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When does the soul/spirit enter the body?

Discussion in 'General Afterlife Discussions' started by Corey, Jan 10, 2017.

  1. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    I am able to identify with this description of life, because during an NDE I was unconscious of life on this earth but conscious of life somewhere else. It seems as if I was watching a lot of, what appeared to be, movies in a 360 degree theater. I know now that I was reviewing dreams of former lives. There were other times when I was involved in the dream. I wanted to remain in that dream, but after a little while things turned odd and unpleasant. That is when I asked Consciousness to rescue me. I never saw It, but we had telepathic communication. It asked me why I needed rescuing and I said that this was not the world that I knew as 'home'. It rescued me from the world, things turned dark and sooner or later another dream began to roll. I eventually asked Consciousness what was going on. It relayed to my mind that I needed to wake up in order to experience life incarnate instead of in the dreams, and when I did wake up things would be familiar once more. During the dreams everything looked like this earth, but the people were were really rude and odd which gave my whole experience in those other places an eerie vibe.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2018
  2. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    Please check your Inbox - the tab is at the the top of each page.
     
  3. brexit

    brexit Guest

    Souls are eternal spiritual energies that on Earth are having a physical experience in the physical dimension. Nothing physical or non physical can exist without a soul. Everything has a soul from the moment it comes into existence. A soul does not live on a timeline. It does not have a beginning and an end. It never dies. For anything to exist, a soul must wish it to exist. If a soul ‘says’ it wants to be a house, a specific house will come into existence in order for that soul to experience life as a house. This is true for everything. God’s will is to have souls experience the unlimited expressions of himself. Everything is created by God and everything is an expression of God.
     
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  4. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    Curious choice of username for a New Yorker - commented on by a Brit facing brexit shortly. Are you in the city or out in the boonies?
     
  5. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    As so often we went way off-topic in this longish thread. As a reminder this is what was asked originally "When does the soul/spirit enter the body?"
     
  6. RitaNoel

    RitaNoel New Member

    I too believe the soul enters the body when the babies take their first breath. Just like the Bible says: ‘after God made Adam he blew into his nostrils the breath of life’. I think Adam soul enters his body after he took his first breath.
     
  7. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    I think the soul/spirit is the body before and at conception. It is part of the mysterious process of incarnation. The fertilized ovum grows, and without the spirit/soul there could be nor would be growth, and the fertilized ovum grows into a baby and goes on through many stages in life.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2018
  8. ravensgate

    ravensgate Active Member

    Based on what I read, the spirit may choose to enter and leave the developing fetus at will. It will then inhabit the body hours or days prior to birth. However, there are instances when the spirit will decide to leave permanently, and that is why, supposedly, we have stillbirths. All this based on readings, mainly those by dr. Newton and a few others (forget which "others" at the moment!). Who really knows? :confused:
     
  9. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    There is a great deal of evidence that, while the stage of development at attachment varies, in most cases the pairing of the incarnating being with his or her body happens even before conception, and attachment happens either then or very soon thereafter. As is true after we are born and for the rest of our earth-lives, we can come and go at will, but our attachment to that body virtually always happens before the end of the first trimester... generally long before.
     
  10. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    Who knows for sure why he/she would? :( At least this side of the divide.
     
  11. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    The individual who became Adam may have done just that but it doesn't necessarily follow that all births are similar.
     
  12. genewardsmith

    genewardsmith Active Member

    What evidence?
     
    bluebird likes this.
  13. ravensgate

    ravensgate Active Member

    In my previous post, I mentioned Dr. Newton's subjects' recollection of their life between lives, and could not remember the other books that resonated with me.
    Went looking for them and found them. One is "Born to live" by Dr. Gladys McGarey, MD.
    The other book I enjoyed is "Cosmic cradle".

    As previously stated, I believe the spirit chooses when to enter the unborn; could be hours, days, weeks. Spirit could change his/her mind, as the little girl who chose to leave (stillborn) because her hands were malformed. When she returned (was born again) she told her mother why she had left, then showed her hands, proud they were "all right!" I think it's pretty much spirit's choice. No-one knows for sure.

    If I may, I'm pasting a few passages from "Born to live":

    “I aborted two souls many years ago and they both came back to me (together, holding hands, a boy and a girl) to tell me that they understood why I did what I did and that it was all part of the plan.
    “It was truly wonderful and so healing for me. They told me they loved me, then turned and walked away, still holding hands.
    “I never saw them again. I still remember that experience like it was yesterday. I had just finished doing yoga and way lying on the floor and then, there they were. I knew exactly who they were.
    “What struck me the most was the love I felt from them. Gives me goose bumps just writing about it!”

