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So, where is Osama now?

Discussion in 'Afterlife Evidence' started by Cromulent, May 8, 2011.

  1. MarcoAlTanus

    MarcoAlTanus New Member

    Hello Cromulent, I understand your feeling, I know that you think that's unfair, and not only that, that the information we all share here, perhaps it's not 100% correct, but not because it's false, but because there are things we aren't just able to understand, remember we are infinite beings trapped within a finite form, that's one of the main things that bring so much trouble to the world, like the atheism, nihilism and the science vs religion misunderstandings. (Which, the true statement would have been, Science along religion, but people found it troubling to try and connect them because it's just harder, even though it's just the most logical and true one.)

    I believe Osama once free'd from his Hollow heaven, he went to the down levels, dark places where there's this state of being separated from God, and fullfiled by dark emotions, because that's how you actually decided to bend, which is just the definition for Hell, 'cept that I don't believe it's eternal, but note one thing, it could take alot of years (earth-wise, since there is no time there) since one is able to start going up and learning and receiving eternal love (Once you progress, you can't go down, as the Soul has learned and progressed). Once you go through the cycle of redemption, forgive yourself and accept God and His law of Love, and you are able to accept what you did, and if you actually did something bad, and be able to get closer to progress on emotions, this can be done through Divine help from God himself, from other Souls, perhaps a loved one, a higher, 'Divine' Soul from the top levels, a Master, and such.
    I also think there is a law that brings balance, or well, Karma (Law of Compensation), one that most than a punishment, it's something that makes you have redemption and realize what you did wrong, "As you sew so shall you reap" - you can't escape the Law of Compensation. Second, God is Love and He is not the source of sufferings. Rather, He is always ready and waiting to take you into His arms of Love. It is not about punishment.
    Remember God is not a force of nature, nor an essence, He is there as an omniscent, Divine, eternal, full of love and righteousness being, painting him as a raging one that dwells the "baddies" to an eternal punishment wouldn't make much sense, If we can have the will to accept God's love and reflect it upon the world and Himself on the earthrealm, it is so much more vast and complex on the spiritual one, that, since it's our home there, it just works like this and way better there.

    Cheers! :)
     
  2. knight1985

    knight1985 New Member

    So do we have a clue as to what is OBL's spirit upto nw, more precisly on which level is he...1-2 or higher? Roberta? or maybe carol might have an idea?
     
  3. Andrew

    Andrew Guest

    Hi Knight! The problem with telling exactly what is going on right now with OBL's spirit is that there is no real time. As Roberta says about, he likely went straight to a hollow heaven. He could have spent the equivalent of a month there, or the equivalent of a millennium - it just depends on the person. If his guides allow him to go through the life review process once he is past the hollow heaven stage, then he will likely be so remorseful that he will eventually land in Level 1. Then again, he may not go through the life review at all. Sometimes, when a life has been so detrimental that there is no use sending the person through a life review, just so they can face more wasted time in the Outer Darkness. When this happens, the guides of that person will often send them right back to earth to try again. I would say that this could have happened with OBL, but there is no way to be sure (while we're here at least).

    Carol, if you happen to see this, has Mikey heard anything about Osama bin Laden? I know that he had some great information about Hitler, so maybe he knows just where OBL is too?
     
  4. Gypsyblue

    Gypsyblue New Member

    How about Geronimo? Where's he? One man's terrorist is another man's hero. Just depends which "side" you're on. [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2011
  5. knight1985

    knight1985 New Member

    I wonder how do u "teach" someone whos got pre concieved notions about certain things in life. unless u put them through some kind of a memory eraser etc. and if "forgiving" was the main criteria for entry to summerland, who wouldnt do it?
    Personally, i dont know if OBL is dead too, coz we havent found anything to prove it, Hitler is another story, if the Commies didnt, by now nature would have.
     
  6. Carol and Mikey

    Carol and Mikey Golden Hearts

    Heaven is on "God's side" which is all about love. Love is all that matters. If you are not that way, you don't advance your soul.
    Carol and Mikey "in Spirit"
     
  7. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    This is interesting! And it seems sensible to me: Osama's beliefs have exiled him, as in a hollow heaven, and these loving rescuers are trying to get through to him and help him understand the truth, but he is resisting it - that is not surprising. Thanks, dear Carol and Mikey - your insights are wonderful!
     
