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Spiritual Healing

Discussion in 'Spiritual Growth & Development' started by Celera, Sep 14, 2013.

  1. I started this as a response to other posts in the "Questions for Carol and Mikey" thread, but it seems like it's own topic.

    Spiritual healing of all sorts has always been a difficult subject for me. I have tried to make sense of it, but the logical part of my brain still struggles with it. This was true when I went to Evangelical and Pentecostal churches where people prayed for healing, either in a general sort of way or when people claimed to have a particular gift for healing such as Oral Roberts (in the old days) or Katherine Kuhlman, to name more famous examples.

    On the pro-spiritual healing side, I note that "modern medicine" doesn't always work either. Cancers go into remission in people who have received chemotherapy, who have been prayed for, or both, or in people who were just waiting to die and for no apparent reason get better. I'm sure studies exist of the relative frequency of remission in these scenarios, but anything works sometimes and nothing works every time.

    There are certain kinds of ailments that are more responsive to spiritual healing than others. I've heard of (and seen) people say that they are/were healed of hearing loss, or some vision loss, or of cancer or some degree of paralysis. Lots of people are healed of headaches and digestive troubles. Nobody ever seems to have a broken leg mended on the spot, though. This leads to a reasonable conclusion that spiritual healing only provides inspiration and perhaps some greater resistance to pain and heightened awareness, all of which might make even a healthy person suddenly hear or see more acutely. It can surely allow the wheelchair bound, in many cases, to take a few shaky steps. Such inspiration could certainly put an end, at least temporarily to headaches and stomach aches of many sorts.

    Katherine Kuhlman (a fascinating person whether you believed in her "gift" or not) once responded to this objection by saying that if someone is troubled with headaches for years, and are not helped by medicine or any ordinary source of inspiration, and then suddenly they get better, isn't that still kind of a miracle? Isn't a placebo real medicine if it works? (Many doctors would say that it is.)

    The thing that I have the most trouble with though, (and I don't mean this as a criticism of anything anyone has said) is, "well, if it didn't work then it was meant to be." This seems a bit like a cop-out in a way -- if I tried that at work, it wouldn't be very successful. (Well, I failed to meet that deadline, so it wasn't meant to be...)

    If the illness can't be cured because it is God's will or your life plan or whatever, then it will happen no matter what. If the illness is cured because it wasn't meant to be, then wouldn't it have been cured anyway? So what is the point of all this spiritual healing?

    I'm not trying to challenge anyone's beliefs or make light of anything, it's just a difficult topic for me to reconcile with reason.
     
  2. hopeful

    hopeful New Member

    In my opinion, unless one is highly elevated spirit like Jesus, the claims are based upon;

    One sided thinking; noticing & looking for only what confirms to one's beliefs, ignoring what does not meet their belief system..

    Community reinforcement; a claim becomes a strong belief through repeated assertion by members of a community without proper research. And help from media who support the claims for their ratings

    Placebo effect ,

    Fallacy and

    Wishful thinking; Donkeys may fly if you pray over them long enough.

    I have never heard or seen anyone whose malignant cancer (lung, liver, pancreatic, prostrate or metastatic) is eradicated only through a spiritual healer. All healers tell the patients to keep following the medical treatment. Some people claim that their leukemia cancer is cured. This cancer is 95% curable with Chemotherapy. For propaganda sake they skip the mention of chemo or radiation therapy. Some have benign non cancerous tumor that never develop in malignant cancer but they sing the praises.

    Above is my personal opinion in relation to the heelers who claim that spirits of doctors and surgeons help the heeler to perform spiritual surgeries and media and masses follow them.
     
  3. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    Dear friends, I think that spiritual healing is all more or less in your point of view. From my perspective, I have come to understand and be comfortable with the fact that nothing is solid, and the only reality that exists is spiritual. Our minds create our apparent reality, and the only reason we ever get sick at all is that our minds cause or allow that sickness. I am confident this is true. The only barrier there is to your being able to move a mountain with your mind is that you don't for a minute believe you can do it, so your mind itself blocks its own actions. Recall, whenever Jesus did a healing He first asked whether the person being healed believed that He could do it... So, I have to agree that spiritual healing is rare. But I would add that the only reason it's rare is that we have trouble believing in it ;-)!
     
  4. hopeful

    hopeful New Member

    What? Who on this planet will ever think of or seek to cause the dreadful diseases like Cancer or Chronic like Paralysis, Rheumatoid Arthritis, Macular Degeneration and etc.? If you are correct that mind causes then what about those who suffer so much that they want to die. They think of and manifest all the time. If it was true then there would not be words “Why Me?” and next time when I recite Lord’s Prayer I shall drop the line “Thy will be done”

    Those who seek these helpers have not only belief but also faith. They follow up to whatever they are told such as not to eat meat, drink alcohol, etc. for so many days. Ware White etc. do this or that. So much belief that when doctors tell them they have no remedy they still live in denial and believe that they will survive, until on the death bed, when they are asked they say that they do not believe it anymore.

