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What do you consider valid ADC?

Discussion in 'After-Death Communication' started by Mark Zerafa, Dec 27, 2016.

  1. Mark Zerafa

    Mark Zerafa New Member

    Hello everyone.

    I have just lost someone extremely dear to me and its heartbreaking.

    I have been reading up on contact with the hereafter but I sincerely believe that purported communications such as dreams, smells and sensing the spirit of our dear departed are not valid. These can be easily explained away as pareidolia, autosuggestion and a dose of wishful thinking. I am sorry if this sounds blunt.

    The only thing that can do justice to the cause would be acquiring clear, no nonsense, objective and verifiable information. All else is vague and subject to psychology.

    What are your thoughts?
    Best wishes
  2. milahanna

    milahanna Member

    I have the same concerns specially since I don't feel that I've received a sign.
    Mark Zerafa likes this.
  3. Mark Zerafa

    Mark Zerafa New Member

    If we are to validate this field of research, such unconvincing scientifically unsound "evidence" needs to be completely disregarded. In fact citing this sort of non-phenomenon gives a bad reputation to what is possibly the most important research mankind can ever undertake. Perhaps this is one very important reason why the paranormal is not taken seriously by mainstream scientists. I don't blame them if we consider a mere dream as evidence. Of course we dream of our dead loved ones. Its to be expected. Nothing to write home about here.
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2016
  4. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    Earth sciences aren't applicable to trans-dimension communications. I regret to say that you're unlikely to find a scientifically-based proof that our loved ones live on in a dimension we know little about scientifically. If you're unable to accept evidence of survival and/or unable to accept the teachings of individuals widely seen as spiritually-advanced, then you may have a frustrating time ahead of you.

    I see it this way. If you're hurting desperately but only scientifically proven data is acceptable then you'll likely find little relief from the pain of bereavement by searching. If, however, you're prepared to consider others' testimonies and innumerable accounts of contact between 'us-and-them', then you may find at least some relief. You're not unique in your loss. Many have similar pain. You stand a good chance of moving forward because you're here, now, and talking about things.
  5. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    Dear friends, I wouldn't believe in this stuff either if the dead were not themselves confirming that this scent or that cloud of butterflies - or whatever - had come from them. I have seen these confirmations too many times for me to any longer doubt them.

    Mark and Milahanna and so many others here, you are new to this game. I have been doing this for fifty years, and I can tell you without equivocation that our core problem is that a hundred years ago mainstream scientific gatekeepers established materialism as the fundamental scientific "dogma," and since in fact now it is well established that nothing whatsoever is material, mainstream science has essentially gone off the rails. If you hope for help from science, you are hoping in vain! They will look at this evidence objectively only after we have shamed them into doing it, and that process may take a decade or two longer. Meanwhile, fortunately, the evidence is clear enough that you don't need them - you can do the science yourselves!
    kim marine and Unexpected like this.
  6. Mark Zerafa

    Mark Zerafa New Member

    Please do excuse my ignorance Roberta. I am trying to learn. How do the dead confirm that they are behind a scent or a a cloud of butterflies?
  7. Mark Zerafa

    Mark Zerafa New Member

    Thank you dear friends for sharing your insights.

    I am not saying that the evidence for survival is not there. I am saying that phenomena such as ITC and certain types of mediumship .. not least, physical mediumship may produce the kind of objective repeatable evidence required for absolute certainty. I have to say i have been positively impressed by Marcello Bacci's work. I think it is such lines of evidence that we need to pursue. Such evidence is not subject to "contamination" with our own psychology, drives and desires.
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2016
    Goldie and Ken like this.
  8. Ken

    Ken Member

    Marcello is an interesting character but I would need someone like James Randi to check it out for me first. o_O
    Mark Zerafa likes this.
  9. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    Compared with Roberta's 50 years of investigating/researching or George Cranley's encyclopaedic knowledge of physical mediumship and communication, someone who knew and sat with many physical mediums of those days, I'm just a beginner with just 32 years 'in the spooks'. I guess with every new generation new seekers emerge with the desire to 'prove' survival either to themselves and/or to others.... "Nothing new under the sun." is a saying I frequently use.

    At nearly 70 years old my tack has changed. Instead of immediately rising to the taunt "Prove that there's an afterlife." etc I'm minded simply to say "You PROVE there isn't and I'll change my approach."
  10. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    Wouldn't you think Bacci has been investigated already?
  11. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    Yep! Many, many times.
  12. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    Oh my, dear Ken, how little you know!

