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  2. Afterlife Forums is an online, interactive community designed to give seekers direct access to prominent researchers, to afterlife literature, and to one another in order to foster both spiritual growth and public interest in life after death.

What makes you believe there is an afterlife?

Discussion in 'Afterlife Evidence' started by Wanttobelieve, Aug 19, 2018.

  1. Wanttobelieve

    Wanttobelieve New Member

    Hello, I just signed in. I´m 43 years old, I live in Vienna. (And I usually speak German, please forgive me my English mistakes.)

    I lost my Dad 18 month ago, my grandmother (Dad´s mother, age 102) 2 and a half years ago. I wish very much I could believe that both somehow still exist. I cannot stop looking for my Dad, hoping I somehow will find him.

    Problem is, I´m a sceptical person.

    I was brought up with the belief that humans have a "soul". I lost this belief when my Dad died.

    - I have seen people and animals die, but have never witnessed a deathbed phenomenon.
    - Whenever I get to know a person who has been resuscitated I ask him or her: "Did you experience something?" Answer was always: "No. I think when you are dead, then you are dead."
    - I did not get any "signs" I could believe in. The doctor called in the middle of the night and told me my Dad had just died. (It was cancer.) Clocks did not stop. Both dogs were snoring in my bed. I did not see any white butterflies other than those that come from caterpillars in the cabbages. I did not hear voices or receive strange messages. No rainbows. No feathers. I did not hear Dad´s favourite songs.
    - I think I smelled him a few time, but I am afraid this is just remembrance. When I brought up a baby crow this year, I could suddenly smell my tame blackcap. That blackcap died 18 years ago.

    I watched various psychic performances on Youtube. Also, I visited a "divine service". These people do NOT talk to deceased persons. They use mentalist tricks, cold reading and such. Most aren´t even very good. My Dad was a magician and I have seen really good mentalists at magical congresses. Dad explained the tricks to me. He also showed me how to "influence" a pendulum, how to know which card will be drawn from a deck... Such things.

    I never believed in any god.
    I´ve given pseudomedicine a number of chances (mostly because I did not want to argue with doctors who obviously believed in supernatural healings.) Acupuncture did not have any visible effect on me or my pets. Homeopathy never worked because I´m a non-believer. I´m collecting minerals and I know stones do not have any influence on my health, not unless they are called "uranium dioxide". I refuse to spend any more money on pseudomedicine and, of course, I very much doubt there is a "qi" or an astral body.

    I wish I could believe that my Dad is in "heaven" and that some day we will meet again. But I can´t. I miss him, I feel alone. I dread the day when Dads old dog (Labrador, 15 years) will die.

    What is it that makes you believe in an afterlife? Please tell me, I really want to know.
     
  2. Teri

    Teri New Member

    Hell
    Hello - I understand what you’re saying. I’ve read a lot of books in the afterlife and it wasn’t until I met with a medium that I completely believe. My mom passed two years ago also from cancer, it was devestating as it was unexpected. I’m still having a problem coping with her loss feeling empty and just needing my mom. I went to a medium because I was desperate to “talk” to my mother. This medium knew nothing about me nor had ever met me. My mom came thru and “talked” about things only her and I would know... the divorce of my brother, a pair of shoes I never liked, a broken figurine in the wall unit. I’ve found pennies in my winter boots, white feathers on my car windshield - in fact my brother saw a flash of white light in their kitchen. Family members have had visitation dreams and describe in detail their meeting with Mom. I’m still waiting for my visit... it does go against my catholic upbringing but I do believe there’s more to life than just dying and it’s all over. Signs are there you have to be open to seeing little details, sometimes you miss them. I do believe my mom is with me everyday, I talk to her as if we’re having one of our conversations. I do find comfort knowing that. I hope you will find comfort in my reply. :)
     
    Luizcarlos likes this.
  3. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    welcome to ALF - afterlife forums :)

    I don't see being sceptical as a problem. ;) It's natural - of course - to miss our loved ones and to want to find them again.



