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climate change

Discussion in 'Carol and Mikey Q&A 'follow-on-discussions'' started by innerperson, Sep 28, 2019.

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  1. innerperson

    innerperson New Member

    Mac, it is kind of strange that you keep your reply to me in this thread while moving my post to another.

    Adults are constantly talking about the end of the world in 10 years due to climate change. There seems to be a cycle around climate change doom. Didn't Al Gore say we would all be dead by now?

    They are even pushing this young girl, Greta, as some spokeperson. She is being scared out of her mind for nothing. The fear mongering and the hate to those that don't agree with climate change is absolutely cult like. Kids hear we are all dead within 10 years. Of course many will be scared!

    The last thing I want to do is to upset anyone. I know this is a hot topic for some which is why I try to avoid it. My apologies if I did upset anyone. I really dislike the fear mongering that I see happening.
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2019
  2. mac

    mac Staff Member

    Yes it must seem odd but it's because I'm trying to keep the main thread for Mikey's replies and moving related conversations to their own, dedicated thread rather than having lots of non-Mikey material in this thread. But I then realised that for continuity it was better - on this occasion - to leave our conversation in this C&M thread.

    No Al Gore didn't say that and I'm not aware of anyone other than extremists saying any such thing. I suppose in the social media someone, somewhere might have said that but if social media is used as a primary source of information then its users have only themselves to blame for any misinformation they read/hear.

    Thunberg had already established her own credentials as a campaigner but naturally those who support her will use her to voice their own concerns. Nothing new there.....

    Scared out of her mind? really? I see a young adult angry about world leaders' failures. Not someone who is "being scared" as you suggest.

    cult like? really? :rolleyes:

    I'd be interested in learning who has told them we'll all be dead within 10 years as you suggest.

    Kids get scared by many, many things as they grow up. But they deserve to hear and see the evidence behind claims for the potential effects on the climate because they're the kids will have to deal with them when they grow up.

    There's only thee and me holding this conversation. Who are you afraid of upsetting?

    Don't you feel that facts are more important than misinformation?

    I agree if fear mongering is based on misinformation - 'fake news' to use one well-known individual's favorite words. But isn't it justified when deep concerns are based on evidence? Sometimes it's the only way to break through apathy. :(
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2019
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  3. innerperson

    innerperson New Member

    Evidence? Climate change models that rely on assumptions is evidence now? Changing weather patterns is now evidence? Obviously weather changes. We all know that. So what people are trying to predict is changes that are not natural. How is that even possible?

    Yeah, a young girl trying not to explode from emotions while giving a speech is not a big deal. That wasn't passion for skating or drawing, but fear of dying. She was an activist because her parents made her into one. Now the climate change cultists made her into a symbol. She should be enjoying her childhood and not worrying about such things.

    Mikey said many of those opinions are off yet you can't seem to accept it. :oops: Though I am assuming you believe Mikey to be an advance spiritual being who knows much more than us. We all should be thankful to hear that things aren't as bad as the "evidence" says. :confused:

    I don't think any of the true climate change believers would be able to accept this. They built up their own reality and any threat to that reality will end up in cognitive dissonance. They have seen the evidence. I have to laugh at some of the headlines I see. A heat wave hits and the headlines are like "weather changes doesn't mean climate change isn't happening". Then a cold spell hits and it is "see, climate changes is real".

    Climate change is more about power and money. Politicians use it to divide the country and get people angry enough to donate money and get them out to vote for them.

    Go back through Al Gore's predictions and see what has happened. We should all be underwater by now. o_O These predictions remind me of the people who predict when our economies will go into recession. One guy has been predicting a recession for 10 or so years. Once we hit one, which is inevitable, then he will claim he was right. Same thing with guys like Gore. Our seas rise and he was right even though it took 20 or so years for it to happen. Forget that seas will rise and fall naturally.

    Religions think fear mongering will save us as well.

    With all of that said, I don't have any issues with us being better about our environment. Things like nuclear energy would make a lot of our carbon problems less so. I've have witnessed more people becoming better educated on nuclear and have even seen a few politicians bringing it up. I do think that is our future. Much more so than wind and solar.

    Once I start seeing some of these climate change people start practicing what they preach than I will start taking them seriously. That Google climate change summit had over 114 private planes. These people who tell you to sacrifice while they use private planes and yachts. Talk about cognitive dissonance or maybe they are just flat out lying.

