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Why the after life probably isn't true as far as I can tell.

Discussion in 'General Afterlife Discussions' started by Club Tropicana, Sep 30, 2017.

  1. Club Tropicana

    Club Tropicana New Member

    The trouble is unfortunately mate is when I ask my questions I'm always insulted and accused of being closed minded, ignorant, uneducated etc. I don't believe any of this is true, I have a vested interest in an afterlife existing. Believe me I'm not here just to beat up on your views, I just don't believe they're true as much as I want too.
     
  2. jimrich

    jimrich Active Member

    Bodies "die" but "we" do not "die" - we are eternal being, energy or consciousness. It's not my fault that so many others do not KNOW this for them selves.
     
  3. Club Tropicana

    Club Tropicana New Member

    How do we know at what point the memories of that NDE are formed though? How do we know that someone is having one of these experiences when their brain is showing no activity? How do we know this doesn't happen when they're just coming back to life and the electronic activity starts up again?
     
  4. Club Tropicana

    Club Tropicana New Member

    How do you know this?
     
  5. Club Tropicana

    Club Tropicana New Member

    You aren't obliged to answer me within a set amount of time or even at all, I don't understand what you're getting at. I was asked why I had not responded.
     
  6. Bill Z

    Bill Z Active Member

    Hello C.T. I think I understand that you are very, very skeptical about what is discussed here, but you come back for reasons only you can fathom.
    30 years ago I'd have thought everyone posting here was a total nut case, 20 years ago I started having experiences, today I check in here on a daily basis as I do on several other sites that would have been in my "nut case" designation 30 years ago.

    You mention " I am however interested in is not having to have reoccurring anxiety attacks regarding death." and that IMO is a very valid point. Death sucks on purely human terms but none of us are purely human. Don't know if that makes any sense. I know several people who have lashed out at people who have transitioned or others around them because in purely human terms, death is totally frightening, anxiety provoking. Perhaps your perceived negativity is just the human reaction to something as frightening as death.

    I hope you continue to visit here and explore other sites, books, etc regarding what IMO believe is the truth that life never ends only changes.
    Peace.
     
    Club Tropicana likes this.
  7. jimrich

    jimrich Active Member

    Based on my experiences with Dis-incarnates (dead people!), this is absolutely FALSE. My late wife, mother and bother-in-law are still as alive as they ever were in this (Earthly) Incarnate dimension but you'd have to get your own realizations to prove that to your self as I and many others have done through Mediums and/or our own direct contacts with Dis-incarnates. Believe what you like but the dead are not dead and are just as alive as you are right now but they're living a much more wonderful and eternal life than most of us Incarnates can enjoy in this dimension.
     
  8. Club Tropicana

    Club Tropicana New Member

    Thank you for your polite response Bill, I appreciate it. Regardless of how I've been perceived by others thus far I am not here to be anybodies enemy. I want you and the other believers to be right, hopefully I'll be swayed further down the line and come to your way of thinking.

    Cheers.
     
  9. Club Tropicana

    Club Tropicana New Member

    Sorry Jim I don't want to take that away from you, I'm glad you've got your beliefs and that you find comfort in that. I'm not even going to begin to try and change your beliefs on this matter. I personally can't imagine losing my partner or a parent and I dread and ruminate daily about the day this will happen. You have my absolute symphony and I wish you the very best, I'd never engage in this conversation with you personally having known what I now know about your wife etc.

    All the best Jim.
     
  10. jimrich

    jimrich Active Member

    I have said many times (look at my posts) that I cannot prove what I "know" - I just know it. You can come to the same "knowing" by doing what many of us have done in here. Read some more posts and get some hints or clues for your own adventure into the "knowing" that you may not be able to prove to anyone.
     
  11. jimrich

    jimrich Active Member

    What I now know and can speak about is NOT a belief or even a set of "beliefs". Call them"beliefs" if it makes you feel better but I am sharing FACTS - but cannot prove they are facts in a conventional way. I no longer simply or stupidly "believe" we don't die - I absolutely know that we do not die. Nobody and nothing actually dies! The apparent vehicle, body or form CHANGES but we/you do not die! It's not a belief - it's a fact! A fact that I don't currently know how to prove to anybody else.
     
  12. Club Tropicana

    Club Tropicana New Member

    That's fine Jim, I sincerely hope you meet your loved ones again one day. I wouldn't want to tackle this subject with someone who has suffered loss on the scale that you have. I've been extremely fortunate in that I've never lost someone close to me however I'm still a fairly young man. I hope when the day comes when I do have to face these awful losses that I have the same knowledge you currently have and I'm made away of the facts you've been talking about.
     