  8. Andrew

    Andrew Guest

    Once again, dear Carol, your and Mikey's answer is perfect! As Roberta says above, it is sensible that Osama has exiled himself due to his violent beliefs.
     
  9. knight1985

    knight1985 New Member

    If taking lives is evil, which it is, no doubt in that, then G.W Bush is also headed for the same isolation ward as OBL. As Gypsy stated, one person's hero is another person's villain. If taking lives is evil, it is evil...period. No ifs and buts, and no exceptions, off course maybe with the exception of self defense.

    Secondly, for a person as determined as Laden, in his belief, things like love wouldnt change his ideas. Just as my fear seems to have no cure, except for maybe a hard reset, selective amnesia or in his case, total soul memory erasure. And how do i know about his beliefs? We both r from the same part of the world, i know how determined these guys are. Evil, but admirable in a way.
     
  10. Gypsyblue

    Gypsyblue New Member

    I don't admire Osama Bin Laden - I think he behaved like a jerk. But I can see how he became a jerk, and I can't say that I would not have become the same jerk if I'd lived his life.

    I think he was sure that what he was doing was for the benefit of his people.

    Geronimo hated the white settlers who were destroying the Indian way of life and in his hatred committed some acts that were really atrocities. When asked later in life if he had any regrets he said he regretted killing white babies.

    But Geronimo was and is a hero in the eyes of many Native Americans, as Bin Laden is a hero in the eyes of many fundamentalist Muslims.

    The way I see it, hatred and anger was Bin Laden's error or sin...as was Geronimo's. As is mine sometimes.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2011
  11. anonymous

    anonymous New Member

    This post raises a couple of questions in my mind.

    1) It sounds like Osama is being judged, "he will be placed in a very low level". I thought we are not judged, or that we judge ourselves, and that our destination has more to do with natural law, that we naturally gravitate to the level of our own vibration rather than being placed there by judgement. Is that wrong or is Osama a special case?

    2) Osama's love is very low so he will be placed accordingly. This is confusing to me because it doesn't distinguish between his feelings and his actions. Someone might be low in love but by chance, lack of opportunity, or due to ethical values, would not stoop to inciting mass murder. So will my lonely, grumpy neighbor who is low in love go the same low level as Osama?

    I have my own opinions on these question but I am trying to understand Mikey's teachings so I would like to know what Mikey has to say on these subjects.

    Thanks,
     
  12. Carol and Mikey

    Carol and Mikey Golden Hearts

    Anonymous,
    We judge ourselves at our life review. But if "ego influences " remain as we proceed with this review, and we do not see ourselves as doing anything wrong, high loving souls work intensely with us to teach us why certain behavior is not loving. Mikey tells me Heaven always knows the true intent of all of our actions. It is the true intent that is noted. It is not that we are judged by others, we are "taught" by others who are more advanced spiritually. I had asked Mikey before if an individual who does not see their behavior as hurtful to others, when they pass, is that no big deal and they continue on their way? Mikey told me they are given much teaching and guidance if they cannot see this. We learn here, and we learn there!
    There are several threads on this forum (quite some time ago) on the aspects/planes of Heaven, the highest being Celestial. There is also talk about the "outer darkness" or lower levels where there is much less love. These levels involve much teaching for those who are willing. We can always improve ourself if we want to. It is our choice, just like we make choices here. In regards to the words "being placed", if we need "much guidance and work" about loving ways, this occurs in in the first or second planes/aspects according to Mikey . If egos carry over, we are guided by advanced loving souls accordingly to the appropriate vibrational level . Mikey tells me in cases of such magnitude and pain that involved many, time is spent in "isolation" for better understanding and teaching to take place without distraction, for lack of a better word to use. Love is always given. No matter what. But how we spiritually advance ourselves is by being loving and forgiving. We are responsible for our actions in regards to the true intent that is behind them. If we cannot see it, our advanced spiritual helpers will teach us.
    Hope this clears the confusion. This is what Mikey has to say.
    Carol and Mikey "in Spirit"
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2013
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  13. Intbel

    Intbel New Member

    If by "Truly evil people" you mean Osama Bin Laden - who says he is 'truly evil', please?
    What do we really know of the man or what he has done other than what the media tells us?
    We know nothing in this regard. One thing is certain - he had nothing to do with the 9/11 obscenity so anyone trying to hang that on him to justify the label of 'truly evil' is sorely mistaken.

