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The mathematics of reincarnation

Discussion in 'General Afterlife Discussions' started by kermadec, Apr 21, 2014.

  1. For the last few years I have been very interested in the subject of the afterlife and reincarnation and read many books on the subject, including Dr Brian Weiss and Raymond Moody. It has given me great peace of mind and I really enjoy all the information I can get on it. My husband has not been particularly interested in the subject, although he is aware of my interest and is not bothered by it. Last week I was reading Brian Weiss's book for the 2nd time and I have so wanted to share my enthusiasm with him, so I read the story of Catherine (Dr Weiss's ''what the''!! moment) out loud to my husband. He listened to the whole story, but as we got to the end he just looked at me and said reincarnation is not mathematically possible.! I thought about this for the next few days, trying to do calculations!! and I fear he may be right. As each generation comes along, it increases by huge numbers. Those of you who do Family trees will affirm to this. There just simply isn't enough people previously born, to give the total population of the world today, so many previous lives. This has blown all my hope away....Is there anyone who has done the numbers on this is would sure be interested in anything you have to say.

    The 2nd question I have is....from what I have read, we usually reincarnate into the same family...So how freaky must it be, when you get to the otherside, and you are anxious and excited to meet up with all your family and you find out you were also your own Great Great Aunty, your nephew, your great great grand mother in previous lives. Hmmm!!

  2. Celera

    Celera Active Member

    Hello kermadec and welcome to the forums!

    These are two quite common concerns with the idea of reincarnation.

    As to the first, when I do a family tree I am struck by the reverse impression -- so many people, so many histories, that all boil down to my particular life with my particular genes.

    It is true that there are far more people alive today than at any other specific time in history (as far as we know.) This has led many people to accept the idea that most of the people who have ever lived are currently alive, which would complicate the idea of reincarnation except for two things:

    1) It isn't actually true -- in fact the people alive today may only be about 5% of the total human lives in history. http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fact-or-fiction-living-outnumber-dead/

    2) There is no reason to assume that all incarnations occur here on Earth, or that every person alive today has been incarnated before. There may be many people alive right now experiencing their first incarnation.

    Your second point is one that troubles several of our members here as well (although it has never especially bothered me personally.) It is not clear to me how consistently we incarnate with all the same people in our immediate family every time. Soul groups, who tend to "travel" together, are very large and somewhat fluid. I believe that in this incarnation I chose a life somewhat detached from most of my soul group.

    Still, the type of thing you mention does occur. I have a different relationship with my sons today than I did when they were children. Our relationship is enriched by our history together, by the years when they were infants and the difficult years when they were adolescents. In the Summerland, our relationship may be further enriched by memories of previous incarnations as well as the various stages of this lifetime.

    Everything is added on, nothing is lost.
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2014
  3. mac

    mac Staff Member

    There are no mathematical laws that relate to the process of reincarnation. The global population has never been determined by the number of souls who return for more than a single incarnation.

    I'm unable to comment on the books you've been reading but I am able to make observations based on a thirty year interest/involvement with the subjects of life, death and the so-called afterlife. The aspect of reincarnation is simply part of that story and more of the story needs to be read to make sense of elements frequently considered in isolation - as you are doing with reincarnation.

    One problem is that certain aspects are more 'sexy' than the fundamentals and they grab attention without folk having a sound grasp of the fundamentals. Issues such as past life regression draw folk in rather than the simple aspects of why we're here in the first place. Some comprehension of that, however, can lead on to a broader understanding of the issues I mentioned earlier. Near death accounts are similarly attracting attention presently and whereas they're a great start to learning, just as with reincarnation by themselves they can't take you far.

    I hope all that reassures you that some of us have been at this stuff a long time and have pulled apart most (if not all!) of the aspects that puzzle folk to see how notions stack up to scrutiny. On this website you'll find a few of us and elsewhere there will be others. I hope you'll not lose the peace of mind that knowing about survival et al can bring simply because your husband has unnerved you.

    I'm mac and you might want to take a look at some of my other 'stuff' to see if anything I write about appeals to your reason.
  4. Andrew

    Andrew Guest

    Hi! Welcome to Afterlife Forums!

