1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Afterlife Forums is an online, interactive community designed to give seekers direct access to prominent researchers, to afterlife literature, and to one another in order to foster both spiritual growth and public interest in life after death.

Steve's ponderings

Discussion in 'General Afterlife Discussions' started by STEVEN LEVEE, Feb 10, 2018.

  1. genewardsmith

    genewardsmith Active Member

    It would be interesting to hear precisely why their belief in God disappeared.
     
  2. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    I think I understood the point you were making but you went on to other points too. I responded to several of the points you made, including the one about London which occasioned my response about their experience not painting much of a picture.

    It wasn't a matter of not being much of a picture for me because I don't have any need for such a picture - it was a general observation about the situation.

    As for an experience turning their personal belief in God upside down well that was just their personal belief.... I have no idea what formulated their belief for a god in the first place to later be reversed by the experience of an NDE. Mildly interesting for me but no more than that.

    For completeness I don't believe in God - I am certain it's the case there is one of some sort.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2018
  3. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    It would be equally interesting, for comparison, to hear what led initially to their subsequently-lost belief in God. ;) religion presumably - hardly a sound basis for understanding
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
  4. Amore

    Amore Active Member

    You would have to start reading those NDE reports, some of them explain in more detail what led to their change in belief.
     
  5. bluebird

    bluebird Well-Known Member

    Seconded.
     
  6. genewardsmith

    genewardsmith Active Member

    Searching for "lost faith in God" at nderf makes me think this must be pretty rare as a consequence of an NDE. I did find one woman who was mad at God since she survived.
     
  7. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    Just for interest, how many 'lost faith' cases did you find?
     
  8. ravensgate

    ravensgate Active Member

    I think the woman who was mad at god because she survived might have felt that way because in her visit to her eternal home she felt acceptance, peace, love, freedom from the earthly burdens... why return to the (possible) trials and tribulations of her earthly journey?
    About the "lost faith", perhaps the experiencers meant they lost the faith they grew up with. For example, a Catholic or Baptist raised to believe in a judging god, in eternal damnation if you didn't follow the (man-made) rules, realizes that hell does not exist, that god is more a force than a singular entity, and not one who sits on a throne judging you and discarding you into the abyss.
    Of course, this simply is my own take on the woman's anger at god and the loss of faith of many NDEers :-/
     
  9. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    Re your second paragraph, I consider that's fair and would be a persuasive argument were it to be the actual case. Losing your belief in a God the way it was taught by your religion might leave you feeling adrift from all you thought you knew and understood. Experiencing that loss as a direct consequence of a traumatic NDE must be life changing if not life threatening. And such a life-changing outcome might be a huge challenge for anyone. I don't know because I haven't lived through such events to know but it would make sense for me.
     
  10. Cute Bear

    Cute Bear Banned

    Cute Bear said:
    define "Atheist"

    Robert Flint, in his 1885 book Anti-Theistic Theories states: “Every man is an atheist who does not believe that there is a God.”

    Strong Atheism
    The strong atheist, also known as an explicit atheist or a positive atheist, denies the existence of God or any other deities. This person’s views are based solely on what can be found to be true using the scientific method. Since the existence of God cannot be proven using science, the strong atheist concludes that God doesn’t exist.

    Weak Atheism
    The second type of atheist is the weak atheist, also known as an implicit atheist or a negative atheist. This person does not deny the existence of God outright, but rather claims a religious relativism. That is, she would claim that anyone’s belief can be true for that person, but she doesn’t believe in God herself.

    https://www.allaboutphilosophy.org/what-is-an-atheist-faq.htm
     
  11. Cute Bear

    Cute Bear Banned

  12. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    over analysing?

    I wonder if Steve's and his friend's potentially-different understandings come from one having studied work published well over a century ago and the other not having done?
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2018
  13. genewardsmith

    genewardsmith Active Member

    None, but I may undertake a longer search. There were people who don't believe in God, but who believe in a spiritual power which sounds like God to me; I don't plan on counting that.
     