    I have not heard about it but I have seen it.

    I stand by my opinion expressed in the previous post.
     
  5. bluebird

    bluebird Major Contributor

    Originally Posted by Roberta Grimes:
    only reason we ever get sick at all is that our minds cause or allow that sickness.

    I agree with you, hopeful.
     
  6. william61

    william61 New Member

    I agree with you and Hopeful as well BlueBird. I am sure your husband didn't consciously allow his heart to fail, or my wife when healthy and of sound mind, consciously allow her mental state to deteriorate to the point where she ended her life.
    Similarly with pre planning our future incarnate lives, whilst on the other side, in order to learn more pointless life 'lessons', the knowledge and experience of which, would be quite inapplicable to life 'upstairs'.
    I am very certain that I didn't pre plan to meet a beautiful, wonderful and caring woman, who due to circumstances created by our subsequent union, would fall mentally ill and destroy her life in such a gruesome manner. What sort of monster would that make me, and others like me who have suffered similar tragedy's ?
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2013
  7. bluebird

    bluebird Major Contributor

    Exactly, william. I KNOW that my husband didn't do or allow this on purpose (nor your wife) -- I KNOW that he didn't "pre-plan" this bullshit, this horrible situation, not only on his own behalf, but also on mine. He is the most kind, loving, generous person I've ever met -- not a perfect person, but the guy who would always help anyone in need, with no thought for himself. He would NEVER have willingly left me, the person he loves most, in this hell, nor "planned" some sort of "life chart" which would leave me without him this way. And I certainly never would have, either.

    I can understand how, if there is a heaven, before-life, after-life, whatever, we might come to earth to learn some lessons (I don't necessarily agree that it is our choice to come here, though -- haven't made up my mind on that point). But NOT the "lesson" of pointless death. ALL this has done is kill my husband and destroy my life. There is no "lesson" in that, and definitely no lesson worth learning. All it has taught me, if anything, is that if there's a god s/he's an evil bastard, and that this existence is not a good one.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2013
  8. I posted a response on the other thread. But I refuse to enter into a debate about this or what I do.

    With Lovingkindness (metta),
    vic
     
  9. Carol and Mikey

    Carol and Mikey Golden Hearts

    Hi All,
    Through my experiences in health care, this is what I know. There are some illnesses that can be caused by the mind. They call them "psychosomatic disorders." How they present can be different then an actual similar type presenting illness that I will call "bodily". In these situations, the person truly believes they are ill. All scans and tests will be negative. Their weakness is not consistent with how weakness would present when someone who has had a stroke, for example. We treat them (at least in physical therapy) the same way. Because the person believes they have the illness or disability.
    A bodily illness or disability (cancer, coronary artery disease, diabetes, M.S., mental illness, and so on) is due to many variables. Genetics, environment, exposure to related substances, life stress and situations / accidents, etc. Tests and scans confirm the medical condition of the body. Theses types of illnesses, as tough as they are, give us many of the life lessons and challenges/ experiences we choose to encounter here according to Mikey . This is one of the reasons this dimension is such a challenge. This is what gives us the potential for so much spiritual growth! Being the individual who is ill and being the caregiver is quite the relationship. True test of love and devotion under trying circumstances.
    Bodily illnesses, according to Mikey (and what I know as well) is not necessarily from the mind. However, we can add to our misery. Or, we can work through it and give it our best shot! Do the best we can with the "potential we have."
    So this is our take on this anyway!
    Carol and Mikey "in Spirit"
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2013
  10. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    Dear friends, apparently you believe that when I said that illnesses are causes or supported by our minds I meant that we consciously seek these things. Perhaps sometimes this happens, but generally I don't think so - no, what seems to happen is that our mindset can create an environment where certain physical aspects will manifest themselves. I don't understand this process very well, and I think it is probably extremely complex; but the plain fact is that nothing exists but Mind-energy, our minds are part of Mind, and - as Jesus told us - if we believe anything for certain, then our minds seem to be able to manifest our beliefs. This is true not just of illness, but of so many other things and in so many ways that it would take writing a whole book to cover the field!

    So, no, dear beloved Bluebird and Bill and all others who have lost someone, in saying this I am saying nothing about your particular situations. And this comment isn't about whether we might have planned our life events, either. I am simply saying that Mind-energy is infinitely creative, our minds are part of mind, and our beliefs have the power to manifest changes in our reality. This fact has been demonstrated so many ways that it's one of those things that seems to me now to be beyond doubt! And what it tells us is that thoughts are tools and we must be very careful about what we think and what we believe. But you knew that already, right?
     

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