    It's a shame you've lost that belief but beliefs can be very shaky things at times. I'd guess that inside you never accepted that idea so it wasn't really a part of you. Death can test our resolve but those who understand and accept our survival beyond death often cope better when faced by it.

    me neither!

    That person, of course, didn't die.;) But some who have had experiences that injured their bodies severely and recovered have told different stories and those stories have affected their outlook greatly and positively. Near-death experience is not a major part of ALF's main forums or threads but we have had members who did experience life-altering events.

    me similarly - Our baby son dies almost in my arms and our lives changed forever that instant. But just like in your world the clocks didn't stop, there were no magical signs and when we arrived home empty-handed, my wife without the baby she had carried for 9 months, this world was turning just as it had before we'd left home 18 hours earlier.

    I wasn't with you so I can't comment on what you saw but that's not the case with mediums. (not psychics, sensitives or showmen)

    Belief or lack of belief won't change anything.

    Many such techniques are nonsense and it sounds like you've not been impressed by anything you've found. Perhaps time to change tack?

    I don't believe in an afterlife. I'm totally confident that one exists and - for that matter - so does a 'forelife'. But my experiences would probably not persuade for you or make you a 'believer' and that's just fine. My guess is that others' experiences won't either and for you to feel confident, for you to feel persuaded about the things members here on ALF or elsewhere speak about, you may have to do some personal research. How do you feel about that?
     
  4. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    Teri's experience has helped her and my next suggestion would be that you visit an evidential medium yourself. When I say a 'medium' I don't mean a psychic, sensitive or channeler. If you do go down that route, ask the practitioner exactly what (s)he will try to do. It's not a ' psychic reading' that you should be looking for so if there's any emphasis on telling you about life or the future or asking for a question that will be answered I suggest you look elsewhere.

    A medium should ask you NOTHING about yourself or who you are hoping to hear from etc. You should not tell her/him any details about yourself - a medium doesn't need anything. In response to a medium's questions your answers should be yes, no, I'm not sure or I don't know for example and you should not volunteer information.
     
  5. Kurt

    Kurt Active Member

    What made me believe in it is a long story with basic points to it.

    I was porn into a household of pure evil.

    I was put into a hyper religous household that concluded I was the devil..... Their behavior left me highly skeptical of all religion.

    I went somewhere else with a chick who wanted to screw with my emotions.. she did convince me to embrace my athiest tendencies.

    That was not truly me though. I left and embraced my anti religious tendencies.

    I met some satanists and their freewheeling lifestyle and antics rubbed off on me. I was finally loved.

    I fell in love with a Christian woman who brought me into the undecided sector.

    I came here, because all religion is about is lifestyle and death and I had matured considerably and finally found a good lifestyle (think into the wild) now all there was was the afterlife

    I came here

    I was amazed that so many others had the same beliefs I did. I took the silver birch rule to heart and have never left.
     
  6. Wanttobelieve

    Wanttobelieve New Member

    Thank you, Teri, I hope your mum is with you!

    I´m from a Roman Catholic background, but I never believed in God (or Gods. Or Godesses.)

    Your guess is not correct. I used to believe in "souls" as did every human since the Stone Age. This has nothing to do with a certain religion or the belief in a deity. Humans cannot easily accept that they will cease to exist some day. But I noticed that older people rarely believe in life after death.
    My Dad and Grandma did not believe in life after death. Both were afraid to die.

    There is no proof. I accept facts, not beliefs. Buddhists do not believe there is no permanent, immortal self or soul. Australian Aborigens believe that you have more than one soul and that souls can die.

    I agree. If this universe was created by an alien being, this being must be VERY strange and very likely is not inerested in me, my habits or beliefs.

    As I said, I won´t buy such nonsense anymore.