    Debunkerism is the literal opposite of an open-minded pursuit of the truth, and Randi is one of the leading current debunkers. It's all a trick. Their most common device is to try to find out just enough to be able to spot what they think is some essential aspect of an afterlife-related phenomenon, and they find an alternative way to produce something like the same result, and then they claim the whole phenomenon has been debunked. It hasn't been, of course, but unless you are willing to investigate the matter more completely, you might believe their intellectually lazy nonsense. Please don't let yourself be fooled!
    Widdershins3 likes this.
  13. Mark Zerafa

    Mark Zerafa New Member

    I am very sorry Mac. That is not the way it works. Prove to me that there is no flying spaghetti monster. You can't prove his non-existencr. Ergo, his noodliness exists?

    On the other hand I am very enthusiastic about studying data generated by mediumistic sittings and ITC. I think these can provide irrefutable evidence if survival.
  14. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    Ah but that is the way it works for me, Mark.... Perhaps when you reach my age, when you've been persuaded as I and others have, then you may feel differently....

    Being unable to proving there is no "flying spaghetti monster" is a red herring because nobody (sane!) is alleging one exists or providing decades or more of evidence by uncountable numbers of individuals. Or communicated teachings by individuals widely-considered as spiritually evolved.

    And now in your last sentence you're talking about "irrefutable evidence of survival". Isn't that what we already have, what's already been done?

    How much more is needed?
    Unexpected likes this.
  15. Mark Zerafa

    Mark Zerafa New Member

    Mac... Perhaps its that I am mourning the loss of a person I loved so much, that I need as much evidence and proof as I can get. Perhaps I have an emotional need to experience irrefutable ADC. I just need to know that she's well. I just need to know I will hug her again. Yes... That's why I need more and more.
    Goldie likes this.
  16. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    Yes I see that and all general discussions mean little because you're seeking personal reassurance about your loved one. So many of us come to this topic through bereavement.
  17. Mark Zerafa

    Mark Zerafa New Member

    It would be interesting to see a confused and embarrassed Randi trying hard to debunk Marcello. It would vindicate Marcello's research beautifully.
    Goldie likes this.
  18. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    Bacci doesn't need Randi and neither does his work. It's sad, though, that outside of the cognoscenti the ITC he achieves isn't likely to be much known about or acknowledged. And his attributes as a physical medium are needed for communication to be successful.
  19. AmbraADC

    AmbraADC Banned

    Dear Mark,

    Experiencing any kind of psychic-related phenomena is a personal journey. All people who experience it must decide what to make of it, in accordance with their beliefs, and do the research they feel is necessary.

    I had my first ADC (after-death communication) when I was 21, back in 1981. Since it was my first one, I thought it was just an unusual experience and didn't take it too seriously. Ten years later in 1991, I experienced an ADC and some other rather unique psychic phenomena, and still didn't know what to make of it.

    But as I got older, I experienced more psychic things more frequently, and I had to figure out what to make of it all. Some of my experiences gave me verifiable information about my life, which helped. But in my case, I had experiences, I read books, I prayed a lot, I had more experiences, and I read more books. And overall, I think my psychic related experiences have been a blessing.

    I don't agree with everything I read, but thankfully, I have read enough to know that all of the experiences I've personally had, someone else has had and published in books. That helps. I am 56 now, and I have daily ADCs with a very special love in my life who died 32 years ago. And I'm still reading and praying and still trying to figure it all out.

    No one can tell you what to believe. All you can do is read books, listen to people, and consider your own experiences, or lack of them. You said you just recently lost someone special, and if you're feeling very emotional right now, it will most likely block any ADC attempts your deceased loved one is making. However, you might have some in the days, weeks, months, or years to come.

    Grief is an on-going, long-term process. Grief will challenge what you believe about life, God, religion and the afterlife. I personally believe that that is one reason that God allows people to grieve, as opposed to just giving them irrefutable proof that their loved ones are alive in another dimension. All of life is about our spiritual evolvement, and grieving will help you evolve.

    For me, I am a Christian, and I still am, despite opposing views that I have read. I have read nothing that convinces me not to be a Christian. I have believed all my life that when a person I love dies, that I will see them again in the afterlife or Heaven when I die. And because I believe that, I have never heavily grieved over anyone for years and years like I've seen some people do. My beliefs, my faith, has comforted me.

    What I never expected in my life was any ADCs or psychic experiences, but I have had many since 1981, some verifiable, too many not, and I have to decide what I believe. And the bottom line is, no matter what you read, that's the way God made this life. He made it so that we cannot know the full truth about many afterlife-related subjects, and He did that to test our faith as Christians believe, or help us evolve as others will tell you. You must have your experiences and read what you read and make up your own mind. That's all there is. My prayer for you is that God bless you with the peace that surpasses all understanding, at this trying time in your life.

