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What will happen to my mom when she passes over?

Discussion in 'General Afterlife Discussions' started by Amore, May 1, 2017.

  1. Amore

    Amore Member

    Ever since I learned that we go on after we 'die', this question (title) has repeatedly crossed my mind.

    My mom is an atheist and a materialist. She only believes in things she can see/hear with her bodily senses, everything else is 'nonsense' and the product of charlatans or an overactive imagination. She scoffs at people who have experienced an NDE or OBE. She is 100% convinced in her mind, that there's absolutely nothing after we leave our body, that we simply cease to exist. She thinks I'm silly and naive for believing differently.

    I have at times tried to talk a little bit about this topic with her but I know that arguing is futile, so I usually stop talking soon. I can not reach her.

    So, I wonder what will she experience once she leaves her body? I have read that people who are so closed to the idea of an afterlife right after passing experience a 'nothingness', a darkness, emptiness, a long sleep, etc. They basically experience what they believe in: nothing.

    But what happens next to them? Will my mom eventually change her believe and move on, will she eventually come to the realization that she does in fact still exist even though she left her body, will she meet others and have a life review, and start understanding?

    Will she suffer while being alone in this empty void? How long does that last?

    I would appreciate if someone has more details about what souls go through who basically vehemently deny that they are souls.

    (If there's already a good thread about this, please point me to it? TY!)
     
    Widdershins3 likes this.
  2. doniker

    doniker Member

    I have struggled with wondering if their is an afterlife all of my life. I have recently gotten sober after 27 years of alcohol abuse and I have become more spiritual. I do believe is God and an afterlife - I am 99% sure that it exists.

    But I have that 1% doubt and that troubles me. I am sure your mother is not 100% sure that their is no afterlife and even if she is God may understand and still save her soul.

    My wife and I have a 21 year old daughter that we never got baptized and I worry about her being stuck in purgatory. But it is now up to her as an adult to join the Catholic faith if she so desires.

    Only your mother can save herself - all you can do is set an example.
     
  3. Amore

    Amore Member

    Hi doniker, thank you for replying. And congrats for beating your addiction! It's not an easy thing to do. Well done!

    As for my mom, yes I know it's up to her what happens to her, and I'm not trying to feed her my beliefs. But I do wonder what will happen after she passes. I just hope she doesn't get stuck or something. She's a very stubborn person!

    My uncle (her brother) was the same as her. He used to mock me a lot for my spiritual interests. When he passed last year I had a positive feeling for him though. So it looks to me he overcame his anti-afterlife stance at some point in time and is happy now. :)
     
  4. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    This is a difficult question to answer because I haven't found much good evidence on it. I've come to believe that the key to escaping any negative post-death effects is simply to be open-minded, without any expectations; so if you can steer her in that direction you will be doing her a great service.

    Because there is evidence that people who are dogmatically convinced about a specific kind of post-death reality will indeed end up in the illusions that their minds have created for them. The most common of these "hollow heavens" (that's Bob Monroe's term) are clouds (with or without St. Peter's Gates) or a religion-based illusion, perhaps a throne room, or (very commonly, apparently) a village with a steepled church where they have a lot of apple-pie socials and bean suppers. These places are boring, and loved ones work at rescuing those who put themselves there, so it seems that people generally don't stay long. But I have read a couple of instances of people who were dogmatically insistent that nothing exists after death, and they don't seem to be very promising. The one that I remember most vividly is a man who had been such an adamant atheist that he refused even to notice his loved ones around him; they simply didn't exist for him. So he wandered in a whitish nothing, alone despite his loved ones trying to get his attention, and apparently this went on for awhile. so please try to help your mother to at least stay loose about it all!
     
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  5. Amore

    Amore Member

    Thank you Roberta! This actually helps a lot. Especially the sentence I bolded. Rather than telling her about what I believe and read etc, I will try to nudge her towards a 'wait and see' approach'. She's 81, so she talks about that it might be her time soon more often now. In spite of our different outlooks on life I love her dearly and I hope that she won't suffer a confusing or even scary scenario. Thank you!
     
  6. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    We've had discussions before about thought creating one's personal 'reality' in the world unseen.

