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Discussion in 'Spiritual Growth & Development' started by RobertaGrimes, May 2, 2012.

  1. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    Some who read early drafts of The Fun of Dying fretted that I had made the afterlife sound so appealing that I would be prompting suicides; so then I added to the book strong cautionary language about the risks of suicide and the difficulties that many suicides face in forgiving themselves. So now - depend upon it! - nearly every time I speak, some older set of parents or a frail-looking sister will come up to me afterward and say that their beloved child or brother killed himself, and after having read The Fun of Dying they fear now that he is in the outer darkness, and how can they help him?

    We cannot win! Dear friends, we are in a box. There is no way to simultaneously comfort the innocent relatives of suicides while at the same time we sternly shake potential suicides by the shoulders and try to dissuade them. After losing our beloved friend Identity, some here thought that we ought to post a thread to try to dissuade visitors from killing themselves, and I have volunteered to begin one. But I am having trouble being as blunt as I would like to be. all those sorrowful parents and waifish sisters are too much on my mind.

    Dear much-beloved friends, self-murder is the ultimate act of selfishness. Don't do it. There can be no reason good enough to bring that kind of suffering upon those who love you - not just the pain of your loss, but also the agony of guilt that they didn't see it coming and they didn't prevent it. If you find the notion of maybe taking your life at all appealing, here are some thoughts for you to ponder:

    1) It is impossible to kill yourself. You are eternal! Killing off your body only deprives you of the means to improve your situation, but it doesn't solve anything. As I have told several suicidal folks, suicide solves nothing! The problem with killing yourself is that it is impossible for you to die.

    2) You will have to witness the suffering of your loved ones at your death. Whatever is making you feel glum enough to think about taking your own life, it cannot possibly be as bad as having to watch those you love as they deal with the aftermath of what you have done.

    3) You may have trouble forgiving yourself. Those who cannot forgive themselves for things that they did in life will condemn themselves to the miserable outer darkness level of the afterlife. And they may be there for quite a long while before rescuers manage to get their attention. Far from enjoying the Summerland after death, the risk is considerable that you might be consigning yourself to eons of misery.

    4) You will almost certainly come back and repeat all the same lessons that led you to commit suicide in the first place. This comes up over and over again in the afterlife literature. Those who kill themselves will promptly plan a new lifetime in which all the stumbling-blocks of the old one come up again, although now they are worse. Did you have financial troubles in this life? In the next, you will be a pauper. Marital troubles? In the next, you will find yourself divorced and abandoned multiple times. And so on and on - you will plan to make that next life all the harder in your zeal to learn these lessons once and for all. Or so the evidence tells us. So if you are going to have to face and learn from these lessons anyway, then why not do it now? Why not just get it over with?

    - About the only bright spot in the suicide story is that children and young adults who kill themselves usually don't feel much suicide guilt. This is true, too, of the very old and the terminally ill: they feel little or no guilt. But even if you are unlikely to feel guilty after your death, suicide is never the answer. Elisabeth Kubler-Ross, the illustrious author of On Death and Dying, suffered a lingering terminal illness and railed at God for making her stay here so long. But then after she graduated, she told her family that her long decline had actually been a wonderful set of lessons and she was so glad she hadn't cut it short!

    This brief lifetime is only a bad day in school. Even without your suicide, it will soon be over! Whatever difficulties you had planned into this lifetime are just the harder parts of your lesson-plan, and in persevering at them you will learn and grow and perhaps spare yourself countless other lifetimes.

    WWE LOVER New Member

    Thanks for posting this Roberta.

    Rizwan had mentioned to me the irony of suicide, how we can kill ourselves and then want to come back and stuggle all over again.

    I don't know if Rizwan ended up in the outer darkness or what is happening to him at this point, which is why I hope Mikey can make contact with him and find out. Carol has graciously asked Mikey about it, and will keep us apprised.

    I will eventually be posting a thread on some of my own issues, and my similarities to Rizwan. Maybe we can teach each other some things.
  3. poeticblue

    poeticblue member

    Please correct me if I'm wrong but I was told that Identity committed suicide?? I went from having a raging appetite for a meatball sub to total sickness in the pit of my stomach. I feel like I am about to cry. This is just too much.

