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signs as messages

Discussion in 'Carol and Mikey Q&A 'follow-on-discussions'' started by mac, Feb 5, 2020.

  1. mac

    mac Staff Member

    good questions, David

    I can only assume that although we've been told it's fairly easy for spirits to interfere with electric/electronic devices in our physical world there must be something constraining inappropriate behavior.

    Just imagine the chaos it could cause if malicious/mischievous spirits could interfere with important elctronic circuits. There's already great concern about foreign governments interfering in elections, exercising political influence etc. by manipulating the cyber systems found throughout our modern-day world. Just imagine what might happen if our friends unseen were also able to interfere.
     
    Storybud68 likes this.
  2. Storybud68

    Storybud68 Active Member

    I understand what your saying mac,but I suppose it depends on what's innaproriate, I'm guessing the majority of spirits are good ,so surely they can do it like mikey ,I mean if mikey says he can do it surely all the good spirits could do it and reassure us they are all okDavid
     
  3. mac

    mac Staff Member

    I'd define 'inappropriate' as something that doesn't have positive outcomes, David.

    I think that's a fair guess, David, but what of those who don't have positive intentions?

    It's certainly the impression we're given from what's been 'said'....


    And we're back to your earlier question - if they can/could indicate their survival/presence by interfering in positive ways and in ways we would recognise, why don't more of them do it so it leaves us in no doubt? You've already said you've asked for something for yourself but it seems you've received nothing. It could be, of course, you've just not been able to recognise what was sent and there's no way to tell the difference between those alternatives.

    I could readily offer s few ideas why that might be so but I think it's better to see how Mikey explains the actual situation. ;)
     
  4. mac

    mac Staff Member

    I appreciate it must be tricky following our conversation that spread over several postings.

    For those like David who don't experience any contact with loved ones 'over there' it's so much harder. He and they may be earnestly asking for a sign but don't have any idea what to expect or how to be alert to la response. Even if something unusual were later to happen the farther in time from the request the less certain someone may be left.


    I get that Mikey can have a bit of fun but speaking for those in a similar position to David they may be pretty unsure about survival et al - their signs ideally need to be direct and unambiguous.


    Surely, though, the purpose of being in school is to be shown, taught and guided? Teachers provide answers to questions in ways most appropriate for their students. With something so important and difficult to follow as survival beyond death it's understandable folk will harbor doubts unless they're taught what's significant, how to tell what's not coincidence - just saying there's no such thing as coincidence probably isn't going to work.

    I've often been criticised for using 'semantics' but the way I view things is that our world is a place where we learn from the experiences we have here. I don't agree we come to 'learn our lessons' (as sometimes it's said) so much as to find out for ourselves, the framework for our learning already chosen before we incarnate. None of us is consciously aware of another's learning framework unless we collaborated on it beforehand so most will not know what is likely to work for someone else or for themselves. That means we may not have answers that others will find persuasive.


    Sadly the practical stuff of life is also what kids have to learn and we all know that religion's not the best teacher of spiritual/afterlife information. The same goes for school. We need something that works.

    Such a shame transparency occurs only close to their crossing. Often many of 'the elderly' will have had years of sadness and loneliness after the passing of their partner of many years. They need to 'hear' from their loved one but I wonder if many actually do? :(

    If only it were that way more often. :( I hope Mikey will continue further to help members following this particular topic.
     
  5. bluebird

    bluebird Major Contributor

    Mac,

    Carol said "Then with the elderly, it seems the veil thins before transition. They see and hear loved ones again! Mikey tells me this is a true concept.", to which you replied "Such a shame transparency occurs only close to their crossing. Often many of 'the elderly' will have had years of sadness and loneliness after the passing of their partner of many years. They need to 'hear' from their loved one but I wonder if many actually do? :("

    Agreed, but remember -- it is not only the elderly who have years of sadness and loneliness after the death of their partner. In fact, in many ways it is worse for those of us whose spouse/partner died (relatively) young, as we are sad and lonely for many more years (in general).
     
  6. mac

    mac Staff Member

    I totally accept and agree entirely with your points, bb.

    When I sat writing my responses yesterday evening I tried not to appear to be speaking for anyone specific without their approval. But I was very aware of your own situation and that of others here on ALF, some who have written recently about their experiences seeking evidence of their loved ones' survival.

    The topic of signs and symbols as messages is one that can be found elsewhere on ALF. We've discussed, debated, agreed and fallen out with one another and I expect it will remain a subject of continuing interest and irritation. As an ordinary member here on ALF, one that is totally persuaded about survival, I am uncomfortable with what I hear and must admit I'm far from persuaded on the value of (potential) 'signs and symbols.'

    My personal experience is that recognition of them comes later rather than at the time they're happening - and I'm someone who doesn't have any doubts about survival in the first place. It took many years 'in the spooks' for me to reach this point and for anyone at an earlier stage I have doubts they'll feel persuaded.

