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What is death?

Discussion in 'General Afterlife Discussions' started by Jaytee, Dec 7, 2018 at 11:15 AM.

  1. Jaytee

    Jaytee New Member

    Hi all new to this forum. Always been interested in after life, the meaning of life, and where we come from topics etc.

    When asked what is death, or should we fear death my answer is always simple.

    every single person on the planet has experienced death, Death is ceasing to be in the human body you currently occupy. Before birth non of us existed in this body we currently live in. Therefore we have all been to the place called death.
    We have no memory of that time, but I believe for the millions of years before I became of this body and planet I wasn't just nothing. So therefore after my time in this body ends I will return to that which I was before.

    We have already been dead before our parents gave us life.
    Bill Z likes this.
  2. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    welcome to ALF :)

    quote: "We have already been dead before our parents gave us life."

    We have already lived elsewhere before we incarnated on this last (or the first) occasion. Parents don't give us life - they simply provide an opportunity for us to live here in this world - again or for the first time. ;)
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018 at 3:14 PM
    kim marine likes this.
  3. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    Unlikely unless you're also claiming that nobody is here for their first time ever - how could you know that was the case?
  4. bluebird

    bluebird Well-Known Member

    I've seen this argument made before. In my opinion, not existing before this life on Earth, or existing in spirit in a before life/afterlife, is not the same as death. Similar, perhaps, in some ways, but not the same.
  5. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    It's certainly not the same because physical death is entirely a transient state. It's simply what happens when we pass from this physical dimension of existence to an 'etheric' one.

    It's been said by discarnate teachers that even the transition between 'levels' is a kind of death because it's an irreversible change. When we move from one 'level' of spiritual existence to the following one there's no going back other than transiently if there's a particular reason for that to happen.
  6. Convolution

    Convolution Active Member

    I've read before that the idea of 'levels' in the afterlife is non existent, and we are all on the same level. How did you come to the conclusion that these transitions indeed exist? Was it that you happened to find it described in a number of descriptions you read about resonated to your liking, or did you find some other means of validation?
  7. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    I don't see them as discrete levels at all but it's a commonly-used idea that indicates the overall spiritual status of the individuals found there. I disagree with the notion we're all at the same level or existing on the same level - that's contrary to what's taught and contrary to my understanding.

    A number of aspects are usually involved when anything appeals to my reason, the notion of 'spiritual levels' being just such one such example.
  8. Convolution

    Convolution Active Member

    Ok, let me see if I understand. So you believe 'levels' is just a word we use to represent the infinite spectrum of personal spiritual advancement we are ever so gradually acquiring, and that doing so is a one way street. Once learned, a lesson cannot be unlearned. But we can see and communicate with all, not just on the same level, as it is not our placement in a spiritual space of some kind that changes, but our understanding that shifts.
    Is that correct?
  9. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    no - Agreed just up to the highlighted idea.....
  10. Convolution

    Convolution Active Member

    Ok, got it. Why do you think those which are of a different level cannot communicate? Is it that if you were of a different level, you may not see nor experience those either with lower or higher growth? If that is the case, then is there a threshold where one crosses over (like an actual level, I guess)? Who determines the "thickness" of these bands of levels, or their count? Is there a limitless number of them?

    I've read a few different things on this subject. I'm interested in what you have accepted.
  11. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    Why do I think.... etc. I understand / accept / feel resonance with the explanation given by guides and teachers that our 'spiritual frequency' needs to be close to that of others for us to communicate effectively - kinda like impedance matching for maximum signal transfer. Where's there's a gross mismatch then the signal - communication between discarnates of greatly differing levels of spiritual advancement - can't take place effectively - too much noise. It's a crude analogy! But we're taught also that spiritually-advanced souls are able to impress their thoughts on those of a 'lower' level of spiritual advancement, sometimes but not necessarily needing an intermediary, kinda like a medium in effect - another crude analogy!

    I've been to one of those threshold / boundaries and for me it felt like a dark, gray region beyond which I could not go and through which I could not see. I took it as a practical example for me and it may not be representative of others' experiences. I don't know if there is a limitless number of such 'boundaries' or whether they have size in the way we'd measure a boundary size. I suspect it is a succession of near-seamless transitions as we journey through the etheric dimension(s), perhaps slightly perceivable when we 'look back' on how we got to any particular locality.
    I don't see it as anyone determining their number or nature - just a natural progression from source to farthest reach from it and then back.

