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Thomas Jefferson's views on Jesus

Discussion in 'Spiritual Growth & Development' started by Goldie, Jun 4, 2017.

  1. kim

    kim Active Member

    I couldn't agree with you anymore than now bluebird!
     
  2. jimrich

    jimrich Active Member

    I wonder if Jefferson ever examined and translated any of the ORIGINAL biblical writings to see what those writing actually said - for him self? I wonder just how many folks have ever gone to the original biblical material and did their own, personal research and interpretations of any of it rather than mindlessly swallowing what so-called scholars have given us over the years?
     
  3. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    Jefferson read neither Aramaic nor Hebrew, so no, he did not. He read the Gospels only, and in English, French, Latin, and Greek, in all of which languages he was fluent.

    It should be noted, too, that the "original Biblical material" is in Greek, but Jesus spoke Aramaic so already we have translation issues. Furthermore, the Council of Nicaea in 325 both took words and phrases out of the Gospels and added things to the Gospels (mostly fear-based lessons on church-building), so the only way we can be reasonably sure of what Jesus actually said is by comparing Gospel sections to what the dead tell us on those same topics.
     
  4. genewardsmith

    genewardsmith Active Member

    The idea that the Council of Nicaea edited the Bible is, I think, a common urban legend. If you have a source for the claim I'd be interested to see it. In fact, even the claim they determined the canon is pretty dubious.
     
  5. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    I majored in Early Christian History in college, fifty years ago. It was a big turning-point for me! All I can say is, if you enjoy hot dogs, don't watch them being made. If you want to think the Christian Bible is the Inspired Word of God, then whatever you do, DO NOT study ANY of the early Christian councils! And Gene, the biggest Biblical urban legend of all is that the Christian Bible is the Inspired Word of God. Having read it cover-to-cover at least half a dozen times, I can personally attest that it cannot possibly be the Inspired Word of a rational, internally consistent, and genuinely loving Deity. No way.
     
    kim likes this.
  6. genewardsmith

    genewardsmith Active Member

  7. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    Perhaps actual church history has changed in the fifty years since I was taught that Nicaea (a) removed most references to reincarnation and (b) added fear-based church-building stuff, but somehow I doubt it. Believe whatever you like, Gene, but it is clear to anyone who actually sits down and reads the Gospels that the Lord's words on love, forgiveness, and the meaning of life are dramatically inconsistent with the sheep-and-goats nonsense tucked in at the back. There is a whole appendix in my book Liberating Jesus that details what they added.
     
  8. mac

    mac Staff Member

    Would you post that appendix here please, Roberta? I'd like to read the details you guys are debating. :)
     
  9. genewardsmith

    genewardsmith Active Member

    The question of what church scholars say the Council did with respect to reincarnation is a factual issue, not a matter of belief. I thought I could settle it since it's discussed on Bart Ehrman's blog, but alas, the answer lies behind a pay wall. The free stuff does go far enough to find he emphatically rejects the idea the Council edited the Bible.
     
  10. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    Gene, If you are going to rely on "church scholars," then of course you will never find objective truth about anything! The possibility that the Bible might not after all be The Inspired Word of God is anathema to people who have devoted their lives to defending the notion that the whole thing is God's truth, and any evidence to the contrary be damned. In point of fact, the Bible CANNOT all be the Inspired Word of a perfectly loving, internally consistent, or even of a sane and rational God. Believe whatever you like, Gene, but Dr. Ehrman is a Christian apologist. I am a crusader for the perfect eternal truth of the genuine Jesus! In the 21st century, we can be for Christianity or we can be for Jesus, but it is no longer possible to be for both.
     
    kim likes this.

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