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The "Other" Use for ITC

Discussion in 'Instrumental TransCommunication with Stations' started by Andrew, Jun 18, 2016.

  1. Andrew

    Andrew Guest

    Hi Everyone!

    I found this interview with Sonia Rinaldi on YouTube today, and I thought that many here would find it interesting. We've spent a great deal of time recently discussing the work that Sonia and Craig are doing with ITC, and how it will put us into contact with our deceased loved ones--but there is actually another purpose that Sonia in particular is currently exploring. She is beginning to use ITC in order to help embodied, disabled people to communicate. For example, in the video, she mentions helping to connect a pair of parents with their child, who suffers from non-verbal autism. Illnesses like autism and Alzheimer's exist within the brain, meaning that the person's mind and personality remain unaffected, and that he or she is perfectly capable of communicating with the help of ITC.

    (The interview is in Brazilian Portuguese. There are English subtitles, but they aren't great because they are automatically provided by Google. I've just requested permission to publish a subtitled version myself for English speakers, and I'm currently waiting to hear back from the content owner.)

    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 18, 2016
  2. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    I'll wait for your translation, Andrew, and hope you get permission. I came into contact with this notion - or rather a similar one - a few years back when (husband) Dennis O'Connor was writing in an online forum about his wife Georgia. I think she's pretty well known as a medium in the USA.

    The suggestion was that mediumship could enable certain mediums to contact the spirit of an individual who was unable to communicate in any way, such as in a persistent vegetative state or other coma. Strictly that's not mediumship which is transdimensional communication but that's not important. If some psychically sensitive practitioners can indeed communicate in the way suggested it might be a hugely helpful breakthrough in helping this sad situation.

    Enquiries around my regular forum contacts revealed that there was nothing new in that technique - it was known about from the past. Sadly, though, I wasn't able to turn up many actual accounts and no-one seemed interested in being involved that way.

    It's a puzzle, though, how the device used in ITC could be used by the animating spirit of an incarnate, albeit one who is unable to communicate physically. As we're told the device is situated somewhere in the higher spiritual levels the animating spirit of such an individual would not only have to navigate its way into the etheric level(s) but would also have to travel to the higher level where the station is located. Perhaps in such coma situations the animating spirit is more free to move than when deepy involved with the physical shell, the way most spirits presumably are other than during sleep.

    Not suggesting it couldn't be done but a good explanation would be helpful.
  3. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    There is no "place," dear. No distance. From an earthly perspective, everything is exactly where we are, but only at higher vibrations! I am coming to theorize that since the estimable figures who are developing the North American Station tell us that they are in the highest realms (apparently the sixth level), while regular dead folks communication through the Station use it readily even though they might be at just Level Three or Level Four, then the Station itself must be on all levels. Not difficult to imagine, when you realize that they are all in the same place but only at different vibrations. And the same would go for the etheric realms that we visit during sleep, and that those in comas or otherwise impaired also can easily visit. To think of it differently, although they tell us it seems physical to them, the North American Station may be something like a state of mind. We are learning that just our thoughts can summon them to it so they can use it to communicate with us. The physics of the non-material is so very different from the physics that we are experiencing now!
  4. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    Language again lets us down. The words 'place' and 'distance' are simply shorthand for aspects tricky to describe, hard to visualize.... Similarly there are no "highest realms" or numbered 'levels'. Again they're shorthand because our words can't adequately describe the true situation.

    For many years I haven't had any difficulty picturing all dimensions and levels occupying the same 'location' but many seekers of understanding may view numbered levels and 'higher vibrations' as linear. I have never thought of life in the etheric dimensions taking place on numbered levels of existence. I mention them only in the context of others' ideas.

    When raising the points I did I had simply been listening to the way the ITC station's 'location' has been described. How it's 'far' enough from the so-called lower levels that mischief-makers - discarnates with limited spiritual progress - are unable to interfere, aren't able to operate at the different frequency.