    An oddysey of discovery that we have always known about but which we experience as if we haven't. ;)
  12. Nirvana

    Nirvana Active Member

    I understand the Indian Masters better than you, and it is a competition. (jk)
  13. Convolution

    Convolution Active Member

    OK, I think I understand it now- at least as much as I can at this point in my journey, without having had an experience.
    What I don't understand is how the concept of infinity/eternity and lack of beginning, fits into all of this. (I also don't understand how other species on earth and other planets would fit, but that seems like a topic for a different thread).
    If we had no beginning, and we have no end, how do we have a progression? Isn't it, in a way, meaningless to measure the immeasurable? To define a point in a "line" that has no end nor beginning?
    I understand how it benefits abstract concepts such as mathematics, but not this subjective progression we would seem to be in. Are we destined to explore all we can of earth, then move on to other species and untold dimensions to have other experiences, forever, without end?
    Or do we do what some suggest as a form of end- merge with 'source', only to have that consciousness restart anew in a new journey someday?
  14. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    There is much I can only get a glimpse of in terms of understanding while in-the-body but I'mtotally comfortable with that. I'm not meant to know and/or it's not important that I do know, simply that I'm awar and able to accept such notions.

    Progression is measured in terms of this current odyssey, this journey of experience as individuated spirit away from source yet always linked to it.

    Perhaps it is pointless to try and maybe it's only as humans that we try. We do a lot of daft things, wouldn't you agree?;)

    No, not forever without end because always we're making our way back towards source with which we'll eventually merge - again.

    YES! :)
  15. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    Dear Convolution, the fact that you even are troubled by what should be non-questions very well illustrates why I insist that all discussion on this website be evidence-based! Your head is filling rapidly with nonsense that you later will have to un-learn, and I would so much hope to protect you from that as much as I can. I have sent you that bibliography. All of the evidence-based answers are there, expressed with much more thought, care, and thoroughness than any of us can express them here!

    All I can give you in the limited time I have now is a sound-bite summary on "levels" in the afterlife:

    1) The whole notion of seven levels seems to have been loosely around, but I first find it codified by George Meek. He did nice diagrams, and by now it is a shorthand way by which many in the field talk about the fact that the greater reality is a stratified process of spiritual growth. In fact, there are infinite levels and they exist all in one place just as all the TV signals exist in your room: you tune to one, and you find a new "reality" now manifested in your TV set. Now, assume that TV is your mind. The higher the "channel," the higher the vibration of those who are able to access it. The seven levels we talk about are really just groupings, for convenience. In fact, there are infinite gradations of consciousness!

    2) We can easily live on lower levels than the level to which our spiritual development suits us, but it is unbearable for us to go higher; those who have tried it tell us that it's as if the air is vibrating too hard. It's a sensation impossible for them to bear.

    3) If we want to visit higher levels, we can go as tourists under the cloak of someone who has achieved that level. My primary guide - I think he is fifth-level, which is not shabby - visited level six under the cloak of a friend, and he was blown away by it; he speaks of it with awe.

    4) The dead don't perceive levels at all, apparently; they just know there are places where only more advanced people can go comfortably. Mikey Morgan is probably the most advanced being who has spoken to us individually in modern times - he is near the source level spiritually - and when he was shown George Meek's diagram it astonished him. He had never in all his travels heard any thought of "levels"! He said, "All I know is I think I want to be somewhere, and I'm there." (Easy for him to say!)

    5) Since travel is by thought and instantaneous, we have no communication issues there. If we want to speak to someone on our spiritual level or below, we think of them and show up and talk with them. If it's someone higher, we put out the word and they either show up or simply put their thoughts in our mind for answer.

    This is just a few quick crib notes. I hope it helps! Dear Convolution, there was a very important reason why I spent the first three decades and more of my research reading exclusively accounts published before 1940. I had a baseline then of naive and sincere communications against which to measure whatever I read later. If you want to be a real student in this field, I urge you strongly to build your baseline first, before you worry about details, because otherwise these non-issues based on things published by people who really don't have a clue are going to keep tripping you up!
  16. Convolution

    Convolution Active Member

    Glad you mentioned the bibliography here. I hadn't received it, went looking and it had gone into my spam folder, for whatever reason.
    It's always humbling when smart technology goes dumb.
    Thanks for the attachment and information within!
  17. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    Might also be of interest: https://lightafterlife.forumotion.c...rch_keywords=charlie+kelly&show_results=posts
    Convolution likes this.

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