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Steve's ponderings

Discussion in 'General Afterlife Discussions' started by STEVEN LEVEE, Feb 10, 2018.

  1. STEVEN LEVEE

    STEVEN LEVEE Member

    Hi Everyone. I am new to the site but not to the knowledge of the afterlife. I have a dilemma that I would like to hear other (like thinking) peoples' opinions on.
    I have a good friend who I have had a disagreement with over an interesting point. I have been open with him about my beliefs since I had my awakening to spirit about 14 years ago. He always acted fascinated when I'd tell him about my various sittings with mediums both mental and physical & other spiritual ceremonies I have attended. He has now even had some positive experiences himself with a couple of mediums.
    I have noticed over the years that he refers to himself on Facebook as an atheist. The last time he called me to hear about my recent experience...I ignored him for about a month before finally telling him that I didn't call him back to talk about my reading because I think he's a hypocrite and just didn't really want to discuss it with him. I don't see how he can believe what I have related to him & what he has actually now seen for himself, and NOT believe in god?
    I have explained to him that the creative/loving/intelligent source of life is god...not a person or any deity that religions have been written about. That without it there would be no life...just like a light-bulb is dead without the electricity to light it up. This is glaringly obvious to me...
    Anyway, I seek other peoples opinions on this. Can we believe in the afterlife/spirit/communication/etc...and still be Atheist?
    Thanks in advance for your input:)
    Steve
     
  2. bluebird

    bluebird Well-Known Member

    "Can we believe in the afterlife/spirit/communication/etc...and still be Atheist?"

    Yes, absolutely. Belief in a god/deity is not necessary in order to believe in an afterlife. Now, belief in one is often accompanied by belief in the other, but there are also plenty of people who believe in the existence of an afterlife but not in the existence of a god/deity.

    It is quite possible that your friend is an atheist who believes in the existence of some sort of afterlife.
     
    enby and Obiwan like this.
  3. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    If folk accept survival and the so-called afterlife they can be an atheist or anything else they wish as far as I'm concerned. It wouldn't matter a jot to me - for me the former is much more important than the latter..

    Like bluebird I see no difficulty in accepting there's an afterlife without believing in a god even though that's not my personal approach. And maybe in time his acceptance of the one will lead to a different perspective of the other; maybe in time he'll come to accept that one without the other makes little sense. And maybe not but I'd hate for a difference of approach about God to sour a friendship.

    That he's interested enough to contact you to ask about some recent experience suggests (edit) to me he's a person who cares and not a hypocrite. :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2018
    Obiwan likes this.
  4. pandora97

    pandora97 Active Member

    May I ask how your friend replied to you calling him a hypocrite?
     
  5. bluebird

    bluebird Well-Known Member

    Agreed.
     
  6. Cute Bear

    Cute Bear Banned

    define.
     
    pandora97 likes this.
  7. pandora97

    pandora97 Active Member



    My thought exactly! Perhaps you and your friend have a different understanding of "atheist"?
     
    Cute Bear likes this.
  8. STEVEN LEVEE

    STEVEN LEVEE Member

    Well...he didn't react well to being called a hypocrite...Probably was the wrong word to use... In the end I said you are free to believe whatever you like...however contradictory it is...and I will accept it. We are still friends... I don't have to be or even know that I am right about it...just looking for other people's opinions. Like...how the heck do you believe we're eternal souls but not think there's a higher power?
     
  9. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    About many things I can scarcely believe that others hold a particular belief!

    Folk rarely fail to amaze... ;):)
     
  10. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    why? Any dictionary can offer a definition.
     
  11. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    That's good to hear.
     
  12. bluebird

    bluebird Well-Known Member

    It's good the two of you are still friends.

    As for your question -- personally, I am agnostic on both (all three, actually) counts. I don't know if we are eternal souls, I don't know if an afterlife exists, and I don't know if there's a god. However, while I acknowledge that it's possible that humanity, the Earth, the universe, etc., was created by a god, I do not assume that there must be a creator. I see no proof of such a being/force, hence my agnosticism.
     