  13. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    Then it's YOU who has to take the first steps along that route. But please don't fall into a trap of thinking that your standards of 'proof' (evidence - there is no 'proof') are more demanding than mine or others. We're not dumbos who accept just anything from anybody.

    And WE'RE not 'believers' either - we're certain about what we know. That's what you should aspire to if you'll forgive my setting the bar, providing you a benchmark....
     
  14. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    Do you think this is a place for psycho-therapy, somewhere to provide a salve for your anxiety? Not so but when you approach the subject in the manner that we do you WILL stand a better chance of success. It's over to you pal.

    As for the main thrust of the website you're treating it and us with contempt that you're on the site, using it but declaring you haven't explored what it's about. shidad :rolleyes:
     
  15. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    If you ever hope to be free of fear - which you can be, more easily than you can imagine! - you will have to do three things:

    1) Stop saying that you are a non-believer. Each time you say that, or even really think it, you further harden your mind. What you need to do is start saying, "I am going to convince myself that all of this is real!" Open your mind as much as you can, and then go for it.

    2) Educate yourself. There are many wonderful books on afterlife-related topics - my The Fun of Dying has a good annotated bibliography of 70-odd books, and those are just a sample! Just read, read, and keep reading while you keep insisting to yourself that your mind is open.

    3) Then open your mind even more, as you come across things that seize your mind in particular. To this day, I still recall some of the bits of evidence that first hit me over the head in particular.

    Do all of this for a solid year. Then let's see how much progress you have made!
     
    Nirvana and Club Tropicana like this.
  16. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    How do YOU - how do WE - know anything about anything? You/we either learned from someone more knowledgeable than yourself/ourselves or you/we picked it up by studying suitable material and applying our minds to the task of analysing what we found.
     
  17. Club Tropicana

    Club Tropicana New Member

    I honestly don't regard myself as more intelligent than anyone else here, I don't believe you believe what you do because you're necessarily stupid either. I listen to people's arguments and they either make sense to me or they don't, when I listen to afterlife debates I'm always far more convinced by the arguements the neuroscientists, atheists etc than I am that of the believers. If I'm wrong does that mean I was stupider than yourself? I don't necessarily believe so. I don't want you to think I'm calling you stupid, I believe your view point is incorrect on this particular issue and that's it.

    I don't know that what you're saying isn't correct I just don't know how you know that it is. The terrorists on 9/11 knew that their cause and beliefs were right and were willing to fly planes into buildings to demonstrate this fact. Truth isn't based on how strongly you believe something or how strongly you disbelieve.
     
  18. Club Tropicana

    Club Tropicana New Member

    I appreciate the advice Roberta, many thanks.
     
  19. Club Tropicana

    Club Tropicana New Member

    I don't know if we can know anything for certain, I believe what I believe based on what we can observe and demonstrate using the scientific method. I believe science is the single most reliably consistent method we have for assessing the true nature of our reality. I don't assert that it is the only method or that you or anyone else doesn't have some superior method but as far as I can tell nobody does.
     
  20. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    I don't believe - as you put it - anything in terms of spiritual issues. I either have found out it's the case or I leave it pending until I have. Takes time, takes study, takes learning, takes a mature approach.... When you can justify your belief that I don't have things right then I'll listen to what you have to say. Til then put up or shut up. You have a long road to walk because you haven't even begun to try to take the first step.

    As for terrorists there's a difference between them and me. I'm not peddling a cause and not killing anyone to support it. Truth is what is true and there are no gradations of truth. But each understands only so much of the total, and some bugger all!

    Good luck because you'll need it.
     
  21. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    Yeah that's bang on right - you don't know and what's more you don't know how much you don't know - ask Donny Rumsfeld about that....

    Science takes you deep into what's known about the science that's known about. But what about the science that's not yet known about? Scientific principles get applied to what I do - I'm analytical by training and by nature. But I also know stuff that our sciences can't yet explain and may never explain if they don't obey this physical dimension's sciences. Think they're the ONLY sciences? If so, think again....
     
  22. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    Wonder if you'll take it? Or even consider it? o_O
     
  23. Club Tropicana

    Club Tropicana New Member

    I go through phases of being able to tackle these questions and not being able too as the more I think about this subject the more fixated I become and ultimately the more bothered and negative I feel. Don't get me wrong i'm not a manic depressive or anything like that but the concept of death is incredibly unsettling and challenging for me to come to terms with and it most certainly does affect my mood. If there's an antidote to this problem I'm more than willing to consider it.
     
