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why do we need to learn lessions through incarnation?

Discussion in 'Spiritual Growth & Development' started by Richard, Nov 11, 2011.

  1. Annie

    Annie New Member

    Maybe God didn't need to come here and learn lessons, but instead maybe God wanted to. Or maybe we wanted to...maybe we're all part of God and yet still somehow separate, and always have been, and when we get to level 7 maybe we won't become God but will just be closer to that divine force. Or maybe that divine force is just all of our energies the way they are now, maybe God isn't really a separate energy or force but just something intangible, like love.

    But then how do we explain ACIM, was Helen Schucman the real deal, was she making it up, was she adding a bit of her own theories, or was she channeling a spirit who had a very positive message but maybe didn't have ALL the answers? Oh well, I'm fairly openminded, I won't close myself off entirely to any theory regarding this. I do wish I knew the answer though for certain!
  2. Before I started reading about the afterlife, I just preferred to free roll it and let my senses influence my opinions about the things I was experiencing. Never having had any religion made that much easier. I tried to avoid too much influence from others because none of it really seemed to fit.

    It's amazing how much you can correctly grasp if you just let yourself find the answer within you. A year ago I told a friend I thought of God as a consciousness and have referred to it several times as the God Consciousness since for no other reason than that's what I felt. Annie you seemed to have a good feel for what I'm talking about when it comes to what feels right. Andrew said it best a while back - sometimes you just know.

    We've all learned so much from Roberta and the books we've read and having Carol and Mikey here now just blows my mind. Having them confirm so much is an indescribable feeling.
  3. Richard

    Richard Active Member

    I believe, and this is just my intuition, that the God Consciousness as RudeAwakening terms it, (which I believe is a wonderful descriptive term), while perfect, is capable of evolving, and perfecting. To me this would make sense of our incarnation. I think people put to much into god is perfect, and unchanging. I know little about ACIM, so I really can't comment on it, but from what I have seen of it I have a hard time understanding it. That would explain, I believe we value life so much, as every individual is a unique perspective on the world for the God Consciousness, and through our experiences, the God Consciousness obtains greater perfection and love.
  4. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    All wise questions, dear wonderful Annie, Awakening, and Richard! I think the primary problem that all of us have in trying to understand what is going on is that our experience, our scope of observation, and our reasoning ability while in bodies are all so limited. It's like having your pet cats speculate about why sometimes you are sitting down and sometimes you are standing up: they don't know enough about human life even to formulate that question. Very advanced beings tell us that from our earthly perspective we cannot understand what is going on, so there is no point in trying. And I get that. I also realize that the answer may well be that the whole notion of absolutes is a material-universe-based limitation, and in the greater reality there may be no absolutes: there are hints of that in the afterlife evidence. In effect, there may be no objective truth except perfect love, so my truth and yours and everyone else's may all be personal to us. I do realize all these things, dear friends. But that doesn't keep me from still wanting to know ;-)!
  5. Gypsyblue

    Gypsyblue Active Member

  6. This is what I believe that most channeled material is -- positive messages from well-intentioned spiritual beings from lower Summerland levels who are just as confused as we are here in the earthplane. There is one line in the text where "Jesus" quotes himself presumably from the gospels, except that it's actually a quote from Shakespeare. Oopsie!

    BTW, there are a number of biographies written about Helen and co-scribe Bill Thetford. Both were Jewish, both psychologists at Columbia University. Helen, because of her profession, claimed to be an atheist, though she had a lot of exposure to Catholicism through her nanny. Bill's parents were Christian Scientists until Bill's sibling died at a young age of some disease. Bill spent much of his childhood quite ill. Though ACIM's primary message is forgiveness, Bill and Helen never got along well and were not on speaking terms when Helen was dying of pancreatic cancer.

    ACIM, IMO, is excellent, I highly recommend doing the Workbook, a lesson a day for a year. But channeled by Jesus? -- I'm doubtful. Bill was also very doubtful about Jesus being the author. That concept was primarily espoused by Dr. Ken Wapnick, another Jewish psychologist who joined a Catholic monastery at one point in his life. What St Paul was to Christianity, Ken Wapnick is to ACIM. Ken and Bill never got along. The three of them after doing the workbook together came to the conclusion, based on Ken's book, that "we did our part, Jesus did not live up to His end of the deal". That primarily because the three of them never got along (except for Helen and Ken). ACIM and the players behind it, all well-intentioned, is a fascinating story. ACIM's message is outstanding. Not so much "forgiveness", but a complete "letting go of grievances".
  7. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    Fascinating, Vic - thanks for sharing! I have read much of this information, but years ago - it's great that you have given all of us a refresher. And Ken Wapnick as St. Paul - I smile at that - great analogy! Where the Course itself is concerned, the proof of its value seems to be in the lives that it improves - but who the author really is it is impossible to know at this point. Ironic, isn't it, that the core teachings of the Course were ignored by its foremost popularizers?
  8. Annie

    Annie New Member

    Great posts you guys! Awakening, I'm the same way, I was raised semi-Catholic (went to a public school but occasionally went to church) but never paid attention in church and my mom kind of eventually lost interest too. I think I'm pretty intuitive but I've never gone through anything like you or a lot of people have gone through and don't really have loved ones who have passed. But somehow, I just know these things are true, I always have, I've always known God was loving even when I was a kid, even when it was being preached to me otherwise. It's strange how it works!

    Roberta, you raise good points. Maybe there really isn't an answer, aside from love. Maybe we weren't ever really created, we always have been who we are, and we're just advancing slowly but surely...I just don't know, maybe I don't really need to know though. I like your cat analogy...you're right, probably not much use in trying now.

    Vic, I have to agree with you about the well-meaning spirit who probably wasn't Jesus but had very good intentions but might be confused too. Sometimes when I've listened to seances, the spirits say that they don't really understand everything yet, even though they're in the Summerland. I used to kind of think that death mean we become omniscient, but unfortunately that doesn't seem to be the case. That being said, I do think love and forgiveness are very important and essential, I've never heard anything to contradict that and it's one of the things I think is always a safe bet, even when other elements of the afterlife are not so cut and dry.
  9. I think earlier in this post Mikey said that God is not an individual being, but pure unconditional love -- imo probably the most important message on this forum. Indeed when we make the transition back Home and we meet some being who tries to tell us about reincarnation, or life lessons that we missed, or tries to put us on a guilt trip with a life review, ignore them. We should be welcomed home the same way the father welcomed his prodigal son in Luke 15:11-32, anything else is a part of the illusion. And, yes, learning and practicing love (metta) and forgiveness (letting go) is the best thing we can do prepare for our journey back Home.

    As to why we came here in the first place, I'll be danged if I know. But knowing God to be unconditional love, it must have been for a Good reason, not a punishment, we didn't fall from God's grace, or turn our backs on God, or because some cosmic mistake was made -- we must have freely chosen this role as imperfect beings in a imperfect world out of pure unconditional love. Though it often feels like I made a mistake coming here. :)

    With Lovingkindness (metta),
  10. Thanks for the new word, vic. I think the world needs more metta.

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