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The Anxiety of Receiving Unwelcome Opinions from Professionals

Discussion in 'General Afterlife Discussions' started by DenverGuy, Mar 27, 2018.

  1. DenverGuy

    DenverGuy Active Member

    From a logical standpoint, if we reject opposing viewpoints because we so desperately want to instead receive only validation of our own beliefs, we're probably doing ourselves a disservice. With this subject I am guilty of that. But then, how do you handle opposing viewpoints from people who are supposed to know a lot more than I do - folks with PhD. degrees? I don't see how anyone can know for sure about any of this, but I like to at least try to believe learned people who have put years of research into it

    Anyway, I found this person who holds a doctorate in public health who is a spiritual healer, is respected, and has written several books. She had lost two partners (her term), a brother, and others, so she knows what this is like. I listened to a webinar that she hosted, I wrote to her, and she said that I could call her at no charge. I thought that was very generous of her.

    Well, I called her last night and was on the phone for an hour and a quarter, and the whole time I couldn't wait to get off. I don't think that in all of that time I talked for more than 90 seconds. I hate to be ungrateful with her taking so much time with me, but it was truly exasperating. Any short questions that I briefly injected were met with confusing, circular, long-winded, disappointing responses.

    For example: I asked her if my girlfriend missed me, was aware of me, etc. She responded that that was a self-centered question (not in an insulting way), and that if I didn't exist, that question wouldn't exist - or something like that. In other words, they were only my thoughts, so it was nothing real. My sense of loss is selfish, is negative, and doesn't matter to anyone but me. I don't know... But she went on to say that they move on, they continue to love us, but their memories of us fade away. They don't really think about this as they are working on their own growth. Even though she (the lady on the phone) had experienced tough losses she didn't seem to understand where I was coming from.Not very encouraging, to say the least.

    She also said that I couldn't communicate with my girlfriend because my vibration was low and that I needed a certified medium.

    She then recommended many books and sites. That's great, but who has time for all that?

    And then came the ol' "she would want you to move on" line. I told her I didn't want to move on. She then gave me a long explanation of what that meant - not that it made me feel any better. She said that rather than living for the person we physically lost, we should live for our "highest purpose." I took that to mean finding someone else, but she was vague about that, although that is what she did.

    (I am over-simplifying this).

    Again, I don't mean to sound ungrateful. She was very generous with her time, I didn't pay her, and she didn't owe me anything. But this was a call that I wish I hadn't made. Of course a big part of communicating is listening. She was far more interested in saying what she wanted to say than any questions that I had. I called have called her, shut up, and let her talk the whole time.

    All of what she said flies in the face of what Swedenborg and the foundation say. There's that contradiction. It goes to show me that seeking more information is kind of like a mental minefield. It can really blow up in your face. I sure wasn't feeling great when we hung up.
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2018
  2. ravensgate

    ravensgate Active Member

    DenverGuy, I'm sorry that telephone call was something you wish you hadn't made, but may I ask you why you wish you hadn't? I have no idea what she said to you, and what PhD she holds, but in my opinion, holding a PhD does not make you an expert in this field - or any other field except, perhaps, the one that earned you a PhD! I hold a couple of PhDs and I am no expert when it comes to spiritual matters. Then again, I do not believe there is anyone who can/should call himself an expert on the afterlife because, again in my experience, personal bias, those pesky preconceived notions, etc. tend to get in the way, :( All we can do is weigh the "evidence" we have and arrive at our own conclusions. Some say to consider what you read, hear, and then keep what resonates, but it does not work for me because I think that, in my case anyway, what I keep that resonates with me might simply mean I don't want to consider a less appealing alternative... a sort of cherry-picking, if you will.

    I happen to disagree with the person you spoke with on one point, that our loved ones' memories of us tend to fade away. Did she give you a time frame? I do not believe that is the case.
    The reason I don't believe it rests with the fact I had a couple of personal experiences that shook me up a bit. I think I had them because I am/can be your typical ostrich with its head in the sand, forever trying to explain everything in a "logical" matter. Thing is, I go way overboard, and my pursuit of a logical explanation turns into an illogical endeavor, lol.

    I've had several experiences that began in my late 20s; I went from atheist to a believer because of these experiences. Nevertheless, the spiritual events and the "gift" some say I possess scare the crap out of me. If they are gifts, I'd love to return them, I kid you not. So let me tell you about one event, and I hope by reading it, you will find some comfort.

