stupid people refusing to get the vaccine.

If we can get to the point where Covid-19 is not much more than an unpleasant annoyance like the flu, we'll be damn lucky. Of course, with the multitude of ways in which humans are destroying the planet, Covid-19 is not likely to be the last plague our mistakes unleash upon the world. Global warming / climate change is leading to the melting of the polar ice caps, which in addition to the direct dangers that presents (flooding, changes to the Gulfstream, and the like) is likely to release new pathogens (or at least unknown to us, and therefore germs against which we have little or no immunity) into the human and animal populations.

The experts are now recommending that fully vaxxed people get booster shots about 8 months after their second vaccination (or only vaccination, in the case of the single shots). I will certainly be doing so, but just the fact that that is the recommendation is concerning, and points to how virulent Covid-19 actually is -- normally booster shots (for measles, mumps, etc.) aren't indicated until 4 to 10 years after the initial shot (I may be a bit off, but that's approximately correct).
 

bluebird

Major Contributor
My sister and I just got our Covid boosters today (Moderna, in our case). So far my arm really doesn't hurt much, just slightly (it did hurt quite a bit after the fact, after the first two shots). We had read that moving your arm around after the shot, and also rubbing the area, more quickly shifts the vaccine liquid through the muscle, which lessens the soreness, so we did that. We were advised that if we get any side effects, they will probably start about 12 hours after the shot (so in the early hours of the morning, for us -- around 1 am). With the first shot, my only side effect was a (very!) sore arm. With the second shot, I had the sore arm again, but also that night I got chills, body aches, slight headache, etc. (no fever, though), for which I took some Advil (ibuprofen), and that got rid of 90% of the symptoms. So my plan is to take a couple of Advil tonight before bed, to hopefully head off any side effects.
 

bluebird

Major Contributor
So is everyone boostered up? Has anyone here actually gotten covid (hopefully not)? Is Omicron the dominant strain in your country/state/region?
 

Monika

Active Member
So is everyone boostered up? Has anyone here actually gotten covid (hopefully not)? Is Omicron the dominant strain in your country/state/region?
I personally have not gotten any vaccine yet. Wasn't sick either. Hope everyone stay healthy here and happy new year!
 

bluebird

Major Contributor
I am still waiting to get the appointment with a doctor who would know my sickness and could suggest if/which vaccine i should take.
I'm sorry, I wasn't aware you were ill. It can be difficult to determine if it's ok to take the vaccine when you have a particular illness and/or have to take certain medications for that illness. I hope whatever illness you have is easily treatable and does not impact your life, and that your doctor is able to recommend one of the Covid vaccines for you. In the meantime (well, even after you get vaccines, really), please stay safe and well, masked up and socially distancing, etc. :)
 

Monika

Active Member
I'm sorry, I wasn't aware you were ill. It can be difficult to determine if it's ok to take the vaccine when you have a particular illness and/or have to take certain medications for that illness. I hope whatever illness you have is easily treatable and does not impact your life, and that your doctor is able to recommend one of the Covid vaccines for you. In the meantime (well, even after you get vaccines, really), please stay safe and well, masked up and socially distancing, etc. :)
Thank you bluebird for your kind words :) I keep myself safe and healthy :) I have SLE but im doing very well compared with how bad it could be.
 

bluebird

Major Contributor
You're very welcome. :)

I didn't know what "SLE" was, so I googled it -- it's a form of lupus, is that correct? If so, given that lupus is an autoimmune disease, I can see how it might be difficult to determine if it's safe for you to get Covid vaccines, but I do hope you are able to get the vaccines, and I'm glad that the SLE isn't affecting you badly and that you keep yourself safe and healthy.
 

Monika

Active Member
You're very welcome. :)

I didn't know what "SLE" was, so I googled it -- it's a form of lupus, is that correct? If so, given that lupus is an autoimmune disease, I can see how it might be difficult to determine if it's safe for you to get Covid vaccines, but I do hope you are able to get the vaccines, and I'm glad that the SLE isn't affecting you badly and that you keep yourself safe and healthy.
I appologize for using short name of it which of course makes it difficult to understand what is that. You are right, bluebird, SLE is systemic lupus erythematosus.
 

Ruby

Significant Contributor
I appologize for using short name of it which of course makes it difficult to understand what is that. You are right, bluebird, SLE is systemic
Thank you bluebird for your kind words :) I keep myself safe and healthy :) I have SLE but im doing very well compared with how bad it could be.
Nice to hear from you again, Monika. If anything like a friend of mine, it is healthier to keep away from the sun.
 