    Lisbeth gained the insight that abortion is not a life-or-death issue for the Spirit Baby. Unborn children already know they are eternal beings having a temporary human experience. So death isn’t such a “big deal” to a Spirit Baby or unborn Soul.




    One source to consider is the innocently-shared pre-birth memories of children who are much too young to have been privy to their mother’s previous miscarriage or abortion:
    A little girl is sitting on the kitchen floor playing with her doll, while Mom is preparing dinner.
    Out of the blue, the little girl looks up at Mom and says: “Mom, remember when I was in your tummy but you were too young to have me and so you went to this place and they took me out of your tummy?”
    Mom nearly dropped what she was holding, because her teenage abortion was a major family secret that certainly was not shared with her daughter.
    A few minutes later, the little girl looked back up to her Mom with a big smile and said: “I am so glad I could come back again to be your little girl!”

    For me, one of the important points is that sometimes a woman will feel torn and guilty if unable to bring the pregnancy to term, regardless of the reason. This may be especially so in the case of abortion. For some, abortion equals the killing of a soul, but the way I see it, a soul cannot be killed by an abortion just as it cannot be destroyed by physical death. We may mourn the absence of the physical but we know the spiritual is very much alive.

    Something concerns me about this topic... It could turn into a thorny subject because we're just a few steps away from the great debate of "When does life begin?"
    Would not surprise me if we end up debating abortion, and as we know, abortion, sexual orientation, religion, and politics tend to bring out the passions within!
    Should we move the topic, mac? :D:D
    Just my opinions, of course!
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2018
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  14. bluebird

    bluebird Well-Known Member

    Agreed, regarding birthday. Plus, it's unlikely that "Adam" was a real person -- it's an illustrative story.
     
  15. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    I..........
    Could be anything..... Belief is fine but we don't have any guidance I find authoritative and the point of 'entry' may vary widely from individual to individual.



    As discarnates we already know what's what - at least in some measure of detail - before we incarnate. Corporeal death is an issue for incarnates to experience and our experience of the death of a baby or child is something we can experience only here in the physical - and the same goes for that baby/child. Both parent and baby / would-be child learn from their experience and the situation is not one of death for the young one having no importance.




    agreed

    I'm monitoring things - it's all good for now. :)
     
    ravensgate likes this.
  16. ravensgate

    ravensgate Active Member

    Bluebird, I too think it is an illustrative story, but there is a little something that's always perplexed me.
    Are we all inbred? When I asked my co-worker, he just roared and said he'd never thought of that! Said he'd have to "think about that one", lol.
    It may be naive of me, but if we are to believe the Bible in its literal sense (as most Christians do); if Adam and Eve had 2 children (Abel and Cain) and we all descend from them, what happened there?? Something doesn't add up! Then again there are many Bible fables that just mns :p
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2018
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  17. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    I think that story is a little out-of-step with the 21st century. :D
     
  18. ravensgate

    ravensgate Active Member

    I think many stories in the Bible make little sense - to me, anyway. However, I know many devout Christians who tell me that whatever is in the Bible is true. Jonah really ended up in the whale's stomach, Noah really gathered every animal, etc. they believe it, and get quite offended if/when I say that, in my opinion, the Bible is rich with contradictions. I also point out that when the Bible was first written, punctuation did not exist, and one day Aristophanes had enough, so he tried to do something about it, lol. There are passages in the Bible that, when you change the location of the punctuation, the entire sentence can be interpreted/read another way.
    My observation about Adam and Eve was based on, "if the Bible is to be taken literally" - as some do...
    Anyway, I added this to the pot and shouldn't have.... my apologies :oops:
     
    bluebird likes this.
  19. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    no matter - not many up this late and there will be others adding their tuppence worth tomorrow perhaps... Probably gone as far as we can with the original topic anyway.
     
  20. ravensgate

    ravensgate Active Member

    :cool: Old age keeps me up until 0200 or so, mac. Babbling is an extra bonus of old age, lol.

    Well, I'd better take this old body to bed and watch a few episodes of Frasier Crane.
     
  21. bluebird

    bluebird Well-Known Member

    lol, I know. One of the reasons why I don't take the bible literally. I've found that it's mainly the fundamentalist, evangelical Christians that take the bible literally; most of the rest seem able to realize that it's largely metaphor and symbolism, with some history, philosophy, and literature also in the mix.
     