    Mac, any good mentalist will do just that and will be able to tell you the colour of your underpants and the number of your bank account! This is an art! But it is NOT supernatural and it does NOT proof an afterlife.

    We do not have many mediums here and those I saw - presumably very good ones - all used mentalist techniques. I saw some stage mentalists who were much better, almost unbelievably good in "reading your mind" or "talking to the spirits", but they did not claim to have any unusual powers.

    I wish I could belive in mediums, but if they really had such abilities, they could easily win the prizes for evidence of the paranormal.

    @Signs: If a feather falls down beside me, there is either a moulting bird on the roof or a falcon has killed a dove. If I found a cigar end or a playing card on our doorstep, THAT would be a sign. But this will not happen.
     
  7. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    Nothing actually proves there's a life after death but those prepared to look may find what others have found and be moved to see things differently. Some will find personal evidence whereas others will find impersonal, empirical evidence. We each have the choice to either seek and accept or seek and reject.

    Confusingly you've quoted a piece in which I describe what a medium should be able to do and then liken it to a 'mentalist' whatever that means to you. If the practitioners you call mediums are what you also refer to as 'mentalists' then I suspect you've visited frauds or psychics. It's an unfortunate situation you don't have many practitioners in Vienna but you're being unfair to dismiss all those you haven't visited who live elsewhere. It is, of course, your prerogative.

    I tried to offer you a way to change tack. Sadly you seem not to be interested so I'll leave things at that. Good luck with your search for belief.
     
    Kurt likes this.
  8. Kurt

    Kurt Active Member

    If you must, take a Kierkegaardian approach to death. In your case that might help.
     
  9. Bob

    Bob New Member

    Well , I met a woman on Dec. 12, 2003 and she told me she was married and her husband died exactly 3 months before I met her. He had cancer and she told me she and her daughters saw him have a deathbed vision in a hospice room the day he died. He said he saw Moses and the angel Gabriel and he said " I see them" and " Oh I'm getting a new name?" He had his eyes opened and he was not under the influence of pain killing medications. He knew who he was and he knew his wife and daughters were in the room. I fell in love with her and I believe God guided me to meet her so that I would believe in eternal life more. Before I met her I was focusing on strictly the scientific view of materialism and not spiritualism . Some interesting coinsidences I've discovered.. My grandfather was 33 when my dad was born.. My dad was 33 when I was born... Jesus Christ was crucified at age 33...
     
    Kurt likes this.
  10. Kurt

    Kurt Active Member

    So... I understand everything, but may you please elaborate on meaning of the Christ part please?

    Are you tying it in to inherent holiness?
     
  11. Bob

    Bob New Member

    Ok, I believe that Jesus Christ actually existed on Earth as a great moral teacher. I am however not convinced that he is God. In the Bible he even says that he is not God. But also, in contradiction he says that he is one with God. I do believe he was crucified around 33 AD and my guess is that he thought he was God and I believe he went to the afterlife. My father died of cancer and not to long after he died, I had 2 very vivid dreams of him. I delved in a few books about the afterlife and some say that vivid dreams of loved ones who have died is a sign coming from the spirit world. My mother also said to me that she had some vivid visions of him as if he was in her presence. I don't believe a human, as he/she is living on Earth , must think only on Jesus Christ as a man 24/7 to get eternal life but that the human is free to believe whatever he/she wants to. I believe all will get eternal life no matter what you believe in. All, I believe, will learn holiness in the spirit world. Please pay attention to what you think are just coincidences.. like getting that parking space close to a building, hearing that song on the radio when you were just thinking about it yesterday.. I believe some of them are truly signs coming from the spirit world! Research on deathbed visions shows that 2 different religious cultures (Hindu, Christianity) do in fact have similar features appearing in the visions (comfort, joy, acceptance, beauty) leading to the belief that you can get to heaven no matter what you believe in. No one religion on Earth is the ultimate truth.
     