    It makes sense to me that a belief held strongly in incarnate life (or religious conditioning or brainwashing) might see an individual searching for, or creating, an environment she felt certain she'd experience after death. Given the apparent malleability of the material of the etheric world it's surely certain that others will have created their own versions of heaven, perhaps one based on what was promised by their religion. And if you want your own version of Heaven then maybe you can create it by dint of your strong imagination?

    Alternatively perhaps someone totally convinced that there is nothing after death might just be able to effectively create just that personal situation. It sounds bizarre but is it possible?

    I hope Amore's mother will not end up in that situation, just as I hope about my own.
     
    Amore likes this.
  7. Amore

    Amore Member

    Actually, thinking about what doniker said above, he might be right. I remember some years ago I had to go to the hospital for major surgery. The date of the surgery happened to be the birthday of my late grandmother (my mom's mother). I was quite anxious and, possibly to help me relax, my mom said, "oh it's granny's birthday, I'm sure she'll be watching over you." So maybe there's a small part in her that is open for the possibility of an afterlife.
     
    Corey likes this.
  8. Widdershins3

    Widdershins3 Active Member

    I'm married to a completely closed-minded rationalist who belittled me for years for my spiritual beliefs, so I think on this subject often. Glad you brought it up, Amore. He's dialed back the ridicule since I began to call him on it as abusive behavior a while back and the therapist I made him see agreed. So now he's just silent if I mention it around him, though it takes a pretty stunning paranormal experience for me to open up about it to him at all.

    His mother (who strongly believed in survival) died last year and it hurts my heart to see him grieve with no hope that she's survived, but his "skepticism" is knee-jerk and not amenable to discussion. Ditto for his sisters, the card-carrying-intellectual one and the lawyer. I've been treated with quite a bit of patronizing condescension by all three of them--and compared in a very negative way to their mother--and it's hard not to be upset by that. But I read voraciously on the subject and, after seeing the ghost of a little girl on a bus in 2012, nothing on earth could convince me that they're right and I'm wrong.

    From what I've read, some materialists do go through a period of "floating in the void" but when they finally are rescued and eventually find a medium through whom they can communicate with their loved ones left behind, not one of them said it was unpleasant. They reported being at peace and as though they hadn't a care in the world. That's what I hope will happen with my husband and sisters-in-law.
     
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  9. enby

    enby New Member

    hi, long time lurker, new poster here-- i just wanted to ask/wonder about the materialists in ppl's lives and how far it rly goes for them. like is it rly only a more surface level thing? they only focus on and have thought about there being no afterlife/no soul?

    but what do they think of things like their emotions and love and relationships?

    i also am wondering widdershins of your relationship with your partner--only if you want to share-- and what he thinks his love/emotions are for you? and also his love/grief for his mother?

    if ppl think there's no afterlife, and pair that up with no soul, do they also accept materialistic science's views on love and emotions in general?

    obviosuly however many of them do. i've seen them, read their views, they're very upsetting and disturbing(i've been thrown into bad periods/spirals- like today- becuz of it.)...but i feel like there's some/many ppl who only think of the general idea of conciousness and their disbelief/or unsurety in survival and that's it.

    and i don't know, to me, ..for example i saw some guy's post somewhere else where he was in turmoil over the idea of the family he loves dying and not existing. and i wonder when i see ppl like him who either don't believe or are unsure, what do they think is their love and general emotions?

    their love for whoever, it's part of the soul--and i guess it makes sense if they believe in the soul but not the afterlife for some reason..but otherwise if they're not hardcore materialists and embrace materialistic science's view of emotions and consciousness..i don't know, it doesn't make sense
     
  10. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    There are a number of questions in your posting but perhaps you could focus on just one or two issues to make answering easier? I'm always up for a challenge but I confess I'm confused about what you're asking.
     
  11. Widdershins3

    Widdershins3 Active Member

    enby, I can only speak from my own experience, but I think some materialists who are strongly in denial about life after death are trying to be "the smartest guy in the room" as one of them put it to me after he recovered from his denial. He said his self-esteem was more fragile than he'd realized and he was determined to bond with and be identified as one of the intelligentsia who were science-based in their thinking. He saw people like us as being gullible True Believers and sneered at us every chance he got.