  20. Ken

    Ken Member

    Im not trying to offend anyone here, that is not my intention at all. I personally believe in the supernatural or afterlife but I just think that a person who is skillful in the art of deception would be in a better position to weed out the charlatans.

    Personally, Mikey's messages are more believable for me than a radio picking up live human voices. Because Consciousness/spirit/soul does not have a mouth to make those human sounds and they do not have a gender(male or female voices).

    But this is just my opinion based on my experience at this point in time and I look forward to experiencing and discovering more things in the near future :)
  21. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    I can speak only for myself but questioning or challenging what I write never offends me... :)

    Weeding out charlatans is a totally valid consideration in connection with mediumship but this isn't a thread about that. Bacci sits and twirls the dials on his radio. What comes through that old device is assessed by those who sit for messages. Those who seek him out and find persuasion they're hearing from their loved ones seem happy with the outcome. I don't think he charges for his service (as best I remember) so he's not trying to dupe them for financial gain.

    Following (briefly) this line of thought, and just for comparison, perhaps the worst offenders - and I chose the last word deliberately - are those on the physical mediumship / phenomenalism gravy train. Practitioners professing to be physical mediums who sit in the dark and are regularly accused - by experienced individuals equally familiar with the tricks than can be pulled and genuine phenomena - of trickery, deception and fraud. This is not the place for such a discussion however but Bacci isn't in that group or anything like the individuals who are.

    I've followed Carol Morgan's development from the early times although not from the beginning. I can readily accept Mikey's words and ideas communicated through his mom as reflecting what he's finding and experiencing. But Carol doesn't work as an evidential medium bringing personal messages to seekers.

    Gender doesn't have the same impact of individuals in the so-called afterlife but it seems routine for those who do manage to contact us in our world to present as the gender they were with the appearance they had whilst incarnate. It makes sense to me that their voices will still sound masculine or feminine either to clairaudients, via the direct voice or through an electronic device. They're issue that others may disagree with me about and I'm totally comfortable with that. I'm confident in what I've learned although others may hold different views from me.

    That's the nature of forum work but also the nature of humankind generally. ;)
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  22. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    Ah, but he wouldn't do that. He would cheat and fudge and declare it all to have been proven to be fraudulent. These debunker types are the most inellectually dishonest folks on the face of the earth because they NEED to prove materialism. There is nothing objective about them!
  23. ShingingLight1967

    ShingingLight1967 Active Member

    Hi Mark,

    I must say that a year after my husband has passed, i am still looking for that concrete proof that he has survived physical death. After a year, several dreams, several medium readings and several happenings that could be considered communications, I am still looking for that irrefutable proof.

    As I posted in another thread, maybe *I* am looking for the grand showing that I have read so many other people have had. What is that? I dont know, maybe a medium telling me something very very specific that has happened after he passed, that he could have no way of knowing about. Maybe, as I have read in a few books, a physical manifestation that has been able to be studied.

    And yes, it is a personal thing for me. Will it help with my grief? I dont know, maybe. I know it wont help me miss my husband's physical presence, but maybe it will give me some sort of hope that we will be together again.
  24. Mark Zerafa

    Mark Zerafa New Member

    Although some may be satisfied with subtle signs and suggest that strict scientific evidence may not be necessary when studying the afterlife I beg to differ. How then do we ensure that the purported signs are actually signs and not figments of our imagination? How do we protect our investigations from artifacts? Paranormal investigation should not be exempt from scientific rigour and I say this with conviction and emphatically notwithstanding the fact that I am a newbie. This would be akin to blind faith. How then would this differ from blind faith in a religion? I gave up religion as it lacked rationality.
  25. ShingingLight1967

    ShingingLight1967 Active Member

    I think you are hitting my point better than I can explain it.

    After a year of research into this field of study I can not come away with the absolute certainty FOR ME that we survive physical death. I can not say that I truly understand that there is something more than what we experience here and now.

    In my situation the only evidence I can present is my own anecdotal experiences and there is no way to take them and confirm them with testing. None of my experiences have been witnessed by another person, none of my experiences can be confirmed. None have produced physical evidence that can be studied.

    I was just thinking this the other day, that everything that I have been through within this past year, can have an alternative explanations that make just as much sense. My dream visits have been just that- dreams. How can I know for certain that the mediums that I have met with, have not gotten information about from a google search? reading an obituary? social media posts? or the old cold reading technique? The tugs I have had on my shirts, how do I know that my shirt didnt catch on a necklace or a patch that I wear at times? The candle sconce that broke- was probably due to it being hot and old and finally just shattered. My wishful, grieving mind is making stuff up. You know occam's razor and all.