  12. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    Religions may be somewhat short of knowledge about the actuality of life, of death and about what comes next. Some may give you pointers whereas other may confuse and confound you. Here on ALF, though, we don't compare and contrast religions. ;)

    I have no idea what the (quote) "ultimate truth" might be. The best we're ever likely to find are elements that in themselves are true and are part of 'the truth' meaning they're parts of the overall picture.

    The various aspects in the latter part of your response, those you've encouraged member Kurt to heed, are matters we've discussed in other threads here on ALF and they are well known to regulars even if they're not accepted by all of them. :)
     
  13. Kurt

    Kurt Active Member

    I already take those signs seriously... As Mac stated they are well known to members.

    I actually did before I even joined. I believe I developed the sense around 2014...

    As far as ultimate truths, I believe in Universal Truths. Knowledge is a diamond with many facets and each is a truth.

    I do think everyone goes to heaven.

    WHEN Jesus died, AD began. At least that's the classical perspective.

    Historically it is believed that the historical Jesus died either 3 AD or 3 BC.
     
  14. Kurt

    Kurt Active Member

    I am with Mac on this. We share the same opinions. Certain things should not be discussed here.
     
  15. pandora97

    pandora97 Active Member

    :confused:
     
  16. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    Kurt may mean that the exact date of birth is uncertain and it may be a few years either side of the 'official' date.
     
    Kurt likes this.
  17. Kurt

    Kurt Active Member

    'Historical Jesus' is a academic term that is used by secular historians in relation to Jesus. What everyone agrees on is that he existed. There is irrefutable evidence to prove that.

    What is not agreed on is whether or not he was divine.

    The timestamps BC & AD are used as markers for his death.

    AD = After Death

    BC = Before Death

    The secular equivalents are

    BCE = Before Common Era

    and

    CE = Common Era.

    It is believed that when he died, the common era began. I used secular language because ALF is not a religious site.
     
  18. Kurt

    Kurt Active Member

    Exactly!!!

    The reason why I posted that was because it was stated he died in AD 33.
     
  19. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    a.d. can also mean 'anno domini'.
     
    Kurt likes this.
  20. Kurt

    Kurt Active Member

    Doesn't that translate to in the year of our Lord?
     
  21. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    yes - It's what we old farts were taught as kids and, of course, is Latin.
     
    Kurt likes this.
  22. Kurt

    Kurt Active Member

    Oh no! My Generation Zombie (I'm actually Millenial-Gen Z, which is great since I can choose the winning side in any generational argument) ears shriveling up and falling off at the use of Latin!!

    Vade Retro Satana! Edumacation!!

    (Breaks out in another brick in the wall by Pink Floyd)

    :D
     
  23. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    I learned Latin along with German and French - haven't used any of the latter two for real and unless you're in the church or a teacher, the first doesn't often get used much by anyone.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2018
  24. Kurt

    Kurt Active Member

    That is impressive. I wonder why they no longer take education seriously.

    From the time you were in school to me, all of the classical teachings went away. From when I started school to now is also bad.

    At least in America, there is a lack of true literacy. Most people cannot spell because they rely on spell checkers to much. (I personally hate them because my lexicon is to big for my phone) And if you italicize any writing whatsoever, they think it is cursive which is no longer taught.

    All you need today is a mild drive and common sense. I saw a cursive chart when I was in 1st grade and taught myself. The teachers thought I was a genius (once I found out it was all put together in one line I had it down perfectly).

    Of course, most people over 30 can do these things but to find someone as educated as you are is a true task. I believe we are all lucky to have made your acquaintance.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2018
  25. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    It would be easy to believe it's only in the USA that standards are low. It's not necessarily so. Here in the UK schools are under huge pressures to deliver a very large curriculum to too many often-uninterested pupils with too few educators doing it.