    For us all, what I do know is, the outcome for each of us will be exactly what we deserve, no more and no less. Some may call this 'Divine Justice' or 'Karma' ... one particularly well known character stated as a matter of fact that we will reap what we sow. All sounds fair and reasonable to me. And anyway, why concern ourselves with how complete strangers about whom we know nothing are faring?

    Seems to me the Law applies to all so having an understanding of the Law we can relax knowing that everyone will be exactly where they need to be and it is not for to judge others as evil or otherwise for most of us don't fully know ourselves let alone any other.

    Mind you, I'd love to know what some folks are up to these days ... family members, especially my Father who I suspect is thoroughly enjoying himself.
     
  14. Celera

    Celera Active Member

    I quite disagree on bin Laden's involvement in 9/11, but that is not a topic for this forum. And indeed, nobody (presumably) on this forum knew him well enough to know the intentions of his heart, or to what extent he may have done things that seem evil to us but which he utterly believed were just and holy. From that perspective, the question of why we care what this stranger's fate might be is a good question.

    You don't say much about your father, but I've mentioned in an earlier post about my mother, who was as self-righteous and vindictive a person as I've ever known. She did things that most people find shockingly cruel to her children and her husband, and yet did everything with apparently a perfect sense that she was right to do them, and indeed that she suffered from the cruelty of others. (Like when my father selfishly went on business trips or when I ungratefully got a B or my sister wantonly grew into a buxom young woman.) Understanding what will happen to a person like that after she leaves Earth is very important for me (and I'm not alone.)

    I think the discussion of bin Laden was intended to stipulate that he was a bad guy. Perhaps that assumption is wrong. Maybe he was a misguided sweetheart. But you all didn't know my mother, so a public representative of evil must be chosen for the sake of argument.

    Also -- when I read that OBL might be at a "low level" I don't understand that to mean some sort of punishment -- any more than first grade is a punishment for children who don't yet know how to read. The idea of tutoring and elementary teaching seems to me to be more what Carol is referring to?
     
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  15. Intbel

    Intbel New Member

    Celera, I have no desire to bring political matters to the table - I just don't like folks being unjustly maligned.

    As to my father, he's a good guy. Always did what he thought was best for his wife and children. The punishment meted out when I was young (pre eleven years old) would today be construed as abuse, as would be similar punishment in school. That was how things were and we accepted that, at the time.

    A few years before he left, while in conversation, my Father mentioned the punishment he gave was his only regret. I felt some sadness that he should have been carrying such regret for so many years and told him to forget it - after all, I knew the penalties for certain behaviours and was prepared to take risks and held no grudge and as far as I was concerned, my forgiveness (if that was what he wanted) was irrelevant - nothing to forgive, he was making it all up.
    So, we had a laugh and chatted some more about a variety of things and the barely perceptible tension that was between us for years vanished.


    Regarding your mother, of course I know nothing. All I know is, everyone is doing the best they can with the resources available to them.
    Not all our resources are available to us all of the time, especially while under stress when unwise choices are often made.
    Many folks are under stress 24/7 and being so - how can the mind function properly?

    Folks need to communicate more, especially within the family unit. Children, parents and grandparents should feel free to share different perceptions and understandings so that harmonious relationships may more easily develop.
     
  16. anonymous

    anonymous New Member


    I hope people don't mind if I discuss something unpleasant, but people are here for the truth...

    You have to understand what "teaching" and "low levels" mean.

    As far as I know, "teaching" means showing souls how their actions affected other people by having them experience their actions from the other person's perspective. This is like the life review people who have near-death experiences report.

    "Low levels" mean the students are souls who committed very unpleasant acts and they need to be taught because they don't understand what is wrong with doing those acts. They liked what they did and would be pleased to do it again at the first opportunity.

    In this case "teaching" in the "low levels" is a euphemism for a place where murderers and rapists and all sorts of other ignorant souls are being "taught" by having done to them what they had done to others during their life.