    Where I sit today, there has been nothing I have seen/experienced that has proven to me beyond a shadow that we survive physical death. I honestly dont think there is anyway to know with any certainty until we either arrive there ourselves upon our own deaths, or dont.
  26. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    Dear Mark, the dead expect that within a decade we will have very reliable electronic communication between levels that anyone can use. Basically, an inter-dimensional telephone. Do you need some scientist to come up with rigorous proofs that when you ring up your best friend for a chat, that conversation is not happening in your imagination? No, right? And neither will we need to bother with scientists telling us that the communications we will be having electronically are real. We won't need scientists then for anything much, which is a good thing since the profession as a whole has covered itself with shame by refusing to investigate and only trying to debunk the afterlife evidence for more than a century!
    kim marine likes this.
  27. Mark Zerafa

    Mark Zerafa New Member

    I look forward to that Roberta. I don't like it when someone jumps to the long shot conclusion that a fleeting, flickering shadow seen at the corner of one's eye is dear aunt Maggie saying "hello". Likewise, I am upset when a bigoted scientist refuses to analyse the data for the afterlife, dismissing the possibility a prori. I think we need to strike the right balance. Its the way forward, in my honest opinion.
  28. milahanna

    milahanna Member

    As much as I would love this to happen, I'm a bit confused about the whole thing.

    Are we even really suppose to have communications? The veil was purposely put up, right? We come here with our memories essentially erased to experience and learn. Sounds like earth was created to be a school so if we breach that veil to where anyone and everyone can communicate, won't the whole purpose of this world/dimension fall away?
    kim marine likes this.
  29. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    As always the 'wet-blanket' mac is somewhat in agreement with some of mil's thoughts.

    I started following the reported ITC interest early last year and since then I've been reading up in fits and starts on what's been posted online. Not necessarily a complete picture but, with any luck, probably indicative of it.

    At first I was dubious about what I was hearing but eventually I began to accept there was evidence of success using so-called ITC. I was personally unable to make out much from the communications but I became accepting of the honest intent of the folk who claim they do hear the voices of the so-called dead. That was a major step to take. But some of the claims didn't work for me so I began trying to sort the wheat from the chaff. I'm still trying and also trying hard to be open-minded while at the same time not allowing garbage to fill that openness!

    Last summer ALF's members followed discussion and debate about so-called ITC with Stations. Optimistically, perhaps wildly over-optimistically, big improvements in the clarity of message reception was promised for about now. Later it was suggested that the improvements would be seen perhaps in five years

    For a website where it's regularly been reinforced that time is meaningless in the world-of-the-spirit I could see no logic in claiming any measurable time frame for success. Based on what? Our unseen friends are not constrained by time as we mortals are. Unless an event is imminent, how can a time-frame be calculated by those for whom time has ceased to apply?

    We are told that spirit-side devices are already operating successfully and that our electronic communication devices can be used to link to their etheric counterparts. I can now accept that claim but I do question the logistics and the m.o.

    We were assured that the established mode of trans-dimensional communication did not need a human go-between or facilitator. Someone commonly known as a medium or channeler. That sounded very heartening and would be a distinctly different way from traditional mediumship. What I've read since, however, makes me question that claim but even if it's correct, are we really on the threshold of having an "....inter-dimensional telephone....that anyone can use"? Roberta says "the dead expect that within a decade we will have very reliable electronic communication between levels that anyone can use." So first it was a few months, then five years and now "within ten".

    I'm left wondering if I'll get to see on this side of the divide a device to achieve what's being claimed. And as for mil's thoughts in her last sentence above she make interesting points. If survival beyond death was unequivocally proven globally, might it not fundamentally undermine an important principle of this dimension - the uncertainty about what comes next?

    If we all categorically knew that every single one of us lives on beyond death, and everything else that goes along with that knowledge, what might be the outcome?
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2017
  30. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    My dear, at one time I shared your worry that perhaps we really aren't meant to know these things. I felt compelled to write The Fun of Dying in 2009, but just before it was first published in August of 2010 I began to panic about my possibly revealing things that people are not supposed to know! I prayed on my knees that if my publishing that book was not God's will, I would please die right then so the book would never see print. Well, not only did God not take me up on that offer, but I have been used to educate the world about this stuff more and more intensively ever since. We have more recently been given to understand that the fact that people haven't known what was going on has led too many people to make negative and unloving choices, and as a result the spiritual vibration of this planet is so dangerously low that now its survival as a useful school is at stake. Accordingly, an intensive effort is underway to raise the planet's vibration, and quickly; and all this recent more intensive afterlife communication - and the development of possibilities for direct communication without a medium - are part of this process. So, yes, apparently we are indeed supposed to know this stuff. No question!
    kim marine likes this.

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