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be it ever so humble......

Discussion in 'General Afterlife Discussions' started by mac, Feb 13, 2020.

  1. mac

    mac Staff Member

    I agree with your last sentence totally but you'd actually said terminal - not critical unless that means the same clinically. I hope you're not suffering from terminal sickness?

    I do consider myself very lucky to have reached my 'grand old age' pretty damned healthy. As I said earlier, I wish folk's health generally was much better but that doesn't seem to be the way for us humans. Maybe part of the 'learning-through-experience' thing?

    I didn't realise your comment about real estate was tongue-in-cheek. It's helpful to use emoticons when you're making a joke. You now comment: "I meant it as a joke, but when you think about it, why couldn't it be true?" Well when you think about it as a serious subject, what we create for ourselves stays in existence as long as our thoughts/desires remain similar. One might also ask whether such dwellings are indeed real estate at all - how real is something that's not permanent? But seriously......

    I can't speak authoritatively but what I understand of the principles leads me to expect that permanent structures are created by discarnates of great spiritual elevation and maybe created by more than one. Those creations - mountains, seas, lakes etc. - are then held in existence for the benefit of many by these special individuals.

    Personal homes - whatever their nature and style - would essentially be transient, fading away when no longer needed.
  2. Lola Hoovler

    Lola Hoovler Active Member

    Yes, they would fade away when no longer needed, but if one of them really suited someone else, there is no need for it to fade away if someone else wanted to take it over and sustain it in the same way as the original occupant did before losing interest in it I hate to sound like I think there are "real estate" agencies there, as that's ridiculous. Certainly, spirits of great spiritual elevation I feel are responsible for most of what we see there as you mentioned. I just thought that if someone created and lived in a home and then moved on to a place (there is no actual "place" but I don't know a better word) where the environment did not include earth-like homes, another discarnate may want to take it over and live in it rather than just let it "fade away."

    As far as being "real" is concerned, that's a totally tricky subject. Anything we experience in the afterlife is as real as what we experience here, but quantum physics says (mainly Max Planck) that if we think of matter as constituting something that is real, then nothing is real anywhere since there is no such thing as actual matter - there is only energy. Interestingly, William Buhlman, a well known American out of body traveler and lecturer, found places in his "travels" that appeared incomplete, and his guide told him that they were fading away due to lack of interest. This supports what you said and I said about things fading away when no one is any longer paying them any attention.

    Yes, I do have a critical condition that often is terminal, but thanks to my years of studying metaphysical subjects, this hasn't the same impact on me as it would if I remained ignorant of these things.

    Learning through experience is one way to explain unwanted conditions and illnesses, but I tend to think that because people's bodies are not meant to be permanent, it is almost impossible to prove that they are meant to be a learning experience. That doesn't mean it can't be, though. I think it would depend on the individual.
  3. mac

    mac Staff Member

    Thank you for your well-presented arguments on this subject, Lola.

    I don't know if one individual could 'pass on' a dwelling or other object that her/his mind had created for personal use. I fancy not but I'm not certain. One possibility might be someone having a near-identical dwelling or object simply by their desire/mind creating a facsimile of it. My talk of 'real estate' was very much tongue-in-cheek. :D;)

    see above

    This subject of something being real or not is one I've argued many times here on ALF. My stance is simple. Every dimension of existence away from the source of everything is as real - or as unreal/illusory - as every and any other dimension of existence. I didn't use and don't need quantum science for my argument and nobody has yet been able to show I'm wrong.

    Interesting - fading away due to lack of interest. Perhaps, then, your suggestion about taking over a place might be possible if these objects fade slowly rather than disappear in an instant. Chance to 'tune in' to the object and maintain it for oneself. That's certainly an interesting notion and not one I'd previously heard.

    I'm sorry to hear that but would be interested in hearing more if you'd care to share, via p.m. if you don't want to go public.

    Agreed on all points. I think it's indisputably the case that certain individuals will have undertaken lives with ill health - mental and/or physical - for their personal experience and anticipated spiritual growth by so doing. Others though will have sickness for mundane reasons including neglect of their personal health.

    We don't consciously know what any individual's personal life plan is - including our own.
    baob likes this.
  4. Lola Hoovler

    Lola Hoovler Active Member

    Your idea of every dimension being as real or unreal as any other is perfectly true. I just thought that a brilliant person like Max Planck agreeing with this concept was impressive, at least to me. We just don't understand how powerful our minds are, especially living here in such a low vibration. Energy in the afterlife dimensions is much easier to manipulate. I think one needs to be taught how to do this, though. No one dies and just suddenly creates a Disneyland reality, for instance. Dr. Buhlman was surprised to find out that our minds are what "hold things together," in these dimensions as he started his OBE experiences back in 1978 when such things were felt to be "crazy". It kind of reminds me of Robin Williams' movie "What Dreams May Come." It is my understanding that something created disappears a lot faster when there is an intention for it to disappear. Otherwise, it will slowly dissipate if no one thinks about it any more and just chooses to ignore it.

    I was diagnosed with degenerative joint disease, and they tell me it was most likely brought on by constant hiking, which I did. This is not a healthy hobby for females, as their bone cartilage is much more fragile than it is in males. That in itself is not terminal in that sense of the word, but as time goes on, it attacks vital organs creating a wheelchair bound situation, which soon leads to stress on the heart. Obviously, I do not hike any more. No one can tell by looking at me that there is anything wrong, so that's a plus.

