1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Afterlife Forums is an online, interactive community designed to give seekers direct access to prominent researchers, to afterlife literature, and to one another in order to foster both spiritual growth and public interest in life after death.

The Devil's Due

Discussion in 'Spiritual Growth & Development' started by OrichalcumEye, Oct 24, 2011.

  1. The going theme on these forums seems to be that there's definitely a God, a heaven, and all that jazz... but there's also definitely no Satan, Devil, Hades, or whatever you want to call him, and no hell. What I'd like to know is, why do you assume there can be one without the other? Both concepts come out of the same basic pack of myths and scriptures in the Abrahamic traditions, right?

    I expect someone will mention that they've not heard anybody mention a devil in medium-assisted communications or what have you. My rebuttal is that any devil worth his brimstone, being less powerful and inviting than his counterpart, would do all he can to conceal his existence from all but those who are already in his clutches. You have to admit, it's literally irrefutable...
     
  2. I really, truly doubt that any real figure of evil incarnate could manage to insinuate himself into every Judeo-Christian religion and simultaneously hide from all of the higher beings that have contacted us thus far. It makes no sense unless you also assume that everybody in the afterlife is "in on it" and working to keep the devil hidden.

    It's a moot point, anyway: everything that afterlife researchers have learned so far indicates that evil brings weakness, and is a fundamentally self-defeating quality. Any being of pure malice resembling the "Satan" of mainstream Christian thought would therefore be completely harmless.
     
  3. Andrew

    Andrew Guest

    Thank you for asking about this, dear OrichalcumEye! I think Roberta actually mentions this briefly in her book (Chapter 9 maybe). Here is the gist of what I have come to understand about evil:

    1. Evil doesn't exist:
    There is more than sufficient proof, both scientific and anecdotal, to prove that God/Mind is the only thing that is real. Everything else is an illusion. What is an illusion? Carol and Mikey had some wonderful input about this over the weekend. An illusion is real in some sense, but it doesn't exist objectively. So this entire universe is an illusion. It is real, but not objectively because it is not part of the Greater Reality. I know this sounds like a contradiction, but it really isn't when you think about it. Anyway, God is all that exists - even we are part of Him. God, in turn, is made of nothing but loving energy. So where in that, could evil exist?

    What we earthly beings consider evil, such as murder and torture, are just mistakes. Murderers are not evil, they are just not spiritually advanced as much as we are and can thus be more easily misguided by earthly temptations. It is likely that everyone has killed someone at some point in their many lives, even people like Yeshua. So, when you are judging a murderer, you are also judging yourself.

    So, if everything is good, wherefore can the devil exist?


    2. The Devil is likely a primitive fairy tale:
    God is absolutely loving. When you are familiar with the evidence of this, it is no longer to possible to doubt it. Therefore, the story of Lucifer makes no sense. If someone did rise up against God in Heaven, and I highly doubt that anyone who's there would want to, God would not respond at all. Apparently, God might not even be aware of the universe, since it doesn't exist in His Eyes. The people around that person who was rebelling against God would try to help him realize that God is all that is, and that he is part of God. There is no way that God would punish this person though, especially by sending them to Hell.

    My thinking is that the devil was created by primitive, iron-age people who couldn't grasp the concept that there was no evil. There was never a war with the Hell. Yes, even Yeshua is fabled to have talked of the devil, but he really didn't. His real meaning has been lost in translation. The Our Father prayer, which now finishes with "and deliver us from the evil one." was original "and strengthen us against temptation." You see, he was talking about earthly attachments that hinder spiritual growth, not the devil. I don't know why it was translated that way.

    3. Love is the only powerful thing:
    As Yeshua said, "The heaven and earth shall pass away; my words shall never pass away." He is right, his teachings of love are the only eternal thing. As we already established, evil is doesn't exist - it is not even an illusion, just a misunderstanding. Love is eternal!