    Maybe these posts should be moved, Mac? We seem to be taking over this thread. :)
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2019
  4. mac

    mac Staff Member

    There is abundant scientific data indicating that the earth's climate is warming - evidence unless you're suggesting it's fake data. Not modeling and/or assumptions.
    Weather patterns are influenced by many factors including warming and there is data based on observed changes - evidence of increasing temperatures. Attempted impact predictions are made in a similar way to how weather forecasting happens - observation, measurements, experience, modelling. No disagreement that either is unlikely to be 100% correct but both are better than nothing.

    But there is not data to prove all warming is down to humankind - some won't be but some very likely will. If humankind minimises its impact on the climate we'll have done all we can to mitigate the eventual outcome.


    How do you know that?

    Whatever others are doing she began the climate protest on her own. She will decide for herelf what's important to her.

    At the foot of posting #701 Carol says "One opinion." I think she means Mikey's opinion. Both Mikey and Carol know that I will disagree with anyone's opinion when I have a different one. I accept only what appeals to my reason. ;)

    Mikey definitely does know more than us but he's not omniscient. Like myself you are naturally free to hold whatever opinion you choose. I have no interest in trying to influence yours.

    Those concerned about climate change will be influenced by whatever influences them - isn't that the way with most thinkers? Isn't that what's happening with you?

    That's politics and political debate isn't permitted on ALF.

    That's both politics and religion and neither debate is permitted on ALF.

    I think energy diversity is probably the best way forward.

    Getting close to politics again - you know the deal.:D

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  5. innerperson

    innerperson New Member


    That doesn't sound like a girl that isn't afraid.

    No, Al Gore (in this context) and the Google climate summit isn't politics. Trying to re-characterize my points as political is just an attempt to shut down the conversation. I'd rather not waste my time if that is how the conversation will go.
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2019
  6. mac

    mac Staff Member

    It's Roberta who says no political discussions here on ALF.

    Thunberg sounds to me like a girl who's angry and upset at the present situation, angry and afraid for her future and angry and frustrated about politicians who only pay lip service. Anger and frustration can lead to tears and Asperger's kids can have difficulties expressing themselves anyway, leading on to frustration. Perhaps also frustration because (quote)"That Google climate change summit had over 114 private planes. These people who tell you to sacrifice while they use private planes and yachts."

    I responded to all your points but if you want to leave it's fine by me.
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  7. innerperson

    innerperson New Member

    Well, maybe you have a point. Climate change is a politic discussion and something we better not discuss here. ;)
  8. mac

    mac Staff Member

    It's not political if we stay away from politics so let's reflect on Mikey Morgan's various responses.

    He does say: "....negativity and conflict does not work. We should all be aware and conscious of how we treat what the earth offers us..... The world is not going to end, but our actions can change how we live here and how our environment reacts to the changes. Energy is being altered."

    He also says: "............Mother Earth is very much alive . The earth is energy just like everything everywhere! But it is our school. This is the dimension where we experience both positive and negative things where we can exercise our free-will. It is in our choices and intent of the choices we make that gives us spiritual progression and growth according to Mikey. We should not abuse our school."

    What he didn't say was that concerns and predictions are off. What he did say, in response to toughlove's concerns about flying, eating meat, driving a car, giving birth to children etc. was: "......what you list above is extreme opinions that are off."

    I totally accept that extremism is rarely helpful but I do get the impression it's up to us to take steps to protect this world all we can. Unless I'm missing something, he hasn't suggested that observed climate changes are not unconnected to human activity.
  9. innerperson

    innerperson New Member

    "....negativity and conflict does not work"

    Yes, fear mongering isn't going to help which was my point. Same as religions trying to scare people telling them they will be going to hell if they don't comply with their teachings. Climate change doesn't talk about hell, but they sure do talk about extinction and death within so many years if we don't do something now.

    Of course he didn't and neither did I. I suggested we don't know how much change is attributed to us and what is naturally occurring. Everything is guesstimates, yet people say we should just accept it because it's science. The same science that says there is no afterlife.

    People are afraid of our way of life changing if we damage the Earth. Those same people are quick to change our life, dramatically, to avoid this. There should be a balance in these things. That is why I brought up nuclear which would take care of a lot of our problems. It is powerful enough (much safer now) to take care of our needs and it takes existing nuclear waste as fuel. This is the likely way forward and with less impact to how we live. Compared to the extremes, like eating less meat, no more flying, people afraid of having kids because of climate change...

    The western countries have already been actively trying to be better. Most of the issues is coming from a few countries that are more concerned with economic expansion. I have been to India and poverty is incredibly high there. So much so that people are more concerned with eating than climate change. The amount of garbage and plastics in their water is astounding.
  10. mac

    mac Staff Member

    Subjects for other threads, perhaps.
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