Abilities in the afterlife

[bluebird]

It is doubtful that the story of Lucifer actually happened -- the bible was written by human beings, who were trying to make sense of the world and the universe around them. It made sense to them to have a "bad guy", a supposed evil force diametrically opposed to the good force they called god. That doesn't mean that any part of the story is true; or even if there does happen to be some kernel of truth to it, that doesn't mean that the details of the story are true. There is simply no way for us to know if there is any truth to it at all.

For the sake of argument, though, suppose it is. There is still a vast difference between you (or anyone) as a human disagreeing with or criticizing or getting angry with God, and Lucifer -- who was an angel -- rebelling entirely against god (again -- this is not something I believe happened, at least not as depicted in the bible, I'm just saying if it did....personally, I doubt any such being as Lucifer as a "fallen angel" ever existed, though of course I acknowledge that I could be wrong). If there were any sin to either action, I think the criticism/anger of the human would have to be considered as much less of an offense than the wholesale rebellion of an angelic being.

I respect mac immensely, but if he said that you won't be able to confront god, I have to disagree with him there. While I am agnostic regarding the existence of god, if there is such a being then mac and I view it somewhat differently. I don't want to speak for mac, but generally speaking I believe that he views god as a sort of impersonal source of all life in the universe, but not as a sentient, loving being. Whereas I tend to believe that if there is a god, it is a sentient being (hopefully a loving one, although to me the fact that he let my husband die a week after our wedding does not point to that -- but I would be willing to listen to god's explanation about that, if it is willing to provide one).

Anyway, if there is an afterlife and a god, then whether or not god takes any responsibility for its actions, that doesn't mean that you can't confront it, even rage at it. If god is an evil bastard, it's possible that it would take retribution or punish you for it, though I don't think that is the case. I don't know where "...it has been said that free will is part of the incarnate experience", or whether whomoever said that also said that free will is limited to the incarnate state and is removed upon death. If that is the case, then that definitely points to god being a coward, but I don't think that it is the case. I'm sorry, I can't direct you to any source or account that states that we do keep our free will in the afterlife -- I just have never (to the best of my knowledge/recollection) come across anything in my reading that states we would lose our free will in the afterlife.
Besides that, the idea of it just feels inherently wrong to me -- not only wrong in terms of being cruel and unfair, but wrong as far as not being accurate (just my opinion).

 

[mac]

Okay… I’ve thought about this, and the best answer(s) I can give to bluebird’s question about what I’d want after death, if I can’t have the physical existence I want is probably this…

I’d probably first ask if it’s possible for me to be sent to one of the lower realms… whatever most closely matches the Earth realm. I’d probably feel comfortable there.

This bit of the conversation is a great illustration of considering a divisive issue in isolation, without overall context.....

Firstly you can ask whatever you choose but one thing that WON'T happen is that you or anybody else will be SENT anywhere. That's not the deal so you can ask but it won't happen. HOWEVER I'd guess that someone really keen to continue in an earth-like dimension wouldn't have any problem unless that individual had been a bugger in life and had not progressed spiritually sufficiently to remain on even that low elevation. That being the case the individual would 'gravitate' to a dimension more fitting of the limited spiritual progress achieved in this physical world.

If that’s not an option, I’d probably then choose to simply remain here, Earthbound, where I can explore the Earth and this physical universe as I please, without the restrictions of a human body, although, admittedly, the physical body is one of the trappings I was hoping to keep, in some form or another.

I'd guess you could do the first part - kinda. As I understand it you could resist any pull to progress (assuming you experience any such pull) and remain somewhere between here and over-there.

The first issue, though, might be that you'll still be unable to completely do what you presently think you'll want to do. Let's just consider the log-cabin situation - you won't be able to construct one. I don't know what kind of body you'd have but you'd live in some kind but that's likely to be less-functional than if you'd made your transition successfully and completely. You'd live as something in-between a human and a spirit form.

But the benefit of immortality kind of offsets that, as I’m sure at some point, humanity will find a way to transfer consciousness from one body to another… I’d just wait.

Oh boy you seem to have been influenced by sci-fi. But you ARE right that you could just wait and as time has no discernible measurements you might well choose to remain as an inbetweener forever, along with all the others in a similar state. As I said elsewhere, the etheric is an enabling dimension but you won't be in it and the physical is for humans and animal forms so you won't be in that one either.

I’ve made a lot of talk here about material things I want, like a house, or a car, whatever. But in my own thread, I’ve repeatedly stated that the one thing I want above all else in the afterlife, is to be married. Again, it’s been said that’s not possible there.

I'm unsure whether you're being mischievous now but I for one did not say marriage is not possible. It's primarily a commitment between individuals so how would that NOT be possible one might ask? I would expect you would even find folk who can provide the atmosphere of a church wedding or whatever other earth ceremony you hanker after. As I've said the etheric is an enabling dimension. If that's what you and your wife-to-be both want you could have it. In a similar way to Mikey Morgan choosing to snow-board on mountains with fake snow.