Monika

Active Member
Hej Rubby!! Nice to hear from you too! :)
Yes, sun is not very big friend of mine...Thats why i love long dark winters here without any sun at all :D
 

Auras

Occasional Contributor
May I ask why?
My main reason is because I don't go out much. My anxiety keeps me in most days so my social interaction is at a bare minimum. I only go out, if it's absolutely necessary. Then I will follow the rules, face mask on, keeping distance as much as possible.
 

bluebird

Major Contributor
My main reason is because I don't go out much. My anxiety keeps me in most days so my social interaction is at a bare minimum. I only go out, if it's absolutely necessary. Then I will follow the rules, face mask on, keeping distance as much as possible.

I can understand that, as it's much the same with me. In my opinion, though, getting the vaccines is still the way to go -- especially with Omicron, which is so virulent and transmissible that it's even causing "breakthrough" cases, in which fully vaxxed and boosted people are catching it....thankfully, it tends to only cause mild symptoms, especially in vaccinated people. And with Delta and any other variants that arise, they are a bit less transmissible but are much more dangerous, unfortunately.

I leave my house as little as possible, and when I do have to go out (such as for work or groceries) I do not leave my house without a mask (these days, I'm actually double-masking with one N-95 and one regular on top), I stay as far away from other people as possible, etc. Nonetheless, I am double-vaxxed and boosted, and will get another booster if/when it is advised and available.

Certainly you are taking precautions, but why not take as many as possible and get vaccinated as well? Please stay safe.
 

ravensgate

Significant Contributor
My daughter received the 2 doses of the Pfizer vaccine in the Spring of 2021 and was ready to receive the booster. She started feeling under the weather, with scratchy throat, nasal congestion, and a persistent feeling of a lump in her throat. About 10 days before the symptoms surfaced she attended a rather large gathering (against my advice but hey, Mom knows diddly, right?!:rolleyes:) I convinced her to get tested before making the appointment for the booster and sure enough she tested positive.... and freaked out! She was prescribed Tessalon Pearls and methylprednisolone; she is now nearly back to her old self, but it took over 2 weeks to recover!

I had my first vaccine in March (the Moderna vaccine) and received the second one in April; in October I went for the booster. I continue to wear my mask (I now use an N95) whenever I enter a store, I do not shop in person unless necessary (Amazon loves me, I'm sure!), I have my groceries delivered and any new patient who walk into my office, I ask if they've been vaccinated; if not, I wear my mask and keep at least 6 feet between us.
I may be called "chicken" for this behavior but frankly death at this point in my life would be quite inconvenient, lol

I would also like to add that, as much as I dislike admitting it, I am experiencing compassion fatigue. Just this past December I lost a 39-year old patient who believed Covid was nothing but "liberal bs". His Covid battle began with respiratory issues that grew worse within a few days; he was admitted to hospital and placed on 2 types of life support (ventilator and ECMO); he died some 2 months later. He was healthy, no pre-existing conditions, he exercised regularly, a non-smoker; unfortunately he believed the Big Lie. He left a wife and 2 young children.
Please, people, do not mistake a little inconvenience for "liberal tyranny"! Thank you.
 

bluebird

Major Contributor
Sorry to hear your daughter caught Covid, ravensgate, and glad to hear she recovered. I don't think you're being a chicken -- I think taking the sorts of precautions you are is really the best and only way to deal with this. My mom had an injury and has been in a rehab for the past two months (she'll be going home in a few days, yay!), and just last week tested positive for covid, despite being double-vaxxed and boosted (Moderna). Given her health conditions (one lung lobe removed due to cancer a few years ago, COPD, asthma), it could have killed her had she not had the vaccines -- as it is, instead she had what felt like a mild head cold (her lungs remained clear) for a few days, and is already feeling back to normal. Because of the mildness of her symptoms, we're assuming it was Omicron.

I am double-vaxxed and boosted (all Moderna), and will get another booster if/when it is recommended. I do not leave my home without wearing a mask -- these days, I'm always double-masking (N-95 first, and a regular disposable mask on top of that), I always stay as far away from others as I can, and honestly I barely leave the house at all. I am working from home three days a week, and only need to go into the office one day a week. My workplace requires employees to wear masks in the office; usually there are only two of us in the office at any one time, and we are easily able to stay at least 6 feet apart. Because I won't remove my mask outside of my home, that means I don't eat anything all day on the day I work in the office, until I get home around 6pm. I don't consider these things to be extreme, I consider them to be essential.

