assorted points Jan 2020

Status
Not open for further replies.

mac

Administrator
Hi Carol & Mikey,
Happy New Year! I have a question about illusion.

When I see a butterfly and flowers on earth, they are true for me because not just me other human beings see the same things. When I pass to afterlife and I see a butterfly and flowers, do other beings see the same things or it depends on their perspective? If it depends on, then afterlife is not objective, then how do we know if that butterfly and flowers are actually exist or just my imagination?

As always Mikey will answer in due course but from what I understand the objects you've mentioned are communal 'over there' also, much as they are here.

Similarly there are communal landscapes, buildings etc. and we may also create (by the power of thought) for ourselves locally the conditions we like to enjoy - when we've learned (or remembered) how. Even here we create for ourselves local conditions we enjoy such as in our homes and gardens. I suppose if we had made sufficient spiritual progression we might be able to create larger objects and landscapes etc. in the etheric dimensions ourselves but I doubt we'd be able to hold them in perpetual existence by ourselves.

None of that makes the so-called afterlife something that's not objective. It does exist for all even if different individuals experience different facets - little different from our own dimension of existence. ;):)
 

baob

Active Member
As always Mikey will answer in due course but from what I understand the objects you've mentioned are communal 'over there' also, much as they are here.

Similarly there are communal landscapes, buildings etc. and we may also create (by the power of thought) for ourselves locally the conditions we like to enjoy - when we've learned (or remembered) how. Even here we create for ourselves local conditions we enjoy such as in our homes and gardens. I suppose if we had made sufficient spiritual progression we might be able to create larger objects and landscapes etc. in the etheric dimensions ourselves but I doubt we'd be able to hold them in perpetual existence by ourselves.

None of that makes the so-called afterlife something that's not objective. It does exist for all even if different individuals experience different facets - little different from our own dimension of existence. ;):)

Happy New Year and thanks for the explanation, mac! I understand what you said. For buildings and landscapes, you can create by using your thought. How about in afterlife you see a butterfly landed on a tree, because the butterfly is a spirit. So does the butterfly truly exist or just your imagination?
 

mac

Administrator
Happy New Year and thanks for the explanation, mac! I understand what you said. For buildings and landscapes, you can create by using your thought. How about in afterlife you see a butterfly landed on a tree, because the butterfly is a spirit. So does the butterfly truly exist or just your imagination?

It's no different than for the situation here in the physical unless as discarnates we have the ability to create - and then animate - an object to give the impression of life. I don't know if that's a possibility but my view is that it's not.

When we see a butterfly here it's being animated - it's a living thing. The only way I know of animating something that's living is by a spirit doing it. If we see a butterfly 'over there' the same principle would apply in my view; a spirit would be animating that butterfly. I don't know if an individual spirit can use its own energy to animate another living thing or whether a a discrete spirit must be doing it - something to ask Mikey about???

I suppose there might be one significant difference from what happens here. Here, of course, our dreams feel real at the time but they are transient and have no material component - they ain't real and they don't exist outside of our dreams. If, however, we can still dream in the world that follows this one maybe our dreams there can manifest objects which we perceive in the way you describe.

Perhaps something else to ask Mikey about???
 

Kurt

Major Contributor
Well done, Kurt, for hunting down that short conversation from two and a half years ago - that must have taken some doing - kudos! I then had to remind myself of the more recent context of your posting and I can see that I felt much the same in April 2017 as I do now - I can't get my head around the notion of everything happening at the same instant with no past or future, just the present.

Two and a half years on you might want to ask Roberta if she's able to add to what she said back in April 2017. What do you feel about what you've heard from the various sources?

I don't know how well others understand the notion but I'm no more able to follow their thoughts than I used to be. Either it's too hard to explain or folk can't illustrate their thoughts well enough for this dumbcluck to understand.

I'm wishing you a happy new year although I do recall your saying you didn't expect to be alive much longer. I hope you now see things differently. :)

Thank you sir. I apologise for not being able to grab it sooner for you.

Things have definitely changed. When I said that I did not expect to be alive much longer it was because (due to a remarkably unusual and extreme situation I had the misfortune of nearly dying 8 times in 2 years. Now it's been a year since the last time I almost passed so I'm keenly aware of how easy it is too die but the chances of me dying are going down drastically. At that point I would say there was a 80% chance of me dying within 5 years. Now there's more of a 3% chance which is normal id say.

So far as nonlinear reincarnation goes I think it works like this.

The Afterlife is nonlinear and the spirits created our incarnations linearly to promote spiritual growth.

While it would be possible to achieve nonlinear reincarnation it would defeat the purpose and be quite unusual.

I'll ask Roberta :)
 

baob

Active Member
It's no different than for the situation here in the physical unless as discarnates we have the ability to create - and then animate - an object to give the impression of life. I don't know if that's a possibility but my view is that it's not.

When we see a butterfly here it's being animated - it's a living thing. The only way I know of animating something that's living is by a spirit doing it. If we see a butterfly 'over there' the same principle would apply in my view; a spirit would be animating that butterfly. I don't know if an individual spirit can use its own energy to animate another living thing or whether a a discrete spirit must be doing it - something to ask Mikey about???