    As for visits in sleep we don't know exactly where our animating spirits actually can go when they're visiting the next dimension. Why assume those spirits will know how to locate the building where these communication devices are being used? And a building with tables and machines is how it's been described so why suppose it's something like a state of mind?

    You don't know, I don't know, what freedom to leave this physical dimension is enjoyed by any individual animating spirit of someone affected by PVS or in coma. The degree of freedom likely corresponds to the overall spiritual progress of the individual affected. In human form we are each at differing levels of spiritual awareness and so will be our animating spirits. What we do know is that our spirits are presently not as free to roam and interact with discarnates as they will be after our corporeal death.

    As yet we don't know if our thoughts can simply summon 'the dead' as you like to say. The dead will engage if they choose to engage or else the principle of personal freewill would be violated.

    As for physics 'over-there' being different than physics here I'm pleased to see that after many times of my raising this subject on ALF you're at last acknowledging that the sciences of the dimensions may be very different one from another. Perhaps one day you'll accept that we know almost nothing about the sciences of the world of the spirit because we've been told almost nothing by our unseen friends - the dead.
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2016
  5. Andrew

    Andrew Guest

    I don't know, but I don't think that the living communicators are using the Stations, Mac--I believe Sonia is just using "regular" ITC to contact them. That's speculation on my part, but I think it makes sense that they would be communicating to her from the earthbound plane. Those in comas, for example, are often aware of their surroundings, but it seems doubtful that they could leave the earth entirely to access the Stations while the silver cord is intact. (However, it's perhaps worth noting that other physical beings can and do use the Stations to contact us.) Another theory of mine, albeit it a less likely one, is that Sonia is contacting their higher selves, which would "be" in the Summerland levels.

    And the issue of distance and spacing in the afterlife levels is certainly more complicated than we likely can imagine, but one spirit author gave what I think is the best explanation of this issue that a mortal could understand. She said that the various spheres are not different "places"--they are actually different mental states, and the law of attraction groups all spirits with other like-minded individuals. It's the internal thoughts of these groups that creates what they understand as being their external environment. When those in Spirit visit a different level than their own, the author said, they are looking into another mentality; the actual travel is illusory.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 20, 2016
  6. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    I was only responding to the subject being under the umbrella grouping of 'Instrumental TransCommunication with Stations', Andrew. What defines so-called regular ITC?

    I made a very similar point in my posting #4 (a detailed response to Roberta) along with several others.

    What "other physical beings"? What evidence?

    The aspect of the so-called higher self was debated at length here some time back with little evidence that any such component of existence actually operates in the way suggested.

    The aspect of 'real vs 'illusory' is yet another debate we had some time back and can still be found elsewhere on ALF.

    It remains unclear whether all alternate/alternative 'locations' - for want of a more suitable word - have a substantive existence or whether only some of them do. There are many, many accounts of locations - places - that appear to be permanent and shared by many discarnates. Yet other 'locations' appear to be very personal and perhaps transient (eg one's chosen home immediately after passing) or specifically created for a smaller number of people, such as mountains and snowfields for snowboarding as enjoyed by Mikey Morgan and his friends. Such well-known examples make it hard to find a better alternative noun than 'places' to describe them.

    And no matter how hard any author might try to convey the nature of discarnate life, (s)he is constrained by the language of this physical dimension. Even just referring to spheres (of existence) may give the impression that etheric dimensions are spherical! If we were to refer to them as 'dimensions' I doubt any image with a specific shape would come to mind. Just one more element in my argument for better alternatives to words commonly used.
  7. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    Dear Mac, something that I really have trouble understanding is why when I read posts on this website - and I do read every one of them - now that we have managed to get control of trolling problems, the only posts I ever read that still seem antagonistic to anyone are your posts that are directed at me. I ask you now please to stop doing that. There is no historic war between us over anything, and I have no need to be more right or expert than you are. Why do you feel that there is a contest going on between us?

