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Discussion in 'Spiritual Growth & Development' started by RobertaGrimes, May 2, 2012.

  1. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    Some who read early drafts of The Fun of Dying fretted that I had made the afterlife sound so appealing that I would be prompting suicides; so then I added to the book strong cautionary language about the risks of suicide and the difficulties that many suicides face in forgiving themselves. So now - depend upon it! - nearly every time I speak, some older set of parents or a frail-looking sister will come up to me afterward and say that their beloved child or brother killed himself, and after having read The Fun of Dying they fear now that he is in the outer darkness, and how can they help him?

    We cannot win! Dear friends, we are in a box. There is no way to simultaneously comfort the innocent relatives of suicides while at the same time we sternly shake potential suicides by the shoulders and try to dissuade them. After losing our beloved friend Identity, some here thought that we ought to post a thread to try to dissuade visitors from killing themselves, and I have volunteered to begin one. But I am having trouble being as blunt as I would like to be. all those sorrowful parents and waifish sisters are too much on my mind.

    Dear much-beloved friends, self-murder is the ultimate act of selfishness. Don't do it. There can be no reason good enough to bring that kind of suffering upon those who love you - not just the pain of your loss, but also the agony of guilt that they didn't see it coming and they didn't prevent it. If you find the notion of maybe taking your life at all appealing, here are some thoughts for you to ponder:

    1) It is impossible to kill yourself. You are eternal! Killing off your body only deprives you of the means to improve your situation, but it doesn't solve anything. As I have told several suicidal folks, suicide solves nothing! The problem with killing yourself is that it is impossible for you to die.

    2) You will have to witness the suffering of your loved ones at your death. Whatever is making you feel glum enough to think about taking your own life, it cannot possibly be as bad as having to watch those you love as they deal with the aftermath of what you have done.

    3) You may have trouble forgiving yourself. Those who cannot forgive themselves for things that they did in life will condemn themselves to the miserable outer darkness level of the afterlife. And they may be there for quite a long while before rescuers manage to get their attention. Far from enjoying the Summerland after death, the risk is considerable that you might be consigning yourself to eons of misery.

    4) You will almost certainly come back and repeat all the same lessons that led you to commit suicide in the first place. This comes up over and over again in the afterlife literature. Those who kill themselves will promptly plan a new lifetime in which all the stumbling-blocks of the old one come up again, although now they are worse. Did you have financial troubles in this life? In the next, you will be a pauper. Marital troubles? In the next, you will find yourself divorced and abandoned multiple times. And so on and on - you will plan to make that next life all the harder in your zeal to learn these lessons once and for all. Or so the evidence tells us. So if you are going to have to face and learn from these lessons anyway, then why not do it now? Why not just get it over with?

    - About the only bright spot in the suicide story is that children and young adults who kill themselves usually don't feel much suicide guilt. This is true, too, of the very old and the terminally ill: they feel little or no guilt. But even if you are unlikely to feel guilty after your death, suicide is never the answer. Elisabeth Kubler-Ross, the illustrious author of On Death and Dying, suffered a lingering terminal illness and railed at God for making her stay here so long. But then after she graduated, she told her family that her long decline had actually been a wonderful set of lessons and she was so glad she hadn't cut it short!

    This brief lifetime is only a bad day in school. Even without your suicide, it will soon be over! Whatever difficulties you had planned into this lifetime are just the harder parts of your lesson-plan, and in persevering at them you will learn and grow and perhaps spare yourself countless other lifetimes.
  2. Thanks for posting this Roberta.

    Rizwan had mentioned to me the irony of suicide, how we can kill ourselves and then want to come back and stuggle all over again.

    I don't know if Rizwan ended up in the outer darkness or what is happening to him at this point, which is why I hope Mikey can make contact with him and find out. Carol has graciously asked Mikey about it, and will keep us apprised.

    I will eventually be posting a thread on some of my own issues, and my similarities to Rizwan. Maybe we can teach each other some things.
  3. poeticblue

    poeticblue Moderator

    Please correct me if I'm wrong but I was told that Identity committed suicide?? I went from having a raging appetite for a meatball sub to total sickness in the pit of my stomach. I feel like I am about to cry. This is just too much.

    This is part of the reason why I try not to stay on this forum as much anymore because all this talk of the afterlife and how wonderful it is while here we are stuck in this pile of sh*t. Say what you want but earthlife is not just a blink of an eye in my opinion. Its long and miserable. I guess the reason why I am being so negetive right now is cause it breaks my heart that our dear friend who was filled with so much wisdom chose not to continue on... I feel like I have to leave work right now because I am about to cry.