I understand the compassion fatigue; it is difficult to have compassion for people who for some idiotic reason politicize a pandemic, a medical issue. The conservatives don't understand that we liberals simply don't view the pandemic as a political issue, because in reality, it is not one. Covid does not care one whit whether an individual is a liberal or a conservative -- only that s/he is a viable host. I wish everyone understood that.
 

ravensgate

Significant Contributor
Sorry to hear your daughter caught Covid, ravensgate, and glad to hear she recovered. I don't think you're being a chicken -- I think taking the sorts of precautions you are is really the best and only way to deal with this. My mom had an injury and has been in a rehab for the past two months (she'll be going home in a few days, yay!), and just last week tested positive for covid, despite being double-vaxxed and boosted (Moderna). Given her health conditions (one lung lobe removed due to cancer a few years ago, COPD, asthma), it could have killed her had she not had the vaccines -- as it is, instead she had what felt like a mild head cold (her lungs remained clear) for a few days, and is already feeling back to normal. Because of the mildness of her symptoms, we're assuming it was Omicron.

I am double-vaxxed and boosted (all Moderna), and will get another booster if/when it is recommended. I do not leave my home without wearing a mask -- these days, I'm always double-masking (N-95 first, and a regular disposable mask on top of that), I always stay as far away from others as I can, and honestly I barely leave the house at all. I am working from home three days a week, and only need to go into the office one day a week. My workplace requires employees to wear masks in the office; usually there are only two of us in the office at any one time, and we are easily able to stay at least 6 feet apart. Because I won't remove my mask outside of my home, that means I don't eat anything all day on the day I work in the office, until I get home around 6pm. I don't consider these things to be extreme, I consider them to be essential.

I understand the compassion fatigue; it is difficult to have compassion for people who for some idiotic reason politicize a pandemic, a medical issue. The conservatives don't understand that we liberals simply don't view the pandemic as a political issue, because in reality, it is not one. Covid does not care one whit whether an individual is a liberal or a conservative -- only that s/he is a viable host. I wish everyone understood that.
So glad to read your mother experienced mild symptoms only, considering her pre-existing conditions! Last week one of my clients mentioned she lost 4 people in her family. Four people from May until October 2021; all 4 had refused the vaccine.... but here's the kicker: my client is "considering" getting the vaccine. Oh, for pete's sake! o_O:rolleyes:
 

bluebird

Major Contributor
So glad to read your mother experienced mild symptoms only, considering her pre-existing conditions! Last week one of my clients mentioned she lost 4 people in her family. Four people from May until October 2021; all 4 had refused the vaccine.... but here's the kicker: my client is "considering" getting the vaccine. Oh, for pete's sake! o_O:rolleyes:
Thank you. :) She and we were very lucky.

I'm sorry about your clients' family members; it is so difficult to convince people who refuse to accept scientific fact, but I'm surprised that the death of four of her family members didn't convince her.
 

mac

Administrator
Here in the US things are every bit as bad as they appeared to be when I was following events from afar.....

I'm sick of debating the situation, sick of hearing arguments for and against vaccination, sick of hearing the same-old same old stuff.... Sick of hearing how bad the situation truly is. But it doesn't go away by ignoring it or doing an ostrich impression and I'm resigned to living with a pandemic for some time yet.

It's said Covid-19 will become endemic in time but nobody knows for sure and modelling doesn't guarantee outcomes. I fear that a regularly emerging new variant may become an annual event bringing with it all the uncertainty we've faced since Omicron came along so suddenly.

If that happens we'll all be in a new world where the freedoms of old have become distant, fond memories, each of us remembering the things that meant the most to us individually.
 

Auras

Occasional Contributor
I can understand that, as it's much the same with me. In my opinion, though, getting the vaccines is still the way to go -- especially with Omicron, which is so virulent and transmissible that it's even causing "breakthrough" cases, in which fully vaxxed and boosted people are catching it....thankfully, it tends to only cause mild symptoms, especially in vaccinated people. And with Delta and any other variants that arise, they are a bit less transmissible but are much more dangerous, unfortunately.

I leave my house as little as possible, and when I do have to go out (such as for work or groceries) I do not leave my house without a mask (these days, I'm actually double-masking with one N-95 and one regular on top), I stay as far away from other people as possible, etc. Nonetheless, I am double-vaxxed and boosted, and will get another booster if/when it is advised and available.

Certainly you are taking precautions, but why not take as many as possible and get vaccinated as well? Please stay safe.
I'd like to say that I am not against vaccinations. However, I am somewhat wary because there have been more cases while millions have been vaccinated vs fewer when people weren't vaccinated. That could just be due to the virus being well spread now, but it still doesn't sit well with me.

I fear a lot of things in my life and being vaccinated is one of them. I was reading about the vaccines on the NHS and there is a chance of blood-clot. Anything that carries a risk, terrifies me. Other fears are much the same, like getting on a plane and it crashing. I can't swallow food properly incase I choke. I have to make sure Its chewed down properly and swallow bit by bit. I have to be wary around pets, scared of being bit.

I think my anxiety makes me think of the worse case scenarios which makes me scared.

