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time - not what you're expecting!

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussions' started by mac, Feb 14, 2018.

  1. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    We're always debating time and how it's not linear and all that good stuff. This thread has NOTHING to do with that! ;) No it's something much simpler and basic - it's about how we perceive time in our daily lives. Let me explain.....

    I'm an old fart and grew up post-war when the UK used Imperial Units for weight, volumes and expressing the temperature. I grew up with pounds, shillings and pence and most of our imperial units changed when the UK changed over to the metric system. I worked in science all my life and I still routinely use metric and imperial units interchangeably. I'm fortunate I am familiar with all the common and not-so-common units.

    Significant to this thread now I also grew up with analogue clocks and watches although we didn't refer to 'em that way as digital displays were rarely seen at that time. I learned to 'tell the time' the traditional way and forty years later when I worked in learning support I found myself working with less-able kids and teaching them how to tell the time. What I found surprised me; not only did these kids not know how to tell even basic time they hadn't come into contact with a traditional clock or watch. I assume their parents would have had digital watches or used a cell phone and if there was a house clock (far from certain) it would likely have been a digital one. Whatever - the kids simply didn't recognise or understand clock-face time so my role was to teach it.

    It also made me wonder about what a clock face meant - or indeed a digital display - in practical terms to these kids. As they couldn't relate to twenty five past six, for example, did they understand how many minutes it was before their favorite TV program, for example? But did 6.25 mean anything either? Maybe time has never meant a lot to youngsters and it's only as we age that it takes on significance? Or is there more to it than that?

    Take a look at twenty three minutes after seven on an analogue clock. With a bit of familiarity and practice a child can actually see how far 'the big hand' has to move before it's 8 o' clock and time to be in school or whatever. The child doesn't need to know it's indicating that particular time because they can see the hand moving around the dial and heading towards the point when they know something important has to happen. But what if the clock shows 7.23? What does that mean? A child can't do the math working out how many minutes there are between 8.00 and 7.23 or see a point where something has to happen as the minutes display approaches it - or can they? I just don't know. We taught our daughter both digital and analogue time before she went to school and she knew what both meant to the degree a small child does. We would ask her what the time was using both analogue and digital clocks. But without someone doing that for their own kids, who else can? School? Maybe. If there's enough....time!

    So now I hear folk saying 6.44 instead of 'almost quarter to seven' 6.30 instead of half past/after six, 12.23 instead of about twenty five past twelve etc. Is that progress or dumbing-down?
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2018
    kim marine likes this.
  2. Bill Z

    Bill Z Active Member

    IMO it is dumbing down. Here's what I'm seeing:
    1)There is no (or little) cursive writing taught anymore. It exercises both sides of the brain.
    2)We communicate in 144 character tweets. Younger people tell me not to send emails, they are too long.
    3)Music IMO has been degraded. Billie Holiday, Hendrix, the Beatles, Tony Bennett, James Brown, Bach & Chopin could not get a gig in the current music scene.
    4)GMO's, flouride, etc, etc IMO dumb us down.
    5)Instant gratification rules!

    IMO we are being dumbed down, the question is BY WHO?

    Frank Zappa said: "do your job, do it right, life's a ball. TV tonight!"
     
  3. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    Isn't it the society and its fashionable values that are contributing to our dumbing-down? Not a person or persons but by the fashions of modern life....

    If tweeting led to our being succinct I'd laud the change and I'm not confident that using cursive writing would improve folk's ability to communicate effectively - 'pretty writing' doesn't lead to that. Disciplined thinking might. Music, like art, appeals to whom it appeals and fashion is all. I'm far from persuaded that adding fluoride to drinking water for dental health causes dumbing down or for that matter genetically modified organisms...

    But maybe you're just sending us up. ;) In my piece I wasn't.
     
  4. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    It seems to me that we are being dumbed down. We are becoming followers or people who are afraid to be different. Nobody likes to think deeply anymore or talk about deep stuff. I have been criticized for expressing my self poorly in my writing by a certain member on this forum;), but I do like to think about deep stuff. I'd like to talk about it but nobody is interested. It seems deep to me anyway.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2018
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  5. Cute Bear

    Cute Bear Banned

    By ourselves, by agreement.
     
    kim marine likes this.
  6. Bill Z

    Bill Z Active Member

    Mac we can agree to disagree on this:
    On Cursive:
    Scientific studies have proven their cognitive utility and ... researchers surmise one reason may be because when we write by hand, every letter of every word demands different actions, engaging the brain more.
    From NY Times: learning to write in cursive is shown to improve brain development in the areas of thinking, language and working memory. Cursive handwriting stimulates brain synapses and synchronicity between the left and right hemispheres, something absent from printing and typing.

    If Shakespeare, Jefferson, Jung only tweeted we'd be in a world of hurt. Sure it's good for a quick response but quick responses don't answer large questions. I've been told by many millennials that they can't comprehend more than a paragraph and to me that's pretty sad.
     
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  7. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    I'm happy to be corrected by scientific studies but your original assertions were preceded by "Here's what I'm seeing:" It sounded like your opinion. Had you said the above originally we wouldn't be having this conversation now....

    Clearly unable to be substantiated so that's an opinion but I accept your point that their mastery of language would be hard to appreciate in an unending series of tweets. I'd expect, however, all of them would eschew such a means of communication.

    Nothing to disagree with there. The situation concerning tweets is also sad and dispiriting when leaders of nations use them to communicate with the electorate. Tweeting, text messaging and using social media etc. do, however, allow a measure of communication - often poor communication admittedly - for individuals whose standard of education and personal ability is not of a high order.