    I hope Identity is safe and that he chose to forgive himself. He deserves every last bit of the summerlands. I hope he made it. I just feel so sick right now.
  4. Roberta, thanks for the post. If is a sad fact that this wonderful website will some times attrack people who are feeling curious about suicide. We should try to post some information, such as suicide hotlines and informational websites regarding suicide provention. I think, and this is my own opinion, after fairly recently spending the night with a friend who was considering suicide, that they think there is no end to there pain and no one cares. The truth is on course, most things pass, live will get better, and people do care. Sometimes suicide is an impulsive act, and I have read that people who survive suicide attempts are glad that they failed. Sometimes just talking to someone can prevent a suicide.
    Harmonica likes this.
  5. Andrew

    Andrew Guest

    Great idea, Richard! I'm going to look into this and see if I can compile a list of reliable anti-suicide sources. If you know of any, please send them to me in a private message. Thank you!
  6. Truth seeker

    Truth seeker Member

  7. Andrew

    Andrew Guest

  8. Ah, didn't know you were a fellow wrestling fan. I also didn't know that Tommy Dreamer was in the writing business.

    There are a few former NFL players who died the same way as Junior Seau. I'm sure he was feeling despair, but the concussions may have played a part as well.

    As for Chris Benoit, they had said that he suffered dementia and had the brain of an 85-year-old man. Watching him wrestle over the years, it would be easy to see how he could develop dementia due to his concussions. But unlike Seau, he killed others too. Not sure how all of this would fit into a person't life - that being a murder-suicide as a result of mental disease.

    Both guys were great in their respective sports though.
  9. Thank you, Truth seeker for posting this, it was interesting to read. My husband is a huge wrestling fan-he is in his fifties and has liked wrestling since he was very young. My younger son loves wrestling too and has a lot of the figurines. I remember the Chris Benoit thing; it was such a tragedy. WWE lover, I didn't know about him having the brain of an 85 year old man. Wow. Wasn't Nancy the lady that Rick Flair used to walk to the ring with, and he called her "woman?" He was so right on many things in this article. When you're young you can't see past the pain, but it will pass. I could relate to when he thought about taking aspirin to overdose. When I was in the fifth grade I was bullied horrendously(vicious verbal bullying by most of the class that frankly made me feel like the scum on someone's shoe). But I got through it. There was aspirin on the counter and I thought about taking all the aspirin but was too scared and part of me knew that life needs to be played out, that deep down it would not solve anything. Later on I had few experiences to show that I was not the worthless person they made me out to be. To be honest I've not forgiven them and have no desire to do so. If that holds me back spiritually so be it. When I feel despair the best way I've found to get through it is to take each moment, realize you are living through it, pain and all, and know you can go on, and things will get better.
    Last edited: May 10, 2012
  10. Yes, Chris Benoit's wife Nancy was in WCW, and was a valet for Ric Flair. She went by the name of "Woman." As for Chris, he did a number of high-flying moves in the ring that caused the brain damage.

    I'm still a big wrestling fan after all these years, although it isn't as good as it used to be. I am a big fan of the older days, particularly the heels (bad guys) such as The Million Dollar Man Ted Dibiase, The Honky Tonk Man, Ravishing Rick Rude, Brother Love, and the list goes on. And I've always liked Ric Flair too, along with The Undertaker.
    The characters back then couldn't be beat.

    I have a had time forgiving people for things that happened to me in my past. I have gotten partially there, thanks to the people of this forum. And I haven't forgiven myself for things I have done. Our past affects us, and has left me bitter. That's the human element behind it I suppose, like with you not being able to forgive the bullying from years ago.
  11. Truth seeker

    Truth seeker Member

    Im Mexican so its natural that I am a wrestling fan, I have been following the WWF-WWE since I was 5 years old , I use to watch Undertaker,Hulk Hogan,Macho Man, I hava pictures taken with X-Pac,La parka and some others hehe

    Back in the afterlife topics, the life of wrestler Mark Henry the strongest man in the world talks about that and about self superation,check it out:

  12. Thanks for posting. Never heard of him talking to his deceased mother, despite the fact that he is a nice guy who is a lot nicer than his kayfabe character.
  13. poeticblue

    poeticblue Moderator

    I have always gotten the strange eerrie feeling that I myself have committed suicide in a past life. I have always thought about this even way before I even started researching the afterlife. The events that have happend in my life this time around is far too laid out perfectly to prevent me from killing myself, so much that I feel that I must have done it in a past life and I needed to prevent it in this life. Forget about how my life has been laid out this time around. I just plain know that I have killed myself before. The wounds remain buried deep within myself. The scars are not visible but they are there. Everytime even a hint of suicide pops in my mind I think to myself "No don't you dare do this again". I keep thinking to myself "Keep going. Keep pushing forward". I was surfing the internet on suicide and spirituality, and this describes pretty well what I've been thinking. This is a blog entry from a person named Ashe. She/he talks about the meaning of life and then they go on to talk about suicide.