    One evening, around 2300, I was sitting in the dining room reading a medical journal. I was wide awake, everyone else was asleep and there certainly was no other thought in my mind - I was too engrossed in my reading. Suddenly, I had the impression that "something" was shifting, a bit difficult to explain, but I felt a shift accompanied by energy in the air; it's like the atmosphere in the room changed.
    Everything in the room remained the same, no moving of objects; nothing changed except the "feel", and that is when I saw him standing in the doorway. A man who had died several years before, a man I had missed so much during those years. He appeared a little younger, but what amazed me was the layers of light that covered him.
    I would describe the light as brilliant, sparkling frost or perhaps like millions of tiny clear light dots were covering him. His apparition did not scare me, but I was a bit surprised, to say the least. He said something to the effect that he could not understand why I spent so much time mourning his passing; said (and this I remember very clearly) "I'm only a call away, you know that". I noticed his mouth did not move, and it appeared to me that he was able to tell what I wanted to say, what my thoughts were even before I could verbalize them, because he said that yes, he'd be there to welcome me home when my time came, but for now I had to focus on living my life.

    Since then I found that he will come and visit. When I ask for a visit, you can be sure it never happens :-/ but he will visit when I do not expect a visit at all. Perhaps this is as it "should be". Knowing myself, if he came to visit after my asking, I would tell myself "It's because you were thinking of him...", but I'm not sure, of course.

    Again, sorry for the experience and what you made of it, but don't let a PhD and convoluted, empty statements (or gibberish?) cast doubt. As I said, based on my experiences, they do not forget about us. They may be very busy "progressing", learning, etc., but your beloved is only a call away, and she will be there to welcome you home when your time on this planet comes to an end. :)
  3. dingodile

    dingodile Member

    I agree. There is, as far as I know, no PhD-granting program in "Afterlife Studies." Then again, maybe there is and I've just never heard of it. Earning a PhD is first and foremost an indicator that one is capable of acting as a disciplined researcher in some field or other, and that one has achieved a level of expertise in some narrow slice of that field. That's not without value but it doesn't follow that everything such a person says should be believed.

    It's easy enough to say "follow the evidence"; it's less easy to say what should and should not count as evidence for any given assertion. In almost any field, there are questions about which even the PhD-holders disagree. That's because even though they are presumably all acquainted with the same information, they don't see eye-to-eye about how to interpret it. Moreover, in many fields the theories that are under discussion are simply underdetermined by the available evidence. I think all of these problems, and others, are in play when we discuss the afterlife.
    bluebird, pandora97 and ravensgate like this.
  4. bluebird

    bluebird Well-Known Member

    I agree with what ravensgate said: "...in my opinion, holding a PhD does not make you an expert in this field - or any other field except, perhaps, the one that earned you a PhD! I hold a couple of PhDs and I am no expert when it comes to spiritual matters. Then again, I do not believe there is anyone who can/should call himself an expert on the afterlife because, again in my experience, personal bias, those pesky preconceived notions, etc. tend to get in the way, :( All we can do is weigh the "evidence" we have and arrive at our own conclusions." People who think they are experts regarding the afterlife are deluding themselves, in my opinion. They have the right to their beliefs, but since none of it can be proven, those beliefs remain beliefs, they are not proof or evidence.

    I will say what I have said many times before on this site and elsewhere -- you know your beloved best, better than anyone else in the universe, certainly better than any "expert". If there is an afterlife in which she continues to exist, you know better than anyone else if her feelings for you continue. Just as I know my husband best, and I know that if there is an afterlife where he exists and where someday I will exist as well, he still loves me every bit as much as he ever did, if not more, and holds me close to his soul as he always has done.
  5. DenverGuy

    DenverGuy Active Member

    Ravensgate, I wish I hadn't called her because what she told me was very deflating. The last thing that I needed to hear was that they love us, but forget us. That doesn't make sense.

    Bluebird and dingodile, you are correct. When I posted that it was just after I had talked to her, and I hadn't handled it well. Now, I barely remember the call - and that's a good thing. I have dismissed it in my mind, I guess.

    Thanks, everyone, for your helpful words.
    SashaS likes this.
  6. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    This reminds me of the double slit experiment, and how it seems matter can either be particles or waves. It seems we get what we expect when we look, but when we don't look something seemingly unexpected happens. Those in the afterlife don't want to give us what we expect, because there is something better in store for us. But we need to have faith in the invisible. This is a video with Craig Hogan speaking about how we collapse the wave of energy to create reality. He illustrates the double slit experiment in the video:

    I also want to include an article written by him about non-physical reality:
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2018
    Amore and Bill Z like this.
  7. Bill Z

    Bill Z Active Member

    I Joined AREI and there are a lot of good things they offer. Teleconference seminars, There are archives of past presentations. IMO very good information.
  8. Bill Z

    Bill Z Active Member

    Widdershins3 and Monika like this.
  9. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    Thank-you Bill
  10. Michelle Schill