I suppose there might be one significant difference from what happens here. Here, of course, our dreams feel real at the time but they are transient and have no material component - they ain't real and they don't exist outside of our dreams. If, however, we can still dream in the world that follows this one maybe our dreams there can manifest objects which we perceive in the way you describe.

Perhaps something else to ask Mikey about???
Good point, thanks, mac!
 

mac

Administrator
Thank you sir. I apologise for not being able to grab it sooner for you.

Things have definitely changed. When I said that I did not expect to be alive much longer it was because (due to a remarkably unusual and extreme situation I had the misfortune of nearly dying 8 times in 2 years. Now it's been a year since the last time I almost passed so I'm keenly aware of how easy it is too die but the chances of me dying are going down drastically. At that point I would say there was a 80% chance of me dying within 5 years. Now there's more of a 3% chance which is normal id say.

I'm glad to hear that your fortunes have changed, Kurt. I'm also glad you don't need to spend so much time here on ALF although I did kinda wonder if you were OK when you first started spending increased time away. ;) :)
 

mac

Administrator
isn't there a region in the astral that they can satisfy those Earthly desires?
The 'desires' mentioned in the earlier postings from September last year were to do with wanting to remain around the earth dimension rather than leave it and move into the etheric dimension proper.

posting #674 "Mikey tells me it can be up to a quarter, but he says we need to understand that some can be "rescued" quite quickly while others can take longer. Some can be stuck for a long time depending on their strong desires for this dimension. It varies according to Mikey. It is really individual. Carol and Mikey "in Spirit""

That conversation was about rescuing so-called earthbound individuals. It was not about wanting to satisfy (quote) "Earthly desires".
 

Kurt

Major Contributor
I'm glad to hear that your fortunes have changed, Kurt. I'm also glad you don't need to spend so much time here on ALF although I did kinda wonder if you were OK when you first started spending increased time away. ;) :)

I was gone for a while since it took me a while to fully recover from everything that had happened but things are a lot better now. I did miss hearing from you Monika PB and Roberta (she's not too terribly active anymore) but I'm a better person for it. I've managed to carve out my own small corner of the world and fortunately enough for me it looks like I may be able to do everything I want to do within a time frame I never thought possible. It also gave me a chance to study the literature more and develop hobbies that ended up becoming side income streams surprisingly.

I do miss being able to come here very often. I'll try my hardest to. ALF is turning 10 this year and I've been here for nearly half of the entire time. Wow.
 

mac

Administrator
I was gone for a while since it took me a while to fully recover from everything that had happened but things are a lot better now. I did miss hearing from you Monika PB and Roberta (she's not too terribly active anymore) but I'm a better person for it. I've managed to carve out my own small corner of the world and fortunately enough for me it looks like I may be able to do everything I want to do within a time frame I never thought possible. It also gave me a chance to study the literature more and develop hobbies that ended up becoming side income streams surprisingly.

I do miss being able to come here very often. I'll try my hardest to. ALF is turning 10 this year and I've been here for nearly half of the entire time. Wow.

I'm pleased to hear you're much more on top of things, Kurt. :) There were times when they were running away from you. I expect you do miss being here, the folk you kinda know albeit at a very great distance, but I'm also pleased you don't need to be here.

I've said this before and I'll repeat it - this 'spooks' stuff is more suited to older folk and getting on with life is far more important than considering what follows it. If and when the time is right you'll find yourself drawn in that direction or pushed into it without having made the choice.

As you've mentioned, ALF is heading toward its 10th anniversary. During those years a lot of active members have left us, many more visitors came and went without ever being seen on the boards.

The range of subjects we've discussed, debated and even fallen out about is considerable. I'd guess there are few completely unvisited topics that are likely to be raised in ALF's future although I'd loved to be proven wrong. Roberta's focus now is on her blog work, writing and broadcasting.

My experience of forum-based websites is that most go through a cycle of start, run, peak and then gradually fade away. ALF may be in that last stage. :(
 

Kurt

Major Contributor
I'm pleased to hear you're much more on top of things, Kurt. :) There were times when they were running away from you. I expect you do miss being here, the folk you kinda know albeit at a very great distance, but I'm also pleased you don't need to be here.

I've said this before and I'll repeat it - this 'spooks' stuff is more suited to older folk and getting on with life is far more important than considering what follows it. If and when the time is right you'll find yourself drawn in that direction or pushed into it without having made the choice.

As you've mentioned, ALF is heading toward its 10th anniversary. During those years a lot of active members have left us, many more visitors came and went without ever being seen on the boards.

The range of subjects we've discussed, debated and even fallen out about is considerable. I'd guess there are few completely unvisited topics that are likely to be raised in ALF's future although I'd loved to be proven wrong. Roberta's focus now is on her blog work, writing and broadcasting.