    "The Summerland and What Happens in the Afterlife"

    As for the whole "I just want to end it all...my life is worth nothing" here is what you are doing when you commit suicide. You are taking a spear and breaking it off in your leg. The wound is there and the tip of the spear beneath it, when you commit suicide all you are doing is sewing up that wound with the spear inside. Your body dies but your soul goes to its "heaven" or whatever you want to call it. Your soul is thinking..."Darn it I went down to learn how to look for the good even when things seem like they are not going good!" So all you did was just waste a chance to learn. Once more when your rebirth comes you have all this negative energy because you didnt heal yourself (fix whatever you where reborn to fix about yourself) All you did was cover up a wound. We have faint feelings and memories and we dont know where they come from. So I have met many people who have said that they think they have killed themselves in a past life and something inside them (that wound) warns them against it. Most of these people learn to overcome the negative energy that comes from suicide from helping other people and to them its like healing the wound. Others repeat their mistake and are not getting any father in figuring out what they came to figure out.

    So dont kill yourself...its not smart...im sure it hurts...and why would you want to waste your own time when you have to come back and try to learn the same lesson a second time?

    This explains me to a T. I grew up screwed up in my own emotions that I went to school to become a counselor wanting to help other people thinking that if I did, I would feel like a better person. I feel like I owe some kind of debt. And you know what? I do feel like a better person when I help other people and it makes me continue to want to continue with life.

    Here is the link to the full blog so it won't seem like I'm copying or making this up: http://everythingunderthemoon.net/forum/the-summerland-what-happens-the-afterlife-t9075.html
  14. I've been screwed up for a long time myself. I remember a suicide attempt for a few months ago, and I didn't think to myself, "Keep pushing. Keep going forward. Don't kill yourself." It just seemed so much like the right thing to do.
  15. poeticblue

    poeticblue Moderator

    We need to keep pushing and get this life over with my friend. Your exit point could be tomorow and if you kill yourself today you would feel pretty stupid about it :p (Not saying you are going to)

    Even though I get the sickley feeling I am going to live to be 90 years old, once this is all over I will never come back. I think I will continue my growth in the afterlife helping suicide victims level up or something. Or become a spirit guide (which I read can be harder than living an earth life) but hell at least I can be in heaven and earth at the same time lol.

    I'll PM you.
  16. Yeah, I think I will live to 90 as well, just to be miserable for a long time.

    And maybe I can help a few people along the way too.
  17. Never commit suicide

    I had suicide thoughts when I was in my thirties. Someone then brought by attention on the book 'The Cycle of the Soul' by Jozef Rulof. It is the story of a man who committed suicide and what happened to him after that.
    Rulof was a medium and that man was given the opportunity to write that book through him.

    I found it very interesting to read about what happens to you if you commit suicide. If you have such thoughts it's very handy to know what you can expect if you do that.
    Well, it cured my suicide thoughts completely. Committing suicide is the worst thing you can do.
    In short, if you do that your astral body will stay stuck through the astral cord to the physical body and you cannot go anywhere. You have to undergo the decay and rotting of the physical body. You will feel everything that happens to the physical body as like you were still in it.
    Complete disaster would strike you if you would have chosen to cremate yourself. You will endure the pain as if you were burnt alive.

    I'm sorry this sounds pretty horrible, but I cannot make it any prettier then it is.
    The book itself is also a very interesting story of the working of karma.

    The language in that book was very direct and straight forward. When I started reading it I immediately knew this was the stuff I had been looking for. This was the story of a man who knew what he was talking about.
    After reading that book I started reading the other books of Jozef Rulof. It brought me the knowledge of the afterlife that I had been looking for.
  18. I'm not familiar with this story, and it sounds downright horrifying.

    Did you check out the thread I created in honour of Rizwan? He posted here under the name Identity. He committed suicide and did not experience this kind of fate.
  19. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    It's good to learn that you no longer have the desire to end your life but the account you've quoted here isn't in line with what's been taught.

    I guess there are many beliefs and some undoubtedly contain elements of the truth but it's better, I suggest, to get a broader perspective on this and other related issues before reaching firm conclusions. This one account isn't really authoritative.....
  20. Rulofs legacy contains 27 books totalling over 11,000 pages today.
    He was an instrument for the Masters of Light from the Afterlife.
    He did not write any of the books himself. Masters of Light from the Afterlife wrote through his organism by using the typewriter machine.

    I have read most of his books and my view on the afterlife and other related issues have given me a much broader perspective then I ever imagined.

    If you call this account not really authorative I would like to know what is authorative in your opinion.

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