    None of this is done in a vindictive manner or as punishment, but it is still not a very pleasant place to be and the people there are not very pleasant characters.

    Fortunately, I think if a soul comes to the afterlife understanding that what they did was wrong, they will need less "teaching".

    If I have mischaracterized the situation I hope Carol and Mikey will correct my misunderstandings.


    Thanks,
     
  17. Intbel

    Intbel New Member



    [SUB]I really do not think folks are taught by having done to them what they had done to others, really I don't.
    I think we become fully aware of the consequences of our actions and will feel great joy for the amount of good we come to realise we have done and also the reverse is so - resulting in great anguish.
    Thus we create our own reward and our own retribution. Of course there are others to help us, especially when help is sought.
    And while there will be those who seek help and have an honest desire to make amends, there will be those who will bemoan their state and still entertain their base desires.

    At all times we are exactly where we need to be. Some are behind us and some are ahead of us and 'tis certain that there are many, many more ahead of us than behind us.

    As we progress, it behoves us to give a helping hand to those who have made (or appear to have made) less progress than we have in the same way we seek help from those ahead of us.

    There can be no judgement. We all start from scratch and to judge those who have made less progress than we have is to judge who we once were and to give undue honour or even worship, to those way, way ahead of us is to worship who we will one day become.[/SUB]

    [SUB]
    Thus it is said truly that all judgement is self judgement.

    Respect and honour to all for even those who we may perceive to have been "bad" people while here have come through a tough experience.[/SUB]
     
  18. Carol and Mikey

    Carol and Mikey Golden Hearts

    Hi Intbel,
    Can you do me a favor? Make your print of your posts larger so I can read them better. I am an old lady! My eyes are getting bad! Ha ha!

    Earth is our school according to Mikey. It is a place of learning with many situations presenting themselves here, as we know. We learn best through experience. How do we choose to handle these experiences? Is love the basis? Are we forgiving? Are we judging others? We learn here, and we learn in Heaven according to Mikey. The life review offers great learning. Are we open and accepting to what we have experienced with our choices and the results that followed? What was the intent with the action?
    Mikey tells me we judge ourself, but if "ego" carries over and one "does not see" certain issues, loving guidance and teaching is given. It is all about learning.
    The goal we have as to why we come here is for spiritual growth and learning. Growth comes from loving ways. Heaven has hundreds of "aspects" of love. The more loving the higher the vibrational level. The Celestial level is the highest. That is our goal. It is all about love according to Mikey.
    There are different components that play a part in regards to the lower levels (less loving/ lower vibrational levels). You can put yourself there or you end up there as intense loving teaching is needed. There is always help and we can always improve ourselves if we choose. There is no judging. Just teaching and learning.
    Mikey tells me, in general, we all have a strong desire to improve ourselves spiritually. That is why we come here. We learn best through experience.
    Carol and Mikey "in Spirit"
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2013
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  19. anonymous

    anonymous New Member

    Intbel,

    When spirits experience the consequences of their actions from the point of view of the other people they effected, as in the life review described in the near-death experience, that is having done to them what they do to others. Also sometimes people will reincarnate to be a victim of some crime they committed in a previous life, to experience "balance". That is also "having done to them what they have done to others".

    I think these are pretty very common beliefs about the afterlife. I don't believe Mikey has disputed these two phenomena occur. Please correct me if I am mistaken. What I did was try to put them together without sugar coating because I think my explanation is more realistic.

    I don't want to frighten or depress anyone so I'll also repeat, if someone understands their mistakes were mistakes when they cross over, then I think it is obvious that they would need less "teaching".



     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2013
  20. anonymous

    anonymous New Member

    When spirits experience the consequences of their actions from the point of view of the other people they interacted with, as in the life review described in the near-death experience, that is having done to them what they do to others. Also sometimes people will reincarnate to be a victim of some crime they committed in a previous life, to experience "balance". That is also "having done to them what they have done to others".

    I think these are very common beliefs about the afterlife. I don't believe Mikey has disputed these two phenomena occur. Please correct me if I am mistaken. What I did was try to put them together without sugar coating because I think my explanation is more realistic.

    I don't want to frighten or depress anyone so I'll also repeat, if someone understands their mistakes were mistakes when they cross over, then I think it is obvious that they would need less "teaching".




     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2013

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