    I don't believe that the evidence that I have seen supports some of what you say above, and if I weren't detecting personal hostility from you I would be happy to say that, but when you preach that I must "at last one day accept" that something that you suppose that I believe is in error when in fact I suppose no such thing; and when you assert as fact that we have been told "almost nothing" by the dead on any particular topic when you cannot possibly know everything that individual discarnates have said to everyone on earth, then my interest in discussing these matters shuts down. Please assume that I would agree that you are right on all matters, dear, and perhaps you will be able to get past whatever it is that you think is going on between you and me. And please consider yourself hugged.
  8. Truth seeker

    Truth seeker Member

    Andrew if you manage to get permission to translate it, I hope you can send me the final english subtitles file with the time code so I can subtitle it from english to spanish...
  9. Andrew

    Andrew Guest

    So far, I've not heard back from the original YouTube publisher; I'll be sure to update you when I do.
  10. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    Dear, if you don't get permission to subtitle it within the YouTube itself, you still can post a separate translation here! I think that all of us would love to read it ;-).
  11. Andrew

    Andrew Guest

    Good idea, Roberta. Just a transcript might be a little confusing, because Sonia has a powerpoint and audio clips that she references in the video, but I'll see what I can do! :)
  12. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    It's rather a shame that this thread fizzled out so quickly but even if Andrew produces a translation we'll still be unable to ask Rinaldi any questions.

    Not only am I interested in aspects of trans-dimensional communication but I am also specially interested in the inability to communicate experienced by some individuals classed as being on the autistic spectrum. The possibility of contacting the animating spirits of such individuals and maybe others affected by coma, persistent vegetative state, dementia etc. is exciting but potentially daunting.

    It's hard enough explaining to someone bereaved that life - in spirit form - goes on beyond bodily death and that sometimes unseen family and friends manage to breech 'the veil' and tell of their continued existence. Imagine, then, the situation where not only that has to be explained and accepted but also the notion that the animating spirit of an embodied individual may be reached using equipment used for 'speaking with the dead.'

    One wonders how many conventional mediums have 'picked up' the spirit of a person unable to communicate in any way but then been unable to establish a suitable dialogue with parents, friends or carers that would enable it? I'd love to hear the take of any medium with such experience.
  13. Andrew

    Andrew Guest

    Hi Mac! I'm sorry, but I haven't had a free moment to work on the translation to the video--I'm finishing another afterlife-related project at the moment and, as you may have noticed, it's left me with no time even to work with the North American Station over the past week. As I mentioned above, you can select Google's automatic translation of the video as you watch it; those subtitles aren't great, but you can probably get the gist of the film that way. Unfortunately, it will likely be another couple of weeks at least before I find the time to make my own translation. (I also still haven't received the formal permission to do so.)
  14. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    It wasn't a dig at you, Andrew, and I realize you're busy with other projects. :)

    It was an expression of regret that the subject couldn't be opened up and even if you do later provide a translation there won't be any opportunity to ask questions of the subject's starter, the only one who can answer the questions that would be asked.

    I did try the automatic translation for the video but didn't care for the outcome. :)

  15. Truth seeker

    Truth seeker Member

    I just watched that video a few days ago, its amazing the recordings she got, you can hear clearly a child voice communicating not some garbled weird sounding voice sometimes one get on a traditional ITC with the spirits... this could help to change the materialistic view of medicine...
  16. Andrew

    Andrew Guest

    I see what you mean, Mac. Sonia does speak English well, but even so, I doubt she'd have time to answer our questions here. She's very busy right now working with visual ITC, I think. It is too bad we can't discuss these concepts with her though--as the TV host in the video above says, Sonia is the "greatest ITC researcher on earth." Her achievements are, to my knowledge, unparalleled.
  17. Truth seeker