But, again… if I can’t have that one thing at the least, then I genuinely have NO desire to exist in that realm, and have NO desire to have anything to do with God, or whatever you want to call that force. I wish to be wholly independent of it and it’s influence or control.

As I understand things, your genuine desire will continue as long as you want it to continue. And again as I understand this bigger picture, nobody's gonna try to sway you if you're hell-bent on what you want.

You don't want to have anything to do with God then go for it. God ain't gonna try to persuade you but neither will God allow you to do anything outside of natural law. What you eventually find you can do won't be Harry Potter magic - you will not be able to operate outside the natural law(s) of whatever in-between dimension you choose for yourself. That is a control and it's one that YOU won't be able to change no matter how much you don't want that to be the case.

If I'm wrong I hope you'll search me out when we're both dead and you can then show me how and why I was wrong - deal?

 

[mac]

I haven’t read it anywhere… but he didn’t seem to take criticism from Lucifer when he disagreed with him… he kinda overreacted.

Oh, really? You surely don't listen to that guff, Bruce - or do you?

mac has said that I won’t be able to confront God, or hold it accountable when I die. To me, that indicates that God is a coward, and won’t own up to its faults. It won’t accept criticism or responsibility.

I find it baffling you've spent so much time on ALF.....

And it has been said that free will is part of the incarnate experience. Removing that upon death ensures God avoids accountability for anything. It can’t be challenged. BUT… if you can direct me to a source or account that states we DO keep our free will in the afterlife, I’m listening.

You're either more muddled than I thought or you're deliberately trying to stir the pot.

 

[mac]

Well, if we kept our free will after death, it’d mean that we can do, say, think or feel pretty much whatever we want… even outwardly criticizing God (or whatever you want to call the great force)… which is something we know isn’t possible to do there.

That's a crock, Bruce. You either misunderstand or you're being mischievous.

 

[BruceAdama]

So if I have negative or angry thoughts, emotions, or energy in the afterlife, it won’t gravitate my spirit more towards one of the lower realms, or diminish it in any way? You’re saying that it’s allowed in the afterlife to openly have anger or argue?

 

[mac]

So if I have negative or angry thoughts, emotions, or energy in the afterlife, it won’t gravitate my spirit more towards one of the lower realms, or diminish it in any way? You’re saying that it’s allowed in the afterlife to openly have anger or argue?

Are you putting words in my mouth, Bruce?

 

[BruceAdama]

No. I’m asking a question.

 

[mac]

I did not say what you have suggested or anything similar.

 

[bluebird]

Well my view, for what it's worth, is that you can argue or have negative emotions in the afterlife. I'm guessing that after some time there you may not actually feel those negative emotions anymore, at least not to the same degree.

Taking my own situation as an example: Suppose I die and go to the afterlife, and suppose I am reunited with my husband there. I will be overwhelmingly joyful at his continued existence and at being reunited with him, and will feel the same strong love for him that I always have, and those will be my primary emotions. Now, I will likely still feel anger towards god (if there is one) for allowing him to die when he did, and I will want god to provide an explanation for its actions (or its inaction) -- I don't know if god will be willing to do that, I just know that I will want it. Suppose god does explain to me why things happened as they did -- at that point I will either accept its explanation as valid, or not. If I accept it as valid, I think my anger would greatly lessen. If I do not accept it as valid, then while I would still be angry, my overriding emotions would still be joy at being with my beloved husband again, and love for him, and that is more important to me than the anger, and much stronger. If god refuses to provide an explanation, same thing -- I'd still be angry, but my overriding emotions would be joy and love. If there is no god, then while I might still be angry about the situation in general, there would be no being towards whom I could/should direct that anger, so my guess is that it would probably largely dissipate with time.

I don't think any true god (by which I mean an actual creator, a sentient being, as opposed to just some despot who set itself up in a position of power), capable of creating the universe and everything in it, including humans and all living beings, would have any problem with dealing with human emotions (which, if it is our creator, it instilled in us anyway). Any true god, in my opinion, can handle negative emotions from its children, just as a good person can handle anger from a loved one and still maintain a loving relationship (at least, most of the time). If I can get into an argument with a loved one in which one or both of us gets really angry, but we still love each other and work through the anger and the situation, then I'm sure the creator of the universe can handle the same.

 

[BruceAdama]

Thank you for that reply, bluebird… yeah, I agree with most everything you’ve said there… it’s natural to have some degree of anger or sadness, what have you. My question regarding being able to outwardly express such emotions at will was geared more to the general idea that if we are to accept that the afterlife realm is a place where we know only joy, and there’s no suffering or pain, etc… then the allowance of the expression of anger or sadness by anyone there might invalidate that, as then, there WOULD be a degree of pain there, via emotions like anger, etc… which would probably be felt via ripple effect and affect the vibrations of others. Again, IDK at all if any of this is possible, and even if so, it assumes that some would CHOOSE to express such feelings… but that was why I think those things are blocked from us… to prevent such negativity from spreading and infecting higher vibrations or whatever.