    He recovered from his snotty world view and attitude in late middle age, but most I've known don't. My husband has an older sister he idolizes who is one of the nastiest card-carrying intellectuals I've ever met and she laughs out loud at any mention of survival or even of the existence of the soul.

    They seem to base their ethics on purely worldly concerns and some, my husband included, are very focused on social justice and making the world a better place. To them, there's no chance of surviving death, so they don't have the long view we have of endless life and, in my case, a very long succession of lifetimes spent learning lessons and interacting again and again with members of our soul group. Still, most of the ones I know try to lead good, productive lives just on principle.
     
  12. Widdershins3

    Widdershins3 Active Member

    And I just realized that I didn't answer what you asked about what happens to them after death. From the hundreds of books on life after death that I've read, my best guess is that a well-intentioned materialist who lives a good life and is kind will do what all souls do and be attracted to souls of similar vibration. And the nasty ones will possibly be in for a period of adjustment, followed by rehabilitation after their life review, which will most likely be brutal. They'll need a lot of support and healing, but almost all mediums say the spirits have assured them that everyone who wants that, gets it. Some of my favorite transcripts of readings are of people who spend their lives snickering at those of us who have reason to believe (or to know) that life continues, then die and get a huge shock. I chuckle right through them:D
     
  13. enby

    enby New Member

    thanks for your response. but i think i didn't get my main general question across as mac expressed.

    my point is what do these materialists think of emotions. i know their views on the afterlife and the general idea of conciousness. but do they go so far as embracing materlialistic science's view of emotions and love.

    i know hardcore materialists embrace the idea of love and other emotions as chemicals, but i'm curious what seemingly more casual materialists think of this.

    i also specifically wondered widdershins, your husband's view on his love toward you, and his love/grief towards his passed mother. is he someone who thinks his love and grief and other emotions are chemicals.

    i hope this is clearer :)
     
  14. Widdershins3

    Widdershins3 Active Member

    I think he probably would put emotions down to brain chemistry, though he's clear on life's vicissitudes causing real grief and real joy. He's never said that, but he really toes the materialist party line if pressed. That doesn't make the emotions less real--materialists have never impressed me as being less emotional. They love, hate, yearn and even feel awe--usually at something beautiful in Nature. Many astronomers become deeply emotional over the incredible beauty of the night sky and nature activists I know can be reduced to tears at the sight of a beautiful vista. The scientists aren't at all cold or repressed either. Some that I know well have quite complicated love lives and adore their partners, all without any belief in a deity or in the existence of a soul.

    I get the feeling that you see a disconnect between materialism/materialists and emotion and I confess I don't fully understand it. I've never observed it, though most of our mutual friends are techies and scientists. The fact that their feelings might be described at their basis as chemical in no way makes the feelings less real or makes the people less emotional.

    Does that address your question?
     
  15. jimrich

    jimrich Active Member

  16. enby

    enby New Member

    oh i wasn't implying them believing their emotions are chemicals makes them less real or anything, or that they're less emotional.

    i just wonder if every materialist totally falls in line with all materialism and accepts it and is comfortable with it. and so i asked about the materialists in ppl's lives and their thoughts on emotions.

    and yes you addressed my question concerning your husband.

    oh i def agree with you jimrich, this is def not okay and i hope i wasn't coming off as cosigning it as love or anything. i know ppl can love someone but still be abusive tho in whatever way, so it's obvs tainted. you may love someone and respect them in some ways, but when they dare do sumthing like float some innocent ideas/experiences and stuff about the afterlife/etc that are pretty unthreatening and hopeful and whatever, where do you get off ridiculing them and being mean about it

    same with you i'd hit the road too, or rather they would :cool:
     
  17. Widdershins3

    Widdershins3 Active Member

    Just found this thread again--sorry I didn't post in reply to you, but I somehow missed the notifications of your posts.