    Add to all that an educational bureaucracy that ties the hands of teachers, principals, clerical and support staff alike. Standards can slip under these conditions although, thankfully, my school's didn't. But that's not always the situation. I changed from being a parent of our child in an elementary school to being the special needs educator there. I saw the pressure teachers were working under and have experienced things from both sides of the picture - parent and educator alike.

    It's a tough job being a teacher and it can be tough for children trying to learn, both categories working in classroom situations that are not always condusive to teaching and learning. There's no single, easy answer to the difficulties in education but bigger budgets, more staff and smaller class sizes would improve the teaching-and-learning environment.

    It wouldn't hurt either if children all had a mom and a dad who loved each other, loved their kids, loved being involved in their kids' education, had jobs that allowed them to spend enough time with their kids, had the desire to do that and had enough money to live comfortably, safely and healthily.....

    Is that too much to want? Perhaps it is. :( Statistics show how many non-nuclear families there now are and that situation shows no sign of improving. Kids are brought up in situations far from ideal and we expect them to do well in school when their home lives are chaotic. I don't know the answers but I do see why educational standards may be on a slippery downhill path that will be difficult to change.

    Time for mac to climb down from his soap box.....:rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2018
    Kurt, pandora97 and Monika like this.
  26. Kurt

    Kurt Active Member

    You are right about everything that you said. That is what happened here as well. It's sad.
     
  27. Ruby

    Ruby New Member

    Hello, my 22 year old son died of cancer a month after diagnosis in summer '16. Over a year later, to my shock, I heard his voice while I was busy and fully alert. I started surfing the net for information. It was surprising to find this spiritualist world which I'd never considered before, other than "woo, woo, ghosty" tales. A few months later in the middle of a storm he appeared bedside which terrified me (but of course was very thrilling). I thought it was my husband back early because of the snow and exclaimed along these lines, then realised that instead of the dark business suit, this was him, all colourful, as in life. He was six foot 5 inches and towered over me. No face, just a dark, solid-seeming shape. It moved, and the forward leg and hand was solid and the back leg and arm were transparent, as if keeping back a bit as it is, after all, your mother in bed!! All the creases in the jeans were there. In the morning, it struck me that both times; the voice and the vision, had happened after I had looked at a tribute page to my son on a business website of a couple of his friends. In fact, in the morning of the appearance after I closed down the page a beautiful perfume filled the air. I have tried it again, very nervously, with my husband present, but nothing happened. For months I loved telling people, and didn't mind getting "the look", but have decided to shut up about it now as people just think I'm nuts. Most websites on hallucinations tell you to go to the doctor, but I am pretty sure this is not what happened to me. I have never had a hallucination before, far less something so specific and not random imagery happening regularly which websites on the subject describe. Lots of people have this happen to them, but I wonder how many conclude that it was a real visit from another dimension ( I feel mad just writing this) or just that they somehow had a hallucination. Also, has anyone heard of this happening after looking at a website? A friend said it was because I was looking at photos after a period of time of not seeing any (other than ones in frames in our house) so I looked through an album to see if it had any affect, and nothing happened.
     
  28. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    Welcome to ALF. :)

    You'll find a lot of subjects discussed here that should give you an overall impression of what happens on this website. Your personal story is interesting but not unusual even though the subject of survival beyond death is something you probably haven't discussed much.

    May I encourage you to take a good look around at the various discussion forums to 'get a feel' for the place while you're waiting for responses?
     
  29. Ruby

    Ruby New Member

    Thank you. Yes, I have. As you say, these experiences are not uncommon. People must just dismiss them or else spiritualism would be more popular. I must say though that it's very interesting to see sciency people have them too. I kind of hang onto that.
     
  30. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    There are many reasons that folk may not respond to what they've experienced. We don't have many "sciency" people here although I had a career in science and am also a Modern Spiritualist of well over 30 years. I consider myself analytical enough to have thoroughly thought through what I've researched, learned and experienced so that may encourage you a little.

    We have many members who have had personal experiences that may be of interest to you.
     

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