My experience of forum-based websites is that most go through a cycle of start, run, peak and then gradually fade away. ALF may be in that last stage. :(

True. Right now I'm studying life expectancy and perspective lifespans. So far as the forum it's basically the top 10 most notable members by message counts and likes + Ruby and Carol. Who knows... Maybe it will go through a resurgence. Ars Technica and Sherdog (as much as I don't like this one) are over 2 decades old. But due to the nature of ALF it is hard to say how long we'll last. If death rates or tragedies spike we will.
 

Ruby

Significant Contributor
There are always new people becoming bereaved and then having these peculiar things happen to them, then searching online, so I would have thought this site would keep going.
 

mac

Administrator
The
There are always new people becoming bereaved and then having these peculiar things happen to them, then searching online, so I would have thought this site would keep going.
ALF will continue as long as there is sufficient reason but perhaps more as a resource for seekers rather than a discussion forum website.

Neither the recently bereaved nor long-time mourners may want to enter into conversation. For them the threads here, along with information in the 'Resources' section, may be all they need.

What's happened over the years on ALF, though, is exactly similar to what's happened on several other websites where I've been a regular; many of them have withered and/or died. I very much hope ALF doesn't go down that path.
 

mac

Administrator
Hi Carol and Mikey,
Along with Mac's questions, I was thinking about spiritual progress and how we view progress on this earth. Occasionally I run into someone who is most likely homeless, and while I am getting so much better at not judging outright, I often wonder what life situations brought them to live in this manner. I am guilty of thinking that perhaps they made bad decisions that brought them to this place (assuming no one chooses to be homeless) and they may not be highly advanced spiritually. Perhaps it was just bad luck. My question is (and I think I may already know the answer) can someone be spiritually advanced and end up in such a desperate condition, especially in a location like the United States?
Have a Great Day,
Tim

Such questions I've often posed for myself, Tim..... ;)
 

mac

Administrator
When Edgar Cayce did readings, he would sometimes say someone lost more than they gained in a particular life. But I take your point--learning is learning, how can it vanish, instead of just becoming hidden? It would be interesting to hear from Mikey if what we have learned can be drained from us if we abuse it and it goes bad.

In connection with the understanding of our survival et al, I've said to folk in the past that you can't ever 'unknow' what you've once come to know..... Sure you can turn your back on it, you can ignore it or even declare it ain't so, but inside you know what you know and that can't be erased. If I'm wrong then please someone explain why.

Unless I've got things very wrong and misunderstood what other teachers have taught, we don't go 'spiritually backwards'. I can accept we may come do a dead stop and find it hard to move any further forward until we've sorted out what's bugging progress but taking a step backward - then having to take action to regain lost ground - isn't something I've ever heard taught.
 

jobun

Occasional Contributor
In connection with the understanding of our survival et al, I've said to folk in the past that you can't ever 'unknow' what you've once come to know..... Sure you can turn your back on it, you can ignore it or even declare it ain't so, but inside you know what you know and that can't be erased. If I'm wrong then please someone explain why.

Unless I've got things very wrong and misunderstood what other teachers have taught, we don't go 'spiritually backwards'. I can accept we may come do a dead stop and find it hard to move any further forward until we've sorted out what's bugging progress but taking a step backward - then having to take action to regain lost ground - isn't something I've ever heard taught.

I agree with you on these points mac. maybe we forget the lesson sometimes, but I don't feel that we lose something once we learn it. pretty much like you can't unsee what you saw....
 

mac

Administrator
I agree with you on these points mac. maybe we forget the lesson sometimes, but I don't feel that we lose something once we learn it. pretty much like you can't unsee what you saw....

Perhaps what's missing is clear guidance about what 'spiritual progress' actually means?

I view the issues as follows: Each of us is a tiny 'spark' of the divine - a spark of God or of the great spirit or whatever word you use to mean the creator force that is the source of everything that is. Those tiny sparks are us. We are of the source, from the source and identically similar to the source. Our essence, then, is already spiritually perfect and mature just like the source.

The significant difference is that in the various dimensions, from the many lives we have, we experience as individuated spirit. The sum total of what we gain from all we experience/learn is carried along with us - not only as individuals but also shared with our soul group members - eventually back to source. This is somehow essential to source - please don't ask me why! I just accept that it is. :D

The upshot, then, of all the above - as I understand the situation - is that our individual spiritual progress is marked by our accumulation of learning from all the experiences we have. It's not down to our memorising what we learn because memory is just a small part of the experience/learning. As I understand things, what we carry back is 'loaded into' the psyches of each and every one of us tiny sparks of the divine and once there is there forever.

Maybe I'm right(ish) and maybe I'm wrong but until someone comes along with a more persuasive version mine is the one that works for me. ;):)
 

genewardsmith

Active Member
There are always new people becoming bereaved and then having these peculiar things happen to them, then searching online, so I would have thought this site would keep going.

There are also people like me, with a very longstanding interest in the topic.
 

Ruby

Significant Contributor
genewardsmith, as a scientist and scholar, how much of the spiritualist stuff do you like to consider as having any validity: the idea of the progress of souls and so on, as detailed by mac above?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top