    My thoughts and ideas represent my personal approach to this topic and I am concerned for those desperate to feel reassured their loved ones are doing fine but unable to see evidence of it.
     
    bluebird likes this.
  7. Lola Hoovler

    Lola Hoovler Active Member

    Good point, Bluebird. That is very true. I know this for a fact as I am in that boat.
     
    bluebird likes this.
  8. mac

    mac Staff Member

    You and several other members, Lola. Regular gals and guys who come to ALF hoping for that certain something-or-other that helps persuade them their loved ones are alive, well and still the people they used to be. I do wish more members would chip in with their own feelings and thoughts.
     
  9. Ruby

    Ruby Established Member

    This is so true and so tragic. You had such a short time with your husband. Losing a partner affects everything.
    We scattered the ashes on Friday as it dawned bright and sunny. I decided I just had to do it there and then. We drove up to the moors and I just tipped it all out (our half) but kept a spoonful in a oriental ginger jar, which seems appropriate as my son always wanted to travel and had tickets for the Trans Siberian Express train when he was diagnosed. My husband watched from the car, as he seems to get extremely emotional at these times, such as lighting a candle in York Cathedral at Christmas. I said a few words quietly and that was it. I think my husband gets so emotional because he's not experienced the signs I've had, and the last one in late November when the livingroom lights went out at the words "Viking funeral" on television, a ceremony which my son's friends put on for him, he dismissed as a coincidence. I am always in two minds here, as to whether any of it is real, never satisfied and thinking I know he's still there somehow. I'm constantly puzzling these things, such as that there was no "thinking time" from an outside source, but equally odd would be the notion that my mind itself could switch off the lights. If that were the case, would the deceased not be causing havoc everywhere? I don't think any of us can really know, but something must have crept into my thinking because I'm in a much better place overall having had the experiences. The fact that Bluebird and others have had nothing definitely detracts from the idea of these being real contacts from another dimension. A friend of mine said that she received her two roses for Christmas. She thinks they are coming from her husband, one growing for her daughter and one for herself, in the garden, every Christmas for the last eight years. She also said that her mother saw her father from the kitchen window after he had died. He walked round the side of the house and she ran to the front and saw him wave and vanish. I suppose overall we have to bear in mind that we know our own minds and what is normal cognition in our own brains, despite what the accepted medical and psychological opinion would be. I'm going to a day conference on afterlife studies with University of Nottingham researchers at the end of the month and am looking forward to it. I think it helps to keep ruminating on it. I hope they aren't of the conventional science persuasion and studying it as extending brain ability alone. The survival side is more fun.
     
  10. mac

    mac Staff Member

    Thank you for coming in, Ruby, to express how these things are for you. I appreciate your outlining how you feel and how it was for your husband.

    The signs you're seeing but still wondering about are exactly the kind of issue I was 'speaking' about earlier. And exactly the situation Carol mentioned yesterday when she spoke about our needing to be open to signs and 'thinking outside of the box'. And the difficulty loved ones may face when they have sent a sign they think will work but then the recipient still has doubt and uncertainty. In each case it can be hard to get the balance right.

    I've been thinking about this whole subject for a few days recently although it's never far from my thoughts at many other times. For some reason I've felt it pressing on my mind that I need to say something more and to keep the conversation going - but maybe that's just my questioning mind at work with no other significance?

    So it was ten past six Sunday morning (Arizona) with the 1 o'clock BBC Radio 4 news playing through a web connection with my wife and I listening to the Storm Ciara reports from around the UK. I was trying to get the web link to ALF working at the same time as trying to read Ruby's message when my wife - using a cell phone browser separately from what I was doing - declared that a new message from friends in the UK via Yahoo Mail had disappeared before her eyes as she was about to read it. The web indicator icon on my computer showed we were losing the link and then getting re-connected and we were both getting annoyed by the loss of the radio, the loss of the email and the connection to ALF failing. And the penny dropped and I told my wife how I'd been writing about 'signs and messages' on the website - all she knows about ALF is that it's a spooks website I visit.

    So in the space of a few minutes this morning I was faced by three technological issues transiently preventing us both from doing what we were trying hard to do and leaving us frustrated and exasperated. Were those issues just random problems experienced when connecting to stuff all around the world, amazingly complex networks of physically and electronically connected equipment controlled by computer code known to be flaky or buggy at times? Or were they issues local just to my wife and me, issues created as examples for me/us by our son (or someone else) 'over there' following what I'm saying about this topic of signs and messages? Or am I reading into those events this morning something more than was truly present?

    This kind of dilemma may be that faced by individuals who notice 'stuff' of their own but are then unable to decide if it's reality or wishful thinking that their loved one is signalling her/his presence and sending love.
     

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