    Truth seeker Member

    Do anybody here know an email,twitter,facebook or a mean to get in contact with sonia? I have a few questions for her, I will also like to try ITC on living with a disabled person friend of mine, and I will like to know more info....I dont know if its the same steps as to connect to the stations only that you said or think about the living person when he/she is sleeping or in a coma
  18. Andrew

    Andrew Guest

    Hi Truth Seeker! I don't have Sonia's email address--I have only worked with her briefly, and we communicated through Craig on that one occasion. She doesn't seem to have a website either. You might try emailing Craig though; maybe he would be willing to contact her on your behalf. You can find his contact information here.
  19. Truth seeker

    Truth seeker Member

    Thanks Andrew...
  20. Truth seeker

    Truth seeker Member

    no luck yet..I have yet to receive a reply from that site..I have even send him a privatte message on facebook, but he hasnt read it yet...

    I also has sent a facebook message and friend request to Roberta but she also hasnt read it yet...

    I hope someone here that knows mr. Craig could tell him that I need his help..thanks..

    P.S I think I have meet him briefly in Scottsdale,Im pretty sure it was him, He must remember me, I standed out in the crowd haha
  21. Andrew

    Andrew Guest

    Hi Truth Seeker. I've emailed Craig to ask for the instructions. He says that the recording procedure is the same as the one that we use to contact the dead because Sonia's method contacts the living person's higher self through the station while he or she is asleep. He is unsure though, about what exactly the earthly researcher says during the session, so we are waiting for a reply from Sonia about that.
  22. Truth seeker

    Truth seeker Member

    thanks Andrew,if the person goes to the station then I suposse the person has to speak some of the languages they are using....I have read that sonia has received messages on spanish, the disabled person I want to speak with speak spanish, being that portugese its very similar maybe it will work, I will have to try it then...and I suposse as the person goes to the station then I dont have to be in the same house he/she is sleeping

    also this raisres more questions about thr station location because Mikey said a living person can go to the afterlife levels, but Jurgen multidimensional men says you can....Hope Carol and mikey could be back soon..
  23. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    Hi Truth seeker! This question of whether the living can go to where the dead are is one that interests me as well. According to dead communicators, the areas where the dead reside are inaccessible to anyone still trailing a silver cord, and in fact in many NDEs people will come to a kind of barrier and be told that if they venture further they won't be able to return, but they will be dead. There is other evidence, too, that the afterlife realms are different from the astral realms that we can access, so I long have assumed this was a pretty open-and-shut thing: we can't go where the dead are. Period.

    So, what do we make of Jurgen Ziewe's claim, and the claims of some others, that they have been to cities and universities and extensively traveled in the afterlife areas?

    According to a few dead communicators and other evidence, apparently the general astral areas also are enormous and full of stuff - cities, mountains, universities, etc. - and they are a kind of neutral ground, where we interact freely with those not in bodies. There are descriptions of astral travelers taking classes, with some people trailing silver cords and some not. Ditto, people in cities. We know that we meet in the astral with our spirit guides, and I have been given memories of the wood-paneled conference room (looks like lighter cherrywood) where my own meetings take place. These areas in the astral are so detailed, and so full of dead folks who freely come and go there, that it would be easy for Jurgen and others to assume that they are in the general afterlife. But I think the preponderance of the evidence suggests that our earlier understanding is correct, and these are two different astral areas.
  24. Andrew

    Andrew Guest

    This is an extremely interesting debate--I'm not sure that the dead themselves understand exactly how this works, because I have read conflicting reports about where the living can travel in works that appeared otherwise consistent. For example, in Claude's Book, the author mentions that each night, he comes down to the earth plane and takes his mother to the Summerland, where she helps him to soothe the newly dead. (He actually says that as a living woman, she is more helpful than he is, since she can more easily relate to the newcomers' state of mind.) But on the other hand, works such as Heaven Revised and Life in the World Unseen seem to suggest--they do not say it explicitly though--that the living cannot visit the Summerland.

