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When does the soul/spirit enter the body?

Discussion in 'General Afterlife Discussions' started by Corey, Jan 10, 2017.

  1. Corey

    Corey Member

    Does anyone know if there's any evidence on when the spirit/soul enters the human body? I was telling my (skeptical) father about all of my recent afterlife research, and he was asking me about abortions and what happens to aborted fetuses in the afterlife. He was asking this sarcastically, but I nonetheless told him I knew that babies that died were raised in the afterlife by deceased family members, but I wasn't sure at what point the spirit entered the body to begin with. Could it possibly be at the moment of conception? I feel that if it isn't, any later point in time would feel too arbitrary to make sense, but then my feeling about abortions kind of changes (I'm normally pro-choice). By the way, I'm NOT interested in getting into politics here, but the whole abortion issue did raise an interesting afterlife question.
     
  2. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    This is a topic that gets raised periodically. My answer isn't about the ethics of termination and has relevance to miscarriage and neo-natal death.

    The animating spirit of one particular, developing foetus may spend more time than the animating spirit of another before finally, totally interpenetrating the fully-developed baby at emergence into this physical world. That's the 'point-of-no-return' although the spirit may sometimes spend a little time back in the etheric dimension it recently left.

    The important thing to remember is that from the outset body and spirit are attached to one another by the so-called silver cord, the 'etheric umbilical tether'. That link is created between the two at the time the spirit begins to animate the embryo/foetus.
     
  3. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    Corey, Mac's answer is a good one. In point of fact, the body and the being who will use it seem generally to be matched either at or even before conception, and attachment occurs either at conception or soon thereafter. But to be in a fetus is bo-o-oring, so evidence suggests that we come and go and only begin to spend most of our time in the fetus sometime in the third trimester. But, yes, abortion always ends a human life that has been carefully preparing to enter an incarnation. That being the case, aborted or miscarried fetuses do need to grow up in the afterlife levels, which is a process that seems to take just a few earth years in most cases.
     
  4. Corey

    Corey Member

    Thanks for the responses guys! That explanation makes complete sense. But what if they're aborted within a month of conception? What would there really be to "grow up" or raise in the afterlife? That's the only part that stumps me.
     
  5. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    I agree it's a tough one to figure. Perhaps breaking the situation into small parts might help.

    If we accept the notion of survival and what's been taught repeatedly by teachers and guides, at physical death the animating spirit of ANY incarnate returns whence it came, back to the so-called world of the spirit. The physical body it animated could be anything from not-even-born right up to the oldest, frailest one but the process for either essentially remains the same; the so-called silver cord breaks at physical death, body and soul 'part company'.

    On return to the etheric world it's been taught that we will have an etheric body counterpart of the one in which we were last living. It's also taught our bodies will be unaffected by the ailments experienced when incarnate. If we died old then after a time our forms will revert to those of mature, but not geriatric, adults. That state will presumably be brought about under our spirits' control of our etheric forms. Additionally those who die old and frail will look younger and, by the same token, those who pass before mature adulthood - again presumably - will control their immature etheric bodies to bring them to maturity. In doing that it appears they will pass through the stages of childhood they didn't experience in the physical world. Immature spirit forms will be nurtured and supported ways similar to how children here are cared for.

    It's arguable that many important experiences of childhood on earth will be missing in the etheric so 'growing up' there will be different. It's not easy to grasp and I admit it's something whose details I still puzzle over.

    Before long, though, I'll be 'over there' and things should again be clear. :)
     
  6. Widdershins3

    Widdershins3 Active Member

    This has always interested me too, since I had several miscarriages back in the 60's. Over the years since then, I've read a ton of books written by mediums and also talked to a really gifted medium about it and the only people who said the soul was "in residence" in the fetus from conception were folks who had very strong conservative religious beliefs. The vast majority said that the soul didn't fully inhabit the new body until about mid-way through the pregnancy and that in some cases it didn't stay full-time until just before birth. (Though the body may have been selected very early, on the basis of the parents' qualities) And I can't recall many authors on the afterlife who haven't talked about the many children being raised in a breathtakingly beautiful Summerland-like place--even some people who are just having NDE's or OBE's have reported seeing them in the care of relatives and souls who have an interest in nurturing children. I wish so much that this was better known, since many women suffer guilt for a lifetime after an abortion or miscarriage.
     
    Amore likes this.
  7. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    At the risk of repeating myself if I've already said this, it seems to me that the more experienced the animating spirit is, the more incarnations it has had, then the more adept it should be at animating the developing body it has chosen.