    Incidentally, the consensual realities that are often talked about are created and maintained by like minded people, but if they all decide that they want something different, their consensual reality will also fade away. This is interesting because the things most people revere (flowers, gardens, beautiful landscapes etc) seem to be seen most often and I believe it is because we think so highly of these things.
  5. mac

    mac Staff Member

    It's not how certain others here view it, Lola.....;) My suggestion has been soundly rebuffed in the past - often in fact.

    Maybe I'm not easily impressed, Lola? ;):D Or perhaps Planck should be more impressed a dumbo like mac can figure this stuff out from the simple message of survival et al? ;)


    We can't actually manipulate energy in this dimension in similar ways to the ways we can 'over there'. I'm not confident we can actually manipulate energy at all as incarnates but that's a separate debating topic. Like most things in whatever life we're experiencing, I'd agree we have to learn about them either by trial-and-error, by experimentation or by someone showing us the easiest way. Maybe how we approach this stuff when we're over t'other side depends on our individual nature and our personal spiritual progress.

    I'd go further to say few, if any, die and suddenly create(s) any edifice or large-scale project. If someone were to it would be because their level of personal spiritual progress enabled it and because there was a need.

    Ahhhhh...... What Dreams.... I haven't had my winter viewing of it this season. Maybe that time is past? But I do get your points and agree.

    huh! Brought on by repeated hiking or exacerbated by it? I get the effect and the potential outcomes though. I'm sorry you're in that situation. Think on though, if you would, that osteoporosis can also lead to similar outcomes and controlled weight bearing exercise is beneficial to bone strength if not to cartilage. And osteoporosis is a particular risk for post-menopausal women as hormone levels decline.

    Is it considered safe for you to walk as opposed to rough-country hike?

    That's logical because there would no longer be a need or the desire, the key elements in the initial creation of some local environment.

    Do we love these things on earth and carry over that love when we pass or did we bring that love of those things with us when we incarnated? It's a chicken-and-egg conundrum. ;):)
  6. Lola Hoovler

    Lola Hoovler Active Member

    Absolutely. I think it works both ways. Our love for such things probably started there and extended to here, but in any event, most people love plants, flowers, gardens, mountains etc. I have often heard that our earth environment is very similar to the one there, but of much poorer quality. Common sense tells me you are right about our ability to create there must depend on our spiritual progression, intent to learn etc. No one is forced to go on to something more advanced unless they have the desire to do so

    The hiking caused my bone cartilage to weaken and become depleted, but yes, the condition is always exacerbated by hiking. It is safe for me to walk short distances, but it then becomes painful. I don't doubt for a minute that I probably have osteoporosis as well, but when the other diagnosis reared its ugly head, I kind of ignored the possibility of osteoporosis.

    In any event, there is no doubt in my mind that spiritually advanced people have a much easier time accepting the conditions over there, especially if they seek knowledge and have love and tolerance of others. It may sound woo-woo, but it makes sense. I'm not saying I'm one of those people, but at least I'm trying.
  7. Lola Hoovler

    Lola Hoovler Active Member

    Oops sorry for the duplicate posts - I don't know how that happened
  8. mac

    mac Staff Member

    That's a bummer concerning the hiking. There's no certainty you're at risk of osteoporosis but it might be worth getting checked out some time. Better the devil you know than the one you don't. It's a shame that even ordinary walking becomes painful.

    I often reflect on how things will be when we're 'over there' but I know there's little point in going over things. I'll find out - I'll become re-acquainted - with the actuality soon enough. At one time my passing seemed a long way off but now it feels one helluva lot closer! :D:)

    Now it's interesting looking on at the way I'm dealing with the last few years. I just have to hope I won't lose what's left of my ability to observe and analyse. ;) But if I do I hope I'm oblivious to it! :p:D
  9. Lola Hoovler

    Lola Hoovler Active Member

    I'm amazed at what I did in the past. The high top peaks etc. meant nothing to me, but everything in life comes to an end at some point. As far as your ability to observe and analyze, I don't think you will have a problem with that any time soon. Those who keep their brains active like you do have a much less chance of getting dementia or Alzheimer's. Of course, there are no guarantees and I can only go by statistics.

    Here is an interesting coincidence. I decided to re-read some old books, including the one by Doris Stokes, but the first one I picked up was by Mary Browne who studied at the Arthur Findlay School in England (where they teach mediumship to talented people). She claims to have visited the other side quite often and one of the things she claims is that people actually can "take over" others' possessions if it's mutually agreeable. I thought it was odd as I had just been discussing that only hours before. It pays to re-read old books, as I must have read that before back in the 1990's when I bought that book but I don't remember that part. She also said that spirits, guides etc. pay extra attention to people who have a sincere interest in the metaphysical and seek to learn, so that's good news.
  10. mac

    mac Staff Member

    Interesting - quite the coincidence after we'd been in conversation - or not a coincidence at all.;) I know the AFC. It's part of the SNU's real estate. I
    Just for curiosity I've bought an annual subscription to be an SNU ordinary member just to find out what being a member actually means. Probably not much I suspect but as a +35 year Spiritualist I thought I ought to know what goes on in the SNU.
    We'll see whether she's right about our being looked out for when we've passed over;).

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