    Furthermore, as VioletRose pointed out, "evil" beings are extremely weak. They have no power but that which you give them. The people in the afterlife are aware of the misguided beings in this spiritual planes, but they tell us that the devil doesn't exist. They don't just leave him out, they refute his existence. These highly advanced beings would certainly be aware of such a weak, pittiful being as the devil. It is impossible that primitive humans would find out about the devil thousands of years ago, without enlightened beings knowing about it now.


    One can exist without the other, dear OE. I know a lot of people that good isn't good without being compared to evil, but that never made sense to me. Satan is a myth. For the devil to exist, that would mean that part of God was permanently evil, which is impossible!
     
  4. Birki

    Birki Member

    Speaking of Abrahamic tradition, I was watching "Ancient Aliens" tonight on TV (a recorded episode, I don't know when it aired), and they hypothesized that Abraham was actually speaking to two different alien beings when "God" told him to kill his son...then told him not to. So perhaps the "devil" is really just a bunch of bad aliens! Maybe. ;) But I agree with the others, the devil doesn't really exist. I know some religions/spiritual traditions have the concept of yin-yang, two sides coexisting, but I don't think it is is necessary or logical that if we have good (God) we must have bad ("devil").
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2011
  5. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    What a fabulous question, dear Eye! And as always, my dear friends Vita and Birki and VioletRose, you have answered him wonderfully - there is little more to add. This is such an important question, though, that I want just to talk about my own view of Satan and how I have come to see this issue. For decades I looked for evidence of a devil - it was at the top of my short-list of of questions! - and I found almost no discussion of it anywhere in the older afterlife literature. It was as if nobody in 1920 cared about even asking this question; or if they asked it, they were told rather impatiently that of course there is no devil... next question? It was frustrating! I kept coming across evidence of some really demonic disembodied nasties in the world, so how could there not be a devil? It is true, as Vita and Birki say, that good does not require evil as an opposite; but on the other hand, what I wanted was the truth, and not just theories. The devil is known as a trickster and a deceiver, and I assumed for decades that there likely was a master-source for all the evil in the world. The devil just was hiding very, very well. It was really only when I spent time piecing together the physics of the greater reality that I began to put it all together, and I saw (to my relief!) that not only is it possible for there to be no devil, but it seems to be impossible for a powerful negative entity to exist. Here is what I now understand to be true:

    1) Spiritual advancement is the only source of genuine power. The more advanced a being is, the more powerful it is; and the more spiritually benighted a being is, the weaker it is - to the point where the only power that disembodied nasties have left is to frighten the susceptible. We have talked about this quite a bit elsewhere on these forums, and I have never found an exception to this rule: disembodied demons are scary, but they have no power to do anything. Very advanced disembodied beings, on the other hand, can manipulate matter and interact with our minds in amazing (and sometimes incredible) ways.

    2) Primitive societies were easily frightened. It is so easy for people to scare themselves! Especially when primitives didn't understand the source of droughts or illness or death, and when spooky spirits were all around them, it is easy to see where the idea of a devil came from. All those nasties likely had a source and a leader! Made sense to them; and for a long time, it made sense to me, too.

    3) We ourselves are apparently the source of whatever evil exists in the universe. We can't be sure about this, of course, but advanced channeled beings have hinted at saying that we are it, guys! In freely using our free will while being clueless about why we are here and what reality actually is, some of us have chosen to experiment with not-love in ways which have created negative energies which simply do not exist elsewhere. If this is true, then the imminent elevation of human consciousness should go a long way toward eliminating what is surely the worst possible kind of pollution!

    4) God is all that exists. Or Mind, if you will. Our minds are part of eternal Mind, which means that you and I are real as well; but everything else is Mind-created illusion. As Mikey tells us, this illusion is not vapor: it is "real," in that we need to take it seriously and we cannot ignore it. But in an ultimate sense, only God is real. And in that ultimate sense, evil cannot exist.

    - Great and profound question, dear OrichalcumEye - thank you so much for asking it and getting us thinking!
     

Share This Page