    If that's the case it seems logical to me that a more experienced soul will know how to control its developing body 'from a distance' whereas a less experienced one, or perhaps one about to undertake its first incarnation, may need to interpenetrate/lodge in the developing body more early and more fully. That means there is no single point before birth at which all spirits integrate fully with their new bodies.

    However from the special moment where the new life-form starts its journey in the physical dimension, the animating spirit commits to its role and death of the new body will occur if it later decides to withdraw its commitment.
     
    Widdershins3 likes this.
  8. Widdershins3

    Widdershins3 Active Member

    Please feel free to repeat yourself, Mac, since I'm new here and though I'm trying to get to the older threads to read, it takes more time than I have most days.
     
  9. Annie

    Annie Member

    I've always kind of had an impression that a soul will come and go between the corporeal fetus body and the spirit world, prior to birth. Or, like Mac is saying, maybe it all occurs from a distance until that first breath, which is when a person loses their pre-life memories and can no longer go back. So abortion/miscarriage doesn't necessarily wipe the slate clean, because the soul was not yet completely attached to the body, and the individual might go just pick up where they left off in the afterlife.

    The reason I use italics is because I think it's likely that, as Roberta said, the soul becomes more attached further along in the pregnancy, and some souls might become more attached than others at earlier stages too. I am definitely pro-choice, but very much in a the-sooner-the-better kind of way.
     
  10. Corey

    Corey Member

    Wow, something I never thought of was what Mac said, that if the soul withdraws its commitment to a life, then the baby won't survive birth! I never considered that a reason for stillbirths or miscarriages . . . how interesting. I guess these details don't matter too much, but it is interesting to speculate. :)
     
  11. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    I asked a highly knowledgeable and widely experienced friend about the point we're discussing. He told me very simply that the link is made from the very earliest point that the spirit commits to animating the fertilised egg. Put a different way the soul/spirit becomes attached from the very earliest time we can imagine, the point where a sperm fertilises an egg. At ALL points after that the link is permanent and even the death - intentional or accidental - of the fertilised egg doesn't change that. Put yet another way deliberate termination of pregnancy or miscarrying the developing foetus doesn't alter the status of the would-be animating spirit. The commitment has been made even if the spirit later withdraws from life incarnate.
    It's a possibility but it doesn't automatically mean that all miscarriages or still-births come about for that reason.
     
  12. Ken

    Ken Member

    Hi guys, just thought I'd share a video with you which relates to this topic. I came across this regression therapy video a little while back and it was quite fascinating for me to see a person remembering what it was like to be in the womb(and other things).

    It comes on at about 29min 20sec into the video:



    Ken
     
  13. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    With all supposed memories, is there a way we can be certain they are genuine and not the product of our fertile imagination?
     
    Rising and Ken like this.
  14. Ken

    Ken Member

    Hey Mac!

    I only began viewing these videos recently so I can't answer your question. I think this video of the
    founder of The Newton Institute for Life Between Lives Hypnotherapy, Michael Newton(Ph.D), may provide an answer to your question in a more professional manner:

    (The answer you're looking for is about 6mins into the video)

    Peace,

    Ken
     
    Daniel Rizo-Patron likes this.
  15. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    He paints a compelling picture - thanks.
     
    Ken likes this.
  16. Annie

    Annie Member

    Most miscarriages occur in the first trimester and it's fairly common, so it does seem likely that a fetus probably does not survive if a soul changes his/her mind. Since most miscarriages happen early on, it seems that most souls make a decision within the first 12 weeks or so, but not always. I've read/heard that babies are more spiritually aware than we realize and that even in very rare cases, some might choose to go back even after birth in the early stages of infancy, resulting in SIDS. Not 100% sure about that though, and don't know if the soul would go back to the afterlife with pre-birth memories or as more of a blank slate. My guess would be the former, or I would hope so anyway.

    I realize I'm contradicting my earlier post when I said "a person loses their pre-life memories and can no longer go back after that first breath" here. :) The more I think about it, the more I don't really know when someone would lose their pre-life memories. Is it the moment of conception, sometime in the middle of pregnancy, or could it even be in the first few months of life? When is it that we stop controlling a body from a distance and feel like we finally, permanently enter it? I think there are a lot of grey areas here.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2017
  17. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    Unless an alternative spirit 'steps in' and undertakes to animate the developing baby's life.

    Miscarriage isn't necessarily down to the disinclination of the animating soul to continue the life it chose. Miscarriage can/may/does occur also if one/some/all of the processes underway in the embryo go wrong.

    It's an interesting hypothesis but is there evidence it's the case? So-called cot death or SIDS may be caused by other factors so how could we tell?

    It's far from clear what the actuality is for all these scenarios. Just one more uncertainty about life, death and what comes next. ;) No shortage of them....
     