    Of course abuse is bad. Why any woman stays in an occasionally abusive marriage usually boils down to a few basic reasons and my main one is that my husband is much more complex than my posts above might make him seem. He's capable of being loving and fun and is that way most of the time, but has damage from his really messed up family of origin. It's not black and white or simple by any means...few long-term marriages are. I'm having "one of those lifetimes" that damaged my self-esteem pretty severely from early childhood on, but I've had excellent therapy and now establish boundaries and am able to defend them. I'm also 70 years old and have an atrocious track record when it comes to picking husbands. My decision to persevere in this marriage, imperfect as it is, is one arrived at after a lot of therapy, prayer, thought and life experience. Thank God, I'm not trauma-bonded (like many abused wives) and have been able to make my decision clear-headedly and taking into account my own spiritual beliefs. The marriage could still go south and if it does, I'll be sorry, but I don't think I'll regret my decision to work on it.

    BTW, I see people judge women who choose to remain in difficult relationships all the time, online and off. They're entitled to their opinion, but I've seen already emotionally battered women further victimized by the expression of that opinion, so please dial it back a bit in future. Please, please remember that you have no deep understanding of the dynamics of the relationship in question or of the woman's financial status or support system (or lack thereof). I've known women who stayed in abusive situations to be able to keep their children and even, occasionally, to be able to keep their beloved pets. I live in one of the most expensive places in the US. If I left today, I would be forced to move far away immediately to a more affordable area and would lose all my friends (my support network), my Spiritualist church congregation, my lovely old hillside Storybook house, my large garden and shed and one of my cats. I'd lose my comfortable lifestyle and financial security and that's hard to face at my age, after having grown up poor and lived in poverty during the decade that my son was sick. It's not simple or clear-cut. It's Life and Life tends to be messy and complex.
     
  18. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    I'm sure many comments are well-meant but they can become off-topic when they're in the wrong thread and the wrong forum.

    Members want to be supportive of other members' life problems but few will know enough about most other individuals' lives or have the necessary counselling skills to help them. Even if they do know, and even if they do have such skills, a public forum setting probably isn't the best place to be discussing personal issues.
     
  19. Widdershins3

    Widdershins3 Active Member

    Right now, I'm looking on via email as my husband's atheistic family handles the impending death of one of its members and it's reinforcing my belief, mentioned above, that being materialistic has no effect on their ability to feel deep emotion. This guy (sister-in-law's hubby) is loved and respected and will be sorely missed by everyone who knew him. He's been living with stage 4 liver cancer for over 2 years and the chemo that's kept him going and allowed him to function well and enjoy his wife, 3 sons and grandsons is now failing. I'm unable to fly cross-country to see him before he goes, so I'm struggling to write a letter to him to tell him how much I've enjoyed knowing him for over 30 years.

    And it's difficult. When I met him, he did believe in an afterlife, due to having had (as a young man) an amazing sighting of a ghost. It made it into one of Suzy Smith's books, in fact: he was in the pool area of a family home in Florida and saw a young girl standing alone and wearing antique clothing. When she vanished, he realized she'd been a spirit, although she'd been solid and real-looking. But over the years he was, I think, so influenced by the family's atheistic mindsets that even that stunning experience no longer was accepted by him as being real.

    I did that too--had a lifetime of paranormal experiences that I ended up somehow putting aside to try to win the approval of my husband and his family. I managed to sustain my agnosticism for almost 10 years before my own sighting of the spirit of a little girl on a bus shattered it. I want to write about that to my dying brother-in-law, but I remember his amusement when I brought it up right after it happened. And I have no wish or need to try to make him admit to belief in an afterlife at this point. I'm pretty sure he's going to have undeniable personal proof of survival within the next week. But I do marvel at the ability of the human mind to cherry-pick their personal history and to ignore evidence, if they believe doing so will allow them to be more respected by the people they admire.
     
  20. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    Yes it's tough when the time eventually comes. Knowing exactly what to say would be wonderful but just hearing from you may be all he needs.

    Perhaps it's because what he experienced had no personal significance and family life influenced him the way it did - as it can for many others I suspect. With no context to even such a dramatic sighting as he experienced why would one take notice? When isolated events are seen to have linkage it can be a revelation, even when they're years apart, but sometimes there's no (recognised) linkage.

    People never fail to amaze with what they do and what they don't do. Who knows if it's intransigence or if it's part of their so-called life plan?
     

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