    This is part of the reason why I try not to stay on this forum as much anymore because all this talk of the afterlife and how wonderful it is while here we are stuck in this pile of sh*t. Say what you want but earthlife is not just a blink of an eye in my opinion. Its long and miserable. I guess the reason why I am being so negetive right now is cause it breaks my heart that our dear friend who was filled with so much wisdom chose not to continue on... I feel like I have to leave work right now because I am about to cry.

    I hope Identity is safe and that he chose to forgive himself. He deserves every last bit of the summerlands. I hope he made it. I just feel so sick right now.
  4. Richard

    Richard Active Member

    Roberta, thanks for the post. If is a sad fact that this wonderful website will some times attrack people who are feeling curious about suicide. We should try to post some information, such as suicide hotlines and informational websites regarding suicide provention. I think, and this is my own opinion, after fairly recently spending the night with a friend who was considering suicide, that they think there is no end to there pain and no one cares. The truth is on course, most things pass, live will get better, and people do care. Sometimes suicide is an impulsive act, and I have read that people who survive suicide attempts are glad that they failed. Sometimes just talking to someone can prevent a suicide.
    Harmonica likes this.
  5. Andrew

    Andrew Guest

    Great idea, Richard! I'm going to look into this and see if I can compile a list of reliable anti-suicide sources. If you know of any, please send them to me in a private message. Thank you!
  6. Truth seeker

    Truth seeker Established Member

  7. Andrew

    Andrew Guest


    WWE LOVER New Member

    Ah, didn't know you were a fellow wrestling fan. I also didn't know that Tommy Dreamer was in the writing business.

    There are a few former NFL players who died the same way as Junior Seau. I'm sure he was feeling despair, but the concussions may have played a part as well.

    As for Chris Benoit, they had said that he suffered dementia and had the brain of an 85-year-old man. Watching him wrestle over the years, it would be easy to see how he could develop dementia due to his concussions. But unlike Seau, he killed others too. Not sure how all of this would fit into a person't life - that being a murder-suicide as a result of mental disease.

    Both guys were great in their respective sports though.
  9. ilovelearninhg

    ilovelearninhg Regular Contributor

    Thank you, Truth seeker for posting this, it was interesting to read. My husband is a huge wrestling fan-he is in his fifties and has liked wrestling since he was very young. My younger son loves wrestling too and has a lot of the figurines. I remember the Chris Benoit thing; it was such a tragedy. WWE lover, I didn't know about him having the brain of an 85 year old man. Wow. Wasn't Nancy the lady that Rick Flair used to walk to the ring with, and he called her "woman?" He was so right on many things in this article. When you're young you can't see past the pain, but it will pass. I could relate to when he thought about taking aspirin to overdose. When I was in the fifth grade I was bullied horrendously(vicious verbal bullying by most of the class that frankly made me feel like the scum on someone's shoe). But I got through it. There was aspirin on the counter and I thought about taking all the aspirin but was too scared and part of me knew that life needs to be played out, that deep down it would not solve anything. Later on I had few experiences to show that I was not the worthless person they made me out to be. To be honest I've not forgiven them and have no desire to do so. If that holds me back spiritually so be it. When I feel despair the best way I've found to get through it is to take each moment, realize you are living through it, pain and all, and know you can go on, and things will get better.
    Last edited: May 10, 2012

    WWE LOVER New Member

    Yes, Chris Benoit's wife Nancy was in WCW, and was a valet for Ric Flair. She went by the name of "Woman." As for Chris, he did a number of high-flying moves in the ring that caused the brain damage.

    I'm still a big wrestling fan after all these years, although it isn't as good as it used to be. I am a big fan of the older days, particularly the heels (bad guys) such as The Million Dollar Man Ted Dibiase, The Honky Tonk Man, Ravishing Rick Rude, Brother Love, and the list goes on. And I've always liked Ric Flair too, along with The Undertaker.
    The characters back then couldn't be beat.

    I have a had time forgiving people for things that happened to me in my past. I have gotten partially there, thanks to the people of this forum. And I haven't forgiven myself for things I have done. Our past affects us, and has left me bitter. That's the human element behind it I suppose, like with you not being able to forgive the bullying from years ago.

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