  18. georgek

    georgek Member

    Hi,
    I am new here.

    What I can understand, is that the spirit enters the body shortly after birth.
    I am a male so forgive me on this one....

    I understand that at the moment of birth, the baby is slapped on the back by the mid wife?

    It is that moment the soul enters the body and realises the physical anguish of pain away from the spirit world and begins to cry.


    If you think about it, there is no logical reason why a spirit/soul should spend nine months in the tummy without much purpose.

    Just my thoughts
     
  19. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    Forgiveness for being male isn't necessary..... ;)

    I have seen no authoritative guidance over exactly when the soul/spirit finally embeds in the baby and although your idea is likely shared by others it doesn't mean it's correct.

    I could make arguments against the points you've made so we'd end up with opposing perspectives on this subject and still with no certainty whether either of us is right.
     
  20. georgek

    georgek Member

    I recollect reading this many years ago in one of Lobsang Rampa's books.
    He made a point about reincarnation and lessons to be learnt in the physical.

    The bit what I found interesting, was his evaluation on suicides. Plus the aspects of babies dying at birth. It makes a sad point towards Christianity, as whether the soul enters eternal torment or goes to Heaven?
    Christians cannot answer this one, as it does not explain the purpose of Christening or repentance.

    He makes the point that if a person commits suicide, then they are shortening their allotted time on Earth.
    If let us say a minute or even hours. Take someone who was terminally ill and had youthanasia ?
    They are reborn but live for their correct span of how many years they should have lived by being born in another body.

    Personally, based on these principles, I see no reason why the soul should enter long before birth?

    There is also the point of a Trinity that we as humans are consistent of three bodies whilst animals only have two (except some animals)

    The spirit is that from God as we have a physical, and also a soul. Likewise similar to the The Son, The Father and The Holy Ghost.

    Just my opinion
     
  21. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    I prefer to stick to one point at a time - suicide and euthanasia are other issues altogether each deserving of their own thread, something we've given in the past.

    And the actual situation isn't anything directly to do with any of our man-made religions. Some teachings may encompass some of that situation but don't explain the whole picture.
     
  22. georgek

    georgek Member

    Agreed.
    Yet to ascertain certain things there has to be purpose?

    No one will ever know exactly when the soul or spirit enters the body?
    The wider picture often tells a story even though there are inconsistencies.

    By evaluating the purpose of life may unravel it's mysteries as this is all that we have got to play with. Unless there is a special multimetre that we can probe with...lol

    I do not profess to know the answer, but we can always take these things further and look at the persona and to what actually allows development?

    Certain mediums can see the aura and I believe that/ maybe.....there has been an agreement within the world of parapsychologists that the aura forms at a certain time?
    As a man I think:- "Does it matter?"

    To a woman it is a different story as she carries the child from the point of conception. To lose a child may be harsh indeed, so I think it has to be a key consideration as to what point the child is actually a child?
     
  23. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    Your liberal use of question marks - ? - at the end of sentences that are apparently statements leaves me confused whether you're actually making statements or asking questions. o_O

    But we were discussing the point that an animating spirit 'embeds' or interpenetrates the developing body fully and finally. From my experience there was no confusion about when a child is a child whether it's a woman's or even a man's perspective. I'm a male and there was never any doubt that my child was a child for me long before his neo-natal death.

    My wife and I experienced his loss as different people and as different genders but he was a child for both of us long before he left us.
     
  24. georgek

    georgek Member

    Both..as I do not want to appear too presumptuous. People do not like to read a 'big head' and many have said that I make out that I know it all. In a way I do, but that would not be fair if I asked questions, expecting to know the answers. In retrospect, the subject is very ambiguous as no one can be 100% sure although we can be pretty sure
    I like to know what others think as well.

    My senses tells me that you have been through a lot and have lost many.
    As you too want to feel that there has to be a better world.
     
  25. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    Fair comment but knowledge/understanding isn't presumptuousness. I don't see you as a 'know-it-all' and always prefer to debate anything over which I don't agree or where assertions are shaky. You're good with me! :D

    Of this you can be cast-iron certain. No incarnate knows it all, not you, not me, not anyone else.... I, too, ask many questions by challenging folk to consider alternatives perspectives and approach. The subject we've been discussing isn't so much ambiguous as uncertain. We don't have many facts other than very simple and obvious ones. Perhaps someone knows a source we'd recognize as being authoritative on this particular subject and if they did I'd consider any information to see if it appealed to my reason. Otherwise I, we, must speculate on what might be.