    Maybe what's most the problem, though, is that teaching and eductional standards generally are simply not as good as we should reasonably expect. And that's another conversation. ;)
     
  8. ravensgate

    ravensgate Active Member

    Kim Marine, perhaps your "problem" is that you know what you want to say but are unable - for whatever reason - to articulate it adequately. No worries :)
     
    kim marine likes this.
  9. genewardsmith

    genewardsmith Active Member

    Kim Marine makes sense to me.
     
    kim marine likes this.
  10. ravensgate

    ravensgate Active Member

    These days it is such a treat to receive a handwritten letter! Personally, I have very little use for today's sloppy ways of communicating. Perhaps I'm "old school", but whenever I receive an e-mail containing several mistakes (spelling, etc.) in the first few lines, I'm left with a rather poor impression of the sender and end up deleting the e-mail. If you can't show your recipient a bit of consideration, in the wastebasket you go :rolleyes: Do high school and college students still write essays? If not, I think they should bring essay writing back!

    Regarding children and time, their learning about time isn't something innate (a few have suggested that children "are born that way"); rather it is learned. By the age of 5 children are usually able to tell that 20 minutes is less than an hour, or that 3 hours is longer than 15 minutes. As they age, they improve. Before the age of 7, most children have a rough time putting the descriptors in their proper place; for example, if you tell them that you ran for 20 minutes and your brother ran for 1 hour, and then ask them to tell you who ran more, the children tend to stumble.

    In an issue of Cognitive Psychology, researchers Tillman & Barner (2015) suggest that before mapping the duration of time, children learn time words as an ordered category, and for children to grasp the real meaning of time, they must experience the words and the concept together. Interestingly something very similar also happens with colors, numbers, and emotions.
     
  11. bluebird

    bluebird Well-Known Member

    ****APPLAUSE**** ;)
     
  12. Cute Bear

    Cute Bear Banned

    The predominant reason anyone uses social media is because that electronic venue is favored by undeniable numbers of the populace including but not limited to the electorate.

    <face palm>
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2018
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  13. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    I am glad I make sense to you, genewardsmith. It seems that the invisible Spirit is trying to be made a material object here on ALF, because some need to have evidence based on scientific fact and put those facts before Consciousness where facts do not exist. Eternal Reality is based on the frequency of thoughts in Consciousness and our thoughts are who we are eternally. I experienced this in a coma, but as of now this world is not ready to hear about the wisdom hidden within us. I look at the word conscience and I see "science" which simply means: "knowledge". Then I see "con" which is Latin and means: "with or together". If the two are joined I get "conscience" and derive that it means knowledge joined together with something else or knowledge from the visible carnal world joined together with knowledge from the invisible spiritual world. We feel and believe that this world is something, but its nothing. We are living under a delusion. As freaky as that sounds I know it is true, but it can't prove it. Where would my faith or the faith of others come into play if it could be proven?
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2018
  14. genewardsmith

    genewardsmith Active Member

    I don't know how you would prove it or what that would even mean, but part of the reason I said that you make sense to me because so often you agree with what ACIM has to say. ACIM says we are an eternal thought, and we think and thereby create other eternal thoughts. It also says this world of time and seeming separation is illusory. Of course, my belief that this makes sense is not scientific; instead, it is based on trust in a source which seems astonishingly intelligent, wise and knowledgeable to me.
     
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  15. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    I agree with you. I know many people cannot understand this nor do I, but I got a close glimpse into something that saw everything I ever was throughout eternity, and it wasn't my spoken words that were listened to but my thoughts that I use to form words to communicate with. Now some of the scenes that I viewed are reappearing in my life here in the physical realm of Eternity. It makes me think of those things in a store that read the bar codes stamped on a product to ring up the price. If man can create something like that in the visible realm surely Consciousness can do something better in the invisible realm.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2018
  16. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    Does ACIM's message mean that this world in itself is illusory? i.e. all aspects of this world included

    Or does it mean that the notion of a 'world of time and separation' is illusory?
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2018
  17. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    A quick check on a definition for 'delusion' gave this : "An idiosyncratic belief or impression that is firmly maintained despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality or rational argument, typically a symptom of mental disorder:

    I don't feel I'm living under a delusion based on the above definition and it seems implausible that 'we' - implying all of us - are living that way either.
     
  18. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    All I know is that when I was in the coma and unconscious of life on this earth I was conscious of life elsewhere, and I continuously kept refusing to wake up, as encouraged by my guides. I simply could not figure out why, because I thought I was already awake. I also wondered where I was to go since what I was conscious of at the present time seemed just as real to me then as this reality seems to me now. I don't feel like I am living in a delusion, but I know I am because I had an experience.
     
  19. ravensgate

    ravensgate Active Member

    Kim Marine, will you kindly answer the many questions I have for you? I would like to gain a better understanding of your experience. If you cannot remember or do not know, simply say so. Thank you. Here are my questions:
    What was the nature of your accident? Exactly what type of injuries did you sustain? How old were you at the time of your injury? Did you have any previous medical condition(s)? Were you on any medication prior to your accident? How long did your coma last? Was it a medically induced coma? Did you experience cardiopulmonary arrest (no breathing, no circulation). Were you defibrillated? If so, how many times and how many joules? Did you find yourself able to see what was going on in the room (pretty much like an OOB experience)?
    Is it possible the guides encouraging you to wake up were nurses, doctors or family members? Were you intubated and if so, for how long? What surgical procedures were performed (if any)? What medications were used, especially pain medications and barbiturates? Do you remember how you returned to this world?
    I sincerely thank you for answering. I could ask many more questions, but I think I put enough on your plate! :D
     
  20. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    I don't know what it would mean either. I just said it to ward off any inklings of being asked to prove that I know the invisible realm of reality exists.
     

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