I would like it if someone can make me see it differently then I will go and get vaccinated. For the mean time though, my stubbornness is what makes me not.
 

bluebird

Major Contributor
There are more cases now because of people not getting vaccinated, which allows variants to arise and flourish -- and also just because Covid-19 is highly contagious and virulent, which is why we are now in the midst of a pandemic.

Yes, there is a small chance of a blood clot if you get the vaccinations, but there is a much greater chance of catching Covid and becoming seriously ill or dying -- the risk from Covid is much greater than the risk from a blood clot. Also, the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines have very low risks/incidence of blood clots, so go for one of those.

I completely understand anxiety, as I suffer from it myself -- I get the fear that it creates. However, you should be much more afraid of Covid itself than of any of the very slight and unlikely risk factors from the immunizations. So many have become seriously ill and millions have died -- and many of those who recover end up with "long Covid", meaning that their lungs and circulatory systems have been irreparably damaged, and they will now have serious lifelong health issues as a result. Getting fully vaxxed is much better for your health.
 

mac

Administrator
I'm seeing people misreading and misinterpreting the data and reaching conclusions they might not reach were they to better understand what those data are telling us.

I feel I'm pretty savvy but the overall picture is highly complex and for every conclusion one might draw I could find an argument to challenge it. We're damned if we do produce all the data and damned if we don't!

So many individuals, though, read/hear the data and statistics and misunderstand them that I can't see an obvious solution. Add to that picture the huge amount of misleading or plain false information 'out there' on the various media and what's happening now is an almost inevitable outcome.

The age we're in may be looked back at from what's presently the future with folk saying "My God, how the hell did folk ever manage to follow the situation in 2022?"
 

bluebird

Major Contributor
I hope everyone here is staying well. I got my second a booster last month, so now I'm double-vaxxed and double-boosted. I still do not leave my house without wearing an N-95 mask, and I do not take it off at all outside of my house; I expect to keep doing that for at least another year, and possibly indefinitely. I also do my best to stay at least 6 feet away from everyone else, though that's more difficult these days because so many people mistakenly believe that things are back to normal and that social distancing is no longer necessary.

My sister and her husband caught covid about 2 weeks ago, despite both being double-vaxxed (my sister is also double-boosted, my BIL only single-boosted because he is not yet 50 years old, which is the requirement at the moment in order to get the second booster). Thankfully they both had mild cases and are largely recovered -- but I'm certain they caught it because they do not always wear their masks in public anymore, believing that their vaccine status mostly protects them (and certainly catching covid would probably have been much more dangerous for them had they not gotten their vaccines and boosters). In my opinion that is taking unnecessary risks, but of course they are adults and must assess for themselves the level of risk they are willing to take.
 

Ruby

Significant Contributor
Hi Bluebird, I hated the masks and am very relieved we don't have to wear them in UK now. The only time I need one is to visit my mother in her care home. We don't need to take a test and show the result on entry to the care home which we had to do until recently. The covid is on the rise and, for example, in our choir, there are a few cases every week. I try to push my chair back a bit to gain a bit more space as the chairs are all placed quite close together, but the required spacing apparently, but there were only twelve of us yesterday so I was asked to come closer and we were all sitting close together so we could hear our part, soprano, alto or base. I am wary of it, but this is what we had the vaccine for, and there are few in hospital on ventilators and most if not all of them will be unvaccinated. We were discussing it over coffee afterwards and some had a mild case but lingering tiredness which is a big drawback and others had a short, sharp illness which was soon over. Everyone had a different range of symptoms. Some people trace their infection to a very brief exposure and others had family members with the virus at home and they didn't even catch it.
 

bluebird

Major Contributor
Hi Ruby. I don't actually like wearing a mask, either, but I think it's an essential part of avoiding catching Covid -- it's not foolproof, of course, but it does provide additional protection on top of the vaccines. I've paid no attention to when mask mandates end, since for myself I have decided to keep wearing a mask.

Covid is on the rise because (at least in part) people have stopped wearing masks. If I were a member of your choir group, I would absolutely not participate unless everyone were at least six feet apart, and while I understand that masks aren't practical when singing, I would insist everyone wear them during set-up, discussions, etc. (non-singing activities), or I would no longer attend/participate.

You're right that trying to get back to something resembling normal is why the vaccines were developed, but I find that too many people feel that it's all over now, when it is not. Of course everyone makes her/his own risk assessment and choices, but personally I see no reason to stop doing an additional thing which protects me (i.e., wearing a mask).

It is true, thankfully, that most people who are vaxxed and boosted will only get mild cases, if they get Covid at all. Still, why not continue trying to avoid it altogether, if possible? Especially given the often-permanent ill effects of long Covid.
 
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