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  22. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    What evidence, Gene? Primarily communications from people we used to think were dead, including what they have to say about the process of life-planning. As I put it all together, my hunch based on all the evidence is that the assignment of the new life to one of the (reportedly very many) beings who want to use that life happens even before conception. Remember that there is no objective time there, and they know who is about to conceive! And the winner of the who-gets-this-life? lottery generally attaches pretty quickly, if only to confirm its claim to the body. That being can later detach during gestation if circumstances in that family change, or even for no reason at all, at which point someone else will be allowed to claim and attach to the body. But the mechanism is pretty clearly understood by people who have done their research!

    To claim that the baby is nobody until it takes its first breath is comforting for pro-abortion folks, but there is no basis for it in the afterlife evidence. No scientific basis for it, either. What, they breathe in life itself? How does that work??
     
  23. Ski

    Ski New Member

    I believe the spirit enters at the time of conception. I've heard of other stories, but I have not seen what happens. I believe it is at the time or close time of conception. It would be hard to see how a baby can have a heartbeat, move about, swim through the uterus at 3 months gestation, or suck it's thumb...without a soul. If the baby dos not have a life force, or soul until 8-9 months along....then it would not be alive, imo.
     
  24. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    Yep. The fact that every abortion takes a human life is an inconvenient truth for many people, but truth it is nonetheless!
     
  25. bluebird

    bluebird Well-Known Member

    In my opinion, there's no way to know. At the very beginning, the fetus is physically nothing more than a group of cells; whether or not there is a soul animating that tiny bit of life, we really cannot know. Assuming that human souls actually do exist, then I tend to think the soul enters the fetal body at some point prior to birth, but again, there is no way to know when (and I could be wrong, anyway). Perhaps there isn't one set point at which the soul enters the body; perhaps it's different for each life, possibly the point of soul entry is chosen by the soul itself.
     
  26. dingodile

    dingodile Member

    Whether or not Adam and Eve existed, we are all inbred, unless you believe that large populations of humans have simply always existed. There's an interesting quora essay about this: https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-lowest-number-that-the-human-population-has-ever-been

    Incidentally, the "fundamentalist" reply to the inbreeding problem is that inbreeding is indeed only a problem because mutations have entered the genome, and inbreeding increases the likelihood that unfavorable genes will be expressed. But, the argument goes, in early Adamic times these mutations were not yet present, so incest and inbreeding carried no genetic risk. Scientifically there's nothing wrong with that answer. Adam and Eve may well be mythology, but that will have to be decided on other grounds.

    This argument presupposes that the soul is the same as the life force, and indeed that there is such a thing as a life force. Some, for example, would say that in cases of permanent vegetative state the soul has already departed, but the body remains alive. If this is so, the soul cannot be identical with the life force (again assuming there is such a thing as a life force). If we're going to speculate about when the soul "arrives" we need to be clear about just what the soul is and is not.
     
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  27. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    Some would say the opposite about the persistent vegetative state.

    If one accepts the oft-taught notion that death of the total individual ('body-and-soul') comes about when body and soul (spirit) part company then an individual in a persistent vegetative state must still be animated (to a greater or lesser degree) by its spirit. Whether the soul=the life force=the spirit isn't something I concern myself over.

    Let me know how that works out for you! :D It would probably be the first time we'd be clear on anything about life, death and what follows that we end up her on ALF discussing, debating or speculating about.;)

    What I think folk would like to understand is at what point a baby/child becomes a discrete, albeit still-dependent, entity. I think.....
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2018
  28. Ski

    Ski New Member

    Well, from what I saw in my NDE, it's some kind of energy...to me, thats what I saw. However, like Mac pretty much said....there's no proof. It's all speculation and our opinions. I did not see or know in my NDE, about when the soul enters the body. I just gave my opinion off my own observation of my own sons ultrasound when I was 3 months pregnant. If that wasn't him in there moving, and swimming like an energetic fish.....Id like to know who the heck it was.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2018
  29. mareke

    mareke New Member

    Michael Newton hypnotised over 7,000 people during his life regressing them to what he called the superconscious state where they remembered being in the spirit world before coming here. Based on what his subjects revealed the soul doesn't join the foetus until at least the end of the first trimester.

     
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  30. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    That's an interesting account, probably needing more consideration. o_O
     

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