    Firstly, I am going to have to disagree with your husband's calculations. He is right, of course, when he says that population is increasing exponentially. It has been steadily doing so in the West since the Industrial Revolution. However, that does not make affect reincarnation, because you are lacking one piece of information: how many people/spirits/souls there are - in total - who can incarnate. [Actually, each and every person that exists is a powerful, eternal being. We were never created and we will never die.] That being said, the afterlife literature consistently tells us that there are far more people in the afterlife right now, than all the people who have ever been on earth combined! In fact, it's generally said that there are more people trying to be born than there are bodies to put them in. This is one of the reasons why human life is considered so valuable from the perspective of the afterlife.

    From what I have read, we also do not seem to reincarnate into the same families very often. I believe I have read an account or two of this happening, but generally it is not common. We want to get a variety of different experiences when we come to earth (or to any planet), so we generally choose a variety of different time periods, countries, and social-economic backgrounds. Of course, all people outside of Africa can trace their lineage back to India - and thus are all distant relatives - so that's really a very minor detail.
  5. frith

    frith Member

    If you're taking a scientific approach to reincarnation as in trying to figure out the math how about first scientifically working out whether we have souls or not?

    Probably not since the last major extinction has there been fewer non-human animals on this planet than there are now. If those animals have souls and they reincarnate I don't see any rules saying they can't become forms of life that have higher brain functions.
  6. Andrew

    Andrew Guest

    Hi Frith! Science has already proven that (1) human consciousness is not housed within the brain and, subsequently, that (2) it is housed within the mind, which is a non-material entity. For all intents and purposes, I suppose we could call this a "soul." Personally, I avoid the word "soul" - because it steeped with religious connotations. I fail, however, to see what this particular proof has to do with reincarnation?

    As for the rest: The afterlife literature actually tells us that "lower" life forms are composed of the same Source (i.e. God, if you prefer to call it that) as we are - however, it is a different form of that Source. Therefore, they tell us, animals never incarnate as higher beings, nor humans as lower ones. It's simply not a possibility. That being said, animals do not seem to reincarnate at all. This is because they are already spiritually perfect - their only purpose here is to help us learn.
  7. Nirvana

    Nirvana Active Member

    Really? Where'd you learn this?
  8. Andrew

    Andrew Guest

    I believe I originally saw this statement on the Science Channel. Mainstream scientists are rather infamous - in our circle - for ignoring the pivotal evidence uncovered concerning spirituality and consciousness but, when it comes to non-controversial issues, they seem to know what they're doing. :D

    After I saw your post, I did a bit of research, which verified the idea that we all - except certain people of African descent - can trace our heritage back to India. This article says that all modern humans descend from Africa, either directly or indirectly. Naturally, modern Africans are the ones who come directly from Africa - but all others come from Africa through India, where the first humans who migrated (or were purposely displaced, which I believe is a real possibility) from Africa settled. A little more research confirmed that this indirect line can be traced to India.

    This makes sense, if one thinks about it. After all, the oldest cultures and religions in the world can be found in India. Hinduism is so ancient that it has no known founder. In fact, some of Vedic chants used by Hindu priests are actually sung in a non-human language. The chants have been passed down from father to son for millennia. Linguistic studies confirm that they are not in and do not resemble any human language. What they resemble most is birdsong. In addition, Hinduism is also the most factual of the world's major religions, when compared to the afterlife evidence. It nails the idea of what God really is and it has a deep understanding of the purpose of life and reincarnation.
  9. I really don't want to believe we reincarnate. I want my son who I lost two years ago to remain my son. I want to remain his mother. This creates so much anxiety for me. I don't want to come back. Here or any other planet.
  10. mac

    mac Staff Member

    "I really don't want to believe we reincarnate. I want my son who I lost two years ago to remain my son. I want to remain his mother. This creates so much anxiety for me. I don't want to come back. Here or any other planet."

    Then don't believe it. You don't have to accept the notion of reincarnation if you don't want to but you can't change actuality and what I think I'm hearing is that you are realising that.

    But as a general observation, and not one directed at member mokandi, I've so often remarked on these forum pages that folk are trying to make sense of issues which need to be considered in the context of 'the big picture'. Without a fundamental grasp of the principle of life, death and continued life elsewhere - something it's evident that even some regular contributing members don't have, not just lurkers - they're often looking at issues in baffling isolation.

    In terms of reincarnation it's particularly obvious that western humankind has very little detailed guidance, even from the philosophy that underpins my own small understanding. Less than that and the subject is more down to faith, belief and conjecture.

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