  13. STEVEN LEVEE

    STEVEN LEVEE Member

    Hi Blue,
    It is everyone's individual journey...I always need to remember that...Not my job to convince anyone.
    To you I say...go read "Voices in the Dark" (Leslie Flint's bio) so you know the story behind the medium. Then, go listen to the actual voices of spirits on the other side & what they have to say (Leslie Flint Trust recordings...now on YouTube)...Then draw your own conclusions. It's either all a hoax (no way) or it is factual...
    After him, read Arthur Findlay's "On the Edge of the Etheric" & then his literal translations of spirit encounters called "Where Two Worlds Meet"(very similar to Leslie's...the same really) with John Sloan as the medium...In both cases you can either think these were a huge hoax which would be a total waste of time for everybody or factual & something that really occurred & shows evidence/proof for the afterlife...
    Of course these are 2 of many...Just happen to be my favorite 2.
    Also, I think both the above mentioned books are available free online in PDF form...
    Steve
     
  14. bluebird

    bluebird Well-Known Member

    Steve,

    Thanks for the book recommendations; I may look into them.

    I do think that sometimes people/mediums may genuinely believe they are communicating with the dead, when they may not be. I'm not saying this is the case with either Leslie Flint or John Sloan, as while I have heard Flint's name I am really not familiar with the work of either person; I'm just saying that it's not true that the only two possibilities are (1) hoax, or (2) proof. Sometimes people truly believe in what they are doing, yet they can still be wrong.

    In any case, I know that for myself the only sufficient proof of an afterlife will come from my husband, if he still exists (in an afterlife). No one else's account, no matter how well conveyed, would be proof to me, though I might find the accounts/books interesting. But I know that's not the case for everyone else.
     
  15. MauiNui

    MauiNui New Member

    Steven, it seems that your feelings are rooted in a bit of anxiety. Be mindful of when you're at the biological/emotional or intellectual levels of your awareness (where things like frustration live). In these levels of awareness feelings of conflict are bound to arise, especially if you dwell. If you're mindful of this, you'll be able to dismiss them as just gusts in a storm.

    Once you get back to the spiritual level of your awareness (many ways to do that), you'll come to peace with your friend. Obviously, we can best trust this level for clarity. Remember, it's all good and when it feels otherwise, you've probably drifted back down in awareness. As we do.

    MHO
     
    Amore likes this.
  16. MauiNui

    MauiNui New Member

    Blue, I hear what you're saying. I wish I could share my own NDE and somehow transmit the kind of certainty one is left with. You're right to recognize what you don't know directly. Frankly, I don't know how anyone navigates this stuff without a guiding experience. This is indeed a world of dreams and illusions so it's certainly best to be selective with what you take in.

    I'm not sure its important to know everything. If you're not in fear of death; know that your dearly departed are with you in your spirit awareness; and live life with energy and enthusiasm, you're pretty much doing it all. The rest will come when it comes.

     
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  17. genewardsmith

    genewardsmith Active Member

    In a case like Flint or Sloan, mere belief will not suffice. And if you listen to the extensive Flint recordings, there are cases where it is difficult to see how a fake could be produced. I think I may discuss the Bobby Tracey recording from that point of view, asking if it was a hoax, how was it produced?
     
  18. bluebird

    bluebird Well-Known Member

    Thanks MauiNui. I wish that your certainty (and/or anyone else's) could be transmitted to me as well, but it just doesn't work that way. The thing is, I have had things happen that may very well be signs from my husband, but I don't know for sure, and I can't just assume that they are signs from him when they may just be wishful thinking on my part. I hope, more than anything, that my husband still exists in an afterlife, that he is happy and well, that he is still himself, and that he & I will be together again. That is so important to me, and I can't just "choose" to believe that it is the case, I need proof (I'm not saying you're saying I can choose to believe, I'm just saying this in general).
     
    Amore likes this.
  19. bluebird

    bluebird Well-Known Member

    Sorry, but what do you mean when you say that "In a case like Flint or Sloan, mere belief will not suffice."?
     
  20. genewardsmith

    genewardsmith Active Member

    You can't produce a voice on a tape just by belief; there needs to be an actual sound.
     

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