    As Roberta says above, many writings do appear to reference whole communities in the earthbound realm, most notably Elsa Barker's Letters from a Living Dead Man. However, I do wonder whether some of these authors are confusing the earthbound plane with the afterlife itself. From the dead's perspective, they are both worlds of spirit, and some even refer to both as the "astral realms." (Some earthbound spirits, such as the author of Barker's books, even communicate to the living that the earthbound sphere is the afterlife, which adds to the confusion.) However, the author of Claude's Book was clear that his mother visits him in the third sphere of the Summerland after he retrieves her from the earthbound/astral plane.

    I suspect, too, that we are oversimplifying what is a complex issue. After all, we are not really here per se; our higher selves are actually where the dead are. And it is the higher self that Sonia Rinaldi's method contacts while the living person is asleep--Craig has just heard back from her about this, and he passed the information on to me. She connects to the station as usual and asks for the living person just as she would ask for a deceased person; the only difference is that she has to do it while the living person is asleep.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 11, 2016
  25. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    Not for the first time in discussions about what happens 'over there' we find ourselves stymied by our spoken languages. We are unable to communicate effectively when there's a dearth of clear, widely-accepted definitions of the words we use and what they are supposed to convey.

    Exactly what, for example, is the 'summerland'? Or the 'Astral level'? And exactly where and exactly what are 'earthbound' entities? Which widely-acknowledged teachers and guides have taught that our so-called higher selves remain outside of this physical dimension while our (presumably) 'lower selves' experience life in the physical body?

    There is so much confusion and uncertainty that meaningful discussions are difficult if even possible and I'm reluctant to accept what's written by most incarnate authors is authoritative. Unless I hear different guidance on such fundamental issues from a new generation of spiritually-evolved discarnate teachers I'm going to rely on what I've learned from the old generation ones....

    The discarnates with whom practitioners and individuals communicate most readily may have little more understanding concerning the complexities of the 'regions' and 'levels' of the afterlife than we do. And even if some do understand, do they have the ability to effectively communicate their understanding to us humans? I suspect most probably don't.

    I'm intrigued by the accounts I hear of electronic means of trans-dimensional communication, and would love to find that my misgivings about what's being claimed are unfounded, but between now and then I will remain sceptical.
  26. Andrew

    Andrew Guest

    Thank you for your wise words, Mac. The paragraph above made me think of a particular post-death narrative that I referenced briefly above: Heaven Revised, by an anonymous author--that is, the discarnate author is anonymous; I believe that E. Duffey was the living contributor. In the last chapter of the work, the writer mentions that the various afterlife regions she describes are not physical places; rather, they are something like collective mental states. I think that this is the best definition that we on earth would be able to comprehend.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 12, 2016
  27. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    Which "collective mental state" on earth do we experience that would allow us to comprehend afterlife regions? I can't think of one. To my way of thinking, as humankind we experience on a very individual basis, not a collective one.

    My question "exactly what" illustrates how difficult it is to describe - or discuss - certain issues. And by definition 'afterlife regions' can not be physical places in the way we understand places in our physical world. The so-called afterlife is, after all, something we see as etheric or of a 'higher spiritual vibration'. But exactly how do we define 'spiritual vibration'. :confused:

    We may know what we're trying to say but are we achieving it? If we can't communicate effectively with one another, what chance is there that our unseen friends can communicate anything meaningful about what they experience in their world(s)?
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2016
  28. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    Is anybody there?

    For a time we enjoyed interesting discussions about ITC but during mid summer it all fizzled out. Similarly with most other topics here too.

    Andrew is probably busy back at his studies but does anyone know what's happening anywhere else in this exciting field of study? :confused:
  29. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    Hello Mac! The work continues. Yes, Andrew is very busy, but he also continues to do this work, and more recently Sheri Perl - someone else working with the North American Station - has been getting wonderful communications from children to their parents. It's a process, since the more the lines of communication are used the more they will be strengthened.
  30. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    thank you, Roberta - I'll look up Sheri Perl later....

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