    I'm less interested in what others think than what they know or reasonably believe to be the case. ;)

    Concerning myself I have to tell you that your senses aren't accurate. :eek: I don't (quote) "want to feel.." there has to be a better world. I'm totally persuaded that the world from which we came, the same one to which we'll return, is a world very different than the one in which we're living. A world immeasurably 'better than' this one although this one is probably mostly right for what was intended, its raison d'ĂȘtre.

    Furthermore I certainly haven't lost many from this world, this time round at least.... Like many/most I've lost family members and a few friends. But I did lose our son and that loss led me to become who I now am, doing what I now do.

    At nearly 70 I'm in my last quarter with three decades to go at very best/worst. Then I'll learn/regain/remember what I don't know now. Can't be bad, eh?
     
  26. georgek

    georgek Member

    What I really meant, is that just like myself, we feel an injustice that allows us to study our physical world and say:- "This is not right" You ADMIT that the 'other' world is a better world. You are a much learned man as I know that the answers that you give are of certainty. The phrase that I used "want to feel" is rather ambiguous as I should have rephrased it better.

    We both want to feel it, because we have earned it, and as you say....it does not matter what others think. When we want to 'feel' something we are proud in the way that we think. I share your feelings on the other world.

    Hold on mac....

    You have lost YOUR SON and family members and you do not see this as many? How many parents lose their children? That is not to mention your friends which we can say we have all lost some. I am 65 and I have only lost my father and grandma.(those I knew)
    Just curious....what work did you use to do? Forgive my asking.

    George
     
  27. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    That's not really an issue related to what was earlier under discussion, that of when the animating spirit embeds in a child....

    It's not something I've ever denied but neither was it an admission. It's hardly arcane knowledge that life in the etheric is very different from life in the physical with none of the hardships we experience here. But it's a situation of 'horses-for-courses. This world was created for a specific purpose and - presumably - is meeting its design parameters. The etheric world is mostly devoid of the experiences we have here, the ones (we are taught) enhance our rate of spiritual progress.


    I don't see myself that way but I do have conviction about the issues I understand. Others are more knowledgeable about their own specialities.

    not exactly... I don't feel I've earned anything. I do feel I'm privileged to have found out about 'stuff ' rather than having remained the ignoramus I was. I'm privileged because others still seek what I've found and some will have put much effort into that venture without success. But it does matter to me what others think because I like to help where I can and hope they feel able to approach me.

    not exactly.... I'm not proud of the way I think. I am comfortable I've done my best to think 'stuff' through as thoroughly as I'm able given my limited knowledge.

    How many is 'many'? Others will have lost many, many more than I yet comparatively few appear to have any understanding of life beyond this life.

    Who knows the number but you have only to watch BBC News reports on events in Syria, for example, to see how many parents have lost all their children and often their relatives. I feel for all those poor souls whose suffering is so much deeper.


    Friends and family die. It's the natural way albeit one that brings us spiritually and physically low. Some of us will lose more family and friends than others. Few will never experience bereavement.

    My work? That's a long time ago and doesn't define who I am... ;)
     
  28. georgek

    georgek Member

    The reason I asked, was to try and understand more about your experiences with death.
    I find it difficult to understand why you associate yourself with Syria?
    Of course there are more atrocities in the outside world. There are more people starving in Africa and Syria is a war worn country.

    Building a situation as if you are pawn in game with the whole big world to deal with, is hardly going to be fair on yourself.

    Nor having to 'bleed' for the millions of unfortunates out there.

    Sometimes we have to be selfish as this too is a natural plan for survival.
    I just like to know the person/people that I am dealing with and to understand the individual as if THEY are the important ones and not the ones who I am hardly going to meet and understand.

    Perhaps the moment the soul enters the body is at the point of learning?
    That too I wish to learn and only through learning are we able to understand

    Just my view
    :)
     
  29. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    If I'd associated myself with Syria then I'd follow your difficulty in understanding why but I didn't. You asked a question and I responded directly. Take another look.

    I didn't speak about atrocities - you've just introduced an additional aspect which wasn't in the original discussion. I spoke only about parents losing children and also relatives - take another look.

    If I had you might have been right. But you're off the subject we were discussing. None of what you're referring to above played any part in my earlier response. (assuming your ideas were directed towards myself - if not please ignore what I've said.)

    You are, of course, perfectly entitled to approach matters in whatever way you see fit and to believe whatever takes your fancy.
     
  30. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    Apparently the answer to the question of when the soul enters the body is highly personal and variable, but it seems that most bodies have a personality assigned even before conception that attaches at conception or soon thereafter. Typically we will come and go as the fetus develops, and in general most of us seem to spend a lot of time in the fetus by the last trimester, but - again - this seems to be highly variable.
     

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