    Michelle Schill New Member

    I am so sorry you had such an experience. Was this supposed to be a reading? If so, a reading should always be loving, if it is not I would question the validity of it. The truth is that Spirits work on their growth and communicate with their loved ones who are incarnated at the same time. The moving on thing is very misunderstood. You can still miss your loved one in Spirit and communicate with them while moving on. Moving on means living your life. Spirits enjoy maintaining relationships with their loved ones who are incarnated. This does not keep them earthbound, trapped nor keep them from working on growing. We are multi-faceted beings and both incarnated and Spirits can move on and have a relationship. Moving on is ceasing hanging onto the grief for dear life. The only thing I agreed with what she said is that you may have trouble communicating with her because your vibrational frequency is low due to grief. This is very normal at the beginning and should not upset you. As you work through your grief your vibrational frequency will rise, making it much easier for her to get through to you. I am one of those who believes that communicating with Spirits is not just for "special" people. It is a sense, just as the five senses, which has been suppressed throughout the millennia. Some are born with it stronger and are able to maintain throughout life. Others need to work to hone it. If you can get your vibration raised and work on communicating then you do not have to worry about conversations such as you had with this person and you won't have to pay anyone to do it for you.
    Amore likes this.
  11. Widdershins3

    Widdershins3 Active Member

    Oy. I've not been here for a while and felt bad as I read your opening post, DenverGuy, but then I saw that others had commented right away. So sorry you ran into a boorish person. PhD or not, a boor is a boor and this one doesn't sound as if she has much (if any) privileged information about the other side to share. There are such rich sources of information from kind, well-intentioned experts out there that it's a shame this woman is receiving recognition. But it happens.

    I'm currently enjoying Tricia J. Robertson's 2nd book, More Things you can do when you're dead: What can you truly believe? Lots and lots of accounts of people who've had encounters with spirits and ghosts and chapters on mediumship too. And delivered in a respectful and sometimes humorous way. That's what I like about Roberta's books too--the way a kind soul shines through the text. I wish you better luck in "experts" in future.
  12. Michelle Schill

    Michelle Schill New Member

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  13. jimrich

    jimrich Active Member

    As a child I was programmed to be a gullible, trusting and NEEDY doormat so I've been used and abused by so called experts and authorities for most of my 80 yr life. Not long ago I finally allowed self esteem work to "sink in" and I am now much more able to stand on my own two feet, avoid "experts" and follow my own conscience rather than fearfully go to "experts" for advise, etc. My life long NEEDINESS is much lower now and dropping by the day as my courage and self respect rises to meet any and all situations. I've found that many if not most "experts" and authorities are fragile, unreliable, have hidden negative agendas and will happily dump on any NEEDY doormat that come crawling to them for help and advise. Becoming my own person and authority is the best thing that has ever happened for me and I hope I never again throw myself at the feet of some fallible, emotionally damaged "expert". THANK GOD FOR SELF ESTEEM TRAINING!!!!!!
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  14. genewardsmith

    genewardsmith Active Member

    You might read Feynman's book QED. In it he explains how light particles create the impression of being waves, while never ceasing to be particles. The same applies to fermions such as the electron. I'm not convinced things are as malleable as this sort of thing suggests, either here or in an afterlife experience.
  15. tintoela

    tintoela New Member

    Denverguy, I went to see a medium yesterday (still recovering emotionally) who also used the phrase 'moving on'. I think we place our own society norm onto that phrase. It is expected that once our partner dies we just find another one. You and I know, and quite a few others here, that this is impossible.

    Yes, my partner wants me to 'move on' but I told the medium that it would depend on what that meant. She said that he wants to feel my joy and wants me to laugh and that I should live rather than just exist. Nothing about finding anyone else to replace him, just that he wants me to enjoy things till we are together again.
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  16. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    Some years ago, when much of this 'stuff' was still fairly unfamiliar to me, I became a remote friend, for the last couple of years of his life, of a Brit guy who was in regular contact with his wife after her passing. He wrote a book about it titled 'Link and Communiqué' about which we communicated and about which he explained more of what he'd heard from her.

    I expect that book is long out of print but I may just have my own copy in the loft. If I can clamber up there I'll take a look to satisfy my curiosity.
    Bill Z likes this.
  17. DenverGuy

    DenverGuy Active Member

    Well said, tintoela. I appreciate that.
    I will listen to the William Murray interview.
    No, it was not a reading. It was just a conversation.
    Thanks, everyone!
  18. Bill Z

    Bill Z Active Member

    Thank you everyone for these posts. I just listened to the William Murray interview and it was very helpful. There were so many parallels with his experiences and mine. Susie also wants me to "move on" but moving on for me is not finding another even though She is ok with that but it's not for me. For me, now at least. moving on is learning to see the beauty in life again that we once enjoyed together, helping others and preparing for our reunion n Spirit.
    Monika and pandora97 like this.
  19. pandora97

    pandora97 Well-Known Member

    Beautifully put, Bill!
    Bill Z likes this.

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