  14. Cute Bear

    Cute Bear Banned

    No validating my statement that "Dictionaries do not define individual expressions of a word" and fluidly demonstrating that asking an individual to define "atheist" is an entirely reasonable and well-tempered request.
     
    pandora97 likes this.
  15. STEVEN LEVEE

    STEVEN LEVEE Member

    There's no doubt I have researched alot more than he has Mac...& have alot more first hand/hands on experiences/evidence than him...
    We spoke the other day & I totally see where he's coming from...not that it's right or wrong...just his view.
    He has gone to a couple of mediums & his father has come through quite clearly to him. He does believe that we are spirit...He just says he doesn't believe in a "Great Spirit." I called him a fool...we both laughed...it's all good:)!
     
  16. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    It's good you have embraced your different approaches and remain friends. :)
     
  17. Amore

    Amore Active Member

    Well if she was mad at God she still believed in him, right?

    Probably the search term you used brought up this report because she used those exact words?

    In the questionnaire are multiple choice questions regarding religion and the belief in God before and after the NDE. For many people this changed. Some started to believe in God after their NDE, others stopped. Some say they don't know. It's very interesting how differently people react to such an experience.
     
  18. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    true that! :)
     
  19. Luizcarlos

    Luizcarlos New Member

    I'd like to offer my opinion even though I may be entirely incorrect. I am participating in this forum because I believe I have a lot to learn and think there are a lot of people out there who have good insights to offer. So whatever I say here I hope not to offend anyone, for it is not my intention.

    I ask myself, what is the meaning of Atheism because I fall in the category of an atheist even though I would rather call myself a thinker?

    The main definition of atheism is a disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods, right?
    And what is the meaning of belief? An acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists. But more precisely, BELIEF is the acceptance of something because we have put no personal effort to gather the facts, to learn. When you have the facts it turns into knowledge instead of belief. So in that sense, an atheist is NO different than a believer.

    What is God anyways?
    So many people talk about a God as though they know God or as though God is an Individual.
    I look in Nature and I see manifestation of Intelligence. Is Intelligence God? I have the ability to think and reason. Is Mind God?
    The truth of the matter is that NO one knows what God is, if there is such a thing. Humans, in this mortal existence as well as in the afterlife, have the proclivity to religionize things they don't understand.

    I don't claim to know HOW life (the universe) came into existence. I totally ignore both science and religion in that regards. I think we can live a billion years and never know and whatever one says in that regards is simply speculation and/or belief. What we think the truth is today we may see it entirely different one hundred years later.

    I think LIFE is about EXPERIENCE. Have you ever gotten an electric shock? If you have, you have the experience, the knowledge of what it feels like to get an electric shock. Others may know about it, believe it, but lack the knowledge, the experience.

    Can we believe in the afterlife?
    I think my point is that it makes no difference if you believe or not believe, if you are an atheist or not.
    We can believe as much as wish in this thing we call the afterlife. I personally DON'T believe in the afterlife. I ACCEPT the possibility of life after death because it makes perfect sense to me, because it is logical to me; I accept it based on personal experience, the experience of others and because I have put the effort into researching everything possible about it.

    Do I believe in God?

    Not I DON'T, (at least not in this religious, anthropomorphic God that most people talk about) but I accept that there is a creative force; an Intelligence that governs life.
    I look at myself in the mirror and I see Perfection, Intelligence. I look at my dogs and I see perfection and Intelligence, therefore there must be a great mind behind all this wonderful world; what that is, I don't know and I would rather not religionize about it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2018
  20. STEVEN LEVEE

    STEVEN LEVEE Member

    Hi Luiz,
    You have the right idea (IMO, it's always IMO understood) about the creative intellingent force that governs all nature...add all loving in there & you have it. the Source of all existence/life...that's it...NOT a person...WE are not people...we are spirit...the source is not a person, it is the GREAT SPIRIT...we are all part of it...We are all little gods/spirits walking around on the physical plane...IF you believe that, then you do believe in god. Religion has NOTHING to do with it. I've heard Jesus himself say (through a transe medium) that he never wanted a religion made about him. That religions are all very beautiful and also very flawed. He says that natural law is the thing. And I gotta agree with him:)!
     
    pandora97 likes this.
  21. pandora97

    pandora97 Active Member

    :D
     

Share This Page