  24. Club Tropicana

    Club Tropicana New Member

    When it comes to the afterlife I am using what we do know or what we appear to know regarding our knowledge of the brain and using that information to form my opinion. There may well be some undetectable scientific quality of the brain that we don't know about that means we live forever but as it's undetectable using the tools we have and as it comes into conflict with what we have previously learned I don't believe I personally would be justified in believing it. If we learn about some extra layer of science that points to my current opinion being wrong then I'll reassess my views on the subject happily.
     
  25. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    My impression - based on what you're writing - is that you'll struggle to approach this subject systematically and methodically. At your young age it's maybe not too surprising but maybe also you need to put more effort into getting on with life and enjoying yourself? I'm being serious.
     
  26. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    Fair comment but you've got some way to go in your search.
     
  27. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    I'm off - Mexican train this evening!
     
  28. Bill Z

    Bill Z Active Member

    Mac, safe travels to Mexico. I had some incredible spiritual experiences in the Yucatan, hope you have a chance to visit there.
    C.T. I think it's good that you question all of this. As some others have mentioned here I don't so much believe as KNOW from what I've experienced. But at the same time my little human mind continues to grieve my loss every freaking day, some days worse than others. As I mentioned I went to 3 mediums/psychics whatever you want to call them and they all expressed things to me that they could not have had knowledge of. On one meeting after the person showed me that they were truly in contact with Her (again because they explained in detail things that only Susie and I knew/experienced so I trusted them), Susie told me "I am no longer human, you still are, I am Spirit. I understand your pain but I see things from a different perspective. I know who you were, who you are and who you will be". In a loving way She told me She is coming from a different relation with Source than I am capable of at present. I go on with what I KNOW but my "humanity" makes it so f-ing hard to comprehend sometimes.
    This thread gets contentious sometimes and I understand that. If someone questions my communication with little Susie I'm ready to kick ass and perhaps that happens here. None of us would be having these conversations if we didn't either experience such unimaginable loss or are contemplating such a loss.
    This is a wonderful, informative, helpful site but many of us posting here, me included, are still bleeding profusely in a spiritual, sense so a lot of what is posted here can easily cut to the bone because of our human fragility.
    I applaud the fact that you are visiting here and exploring. Peace.
     
  29. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    ah - Mexican Train - it's a domino game we play in our rec. hall - nothing so exciting as travel south of the border although I wouldn't really be interested at present - plenty to do in North America. :)
     
  30. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    Your situation is a sad one, bill, and not made much easier by knowing your wife isn't far away. In general terms any bereavement remains one of loss and missing someone's physical presence. Even understanding and accepting death and survival doesn't change that loss but may help take a little of the sting out of the situation. I wonder, though, if knowing that your loved one is close sometimes delays acclimatisation to their passing.

    There can be a significant difference beween an (evidential) medium and a psychic, even though the words are often used interchangeably nowadays, especially so in the USA. In general a psychic may 'pick up' from their seeker details which can be fed back to give the impression the information has originated from a discarnate source - I'm not saying this is your situation - it's general observation about psychic reading and even psychics may also have some contact with spirit individuals. From reading your other postings I'm sure your wife has been making contact with you.


    At other times, in other forums and threads, I've stressed the problems faced when conversations about such deep subjects are held in isolation, without an understanding and familiarity with 'the big picture'. What you've related about what your wife has said makes total sense to me but years ago it wouldn't have.

    I am always wary when I hear for the first time accounts like your own. Further information from later postings paints a better picture but I try not to sound too sceptical if I respond. If I ever have then I apologise. But it's natural for any individual - in my view - to wonder about what they're hearing when such unusual accounts appear. It's natural human nature to doubt and question. Maybe that's what's happened here and in my fairly wide experience of forums similar happens elsewhere too.

    Others find similar, bill, and no matter how compassionate and empathetic folk may be they can't change anything for you. I'm always uncomfortable when someone's specific difficulties become a general converation but I'm afraid I have to say that forums often work that way. Folk hear stuff they want to pick up on but it ought to be taken away to another thread and out of the context of an individual's personal situation. It doesn't often happen, though, and dicussions will come over as hurtful when they're not intended that way at all.

    I'm sorry if that's what has happened to you, bill.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2017

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