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Responding to the Religionist's Challenge

Discussion in 'Spiritual Growth & Development' started by Types With Fingers, Jan 17, 2016.

  1. Eternal

    Eternal New Member

    I'm actually not talking about not liking someone for something they have done. It is more specifically, not liking a characteristic they have. For instance, selfishness, arrogance, things like that. There are even characteristics about myself I do not like. Some of these are so inbred, not easily changed. That is why I say, I must overlook or accept them the way they are. Loving unconditionally is a challenge. :p
  2. lybg

    lybg New Member

    Thank you!

    Excellent Eternal! I am so glad there are people able to put into words what I cannot. :eek:
  3. jimrich

    jimrich Active Member


    Dear Roberta:
    My 1st guru, Jim, taught me to examine semantics and showed me some deeper definitions of common words like love, evil, goodness, god, truth, etc. It surprises me that many words like 'love' are rarely ever defined by those who use these words as if it is automatically accepted that everyone already understands the meaning of 'love' so why bother to define or explain it?
    I just stopped to look up 'love' in online dictionaries and found so much material that it would take many pages to paste it in here so I'll just paste a few things about 'love' from my own notes and books:

    From my 1st guru's notes:
    Love means this: That you will experience harmony with the entire universe; with all living beings; with all manifested creatures. You will love them all because you have found within them the same divine essence that is within yourself. They all spring from the same root, and that root is the One Overself.

    From the book The Choice for Love by Emmanuel: http://www.emmanuelandfriends.org/products.php
    Seeker: How do I know what love is?
    Emmanuel: By knowing who you are.

    Seeker: How do I learn to love myself?
    Emmanuel: By doing it. Not by thinking about it. The moment you think about it, you go back into duality, into fear.

    On gradations of love:
    The definition of love alters so readily to suit the circumstances that the word ceases to have any definite meaning. Are there different gradations of love? No. But there are myriad ways to express it.

    IMO, liking or not liking is a completely different from loving or not loving. But this would take stopping to offer my definitions of 'like' and 'love' and perhaps also the dictionaries versions and maybe the versions of other authorities and spokepersons on just those two words. Then there comes the question of what exactly is "spiritual growth"? And do we "have to" love everyone? So, right away, I feel pulled into a jungle of words, phrases and undefined words and terms which might take a whole book to sort out and understand just from that one sentence alone.
    Re: "How can I explain?" IMO, you would have to carefully and diligently define each and every word in that sentence and maybe even offer a few paragraphs to explain it all in as much detail as you possibly can.

    So, when we see that eternal Mind is in all of us, we will love others AS our self. IMO, eternal Mind/god is not only in us, it IS US. There is only eternal Mind/God that is pretending to be a universe filled with: suns, planets, moons, asteroids, plants, animals, spirits, energy, events, action, dramas, forums, ideas, intentions, impulses, music, art, romance, intrigue, etc. It's all one Mind; one Love; one Self; one This; one That; one I; one Me; one You; one One - as far as I can determine for now.
  4. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    Good point, dear! The love that mothers have for their children does seem to pattern the kind of universal love that we are supposed to be learning. But still, even for mothers there has to be a spiritual maturation that will let us get beyond the sense that love for anyone at all is optional; mothers love their children, but not everyone. Universal love must go far beyond that.
  5. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    It turns out to be a process of REMEMBERING. We aren't learning anything new! Instead, we are getting beneath the illusions and remembering who and what we really are. That is why it's so easy and it feels so natural, and why it seems to be a permanent process: once we get it, we really get it. And forever.
  6. jimrich

    jimrich Active Member

    Roberta who or what are you? :)
  7. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    Heh. I'm still trying to figure that out myself, dear!
  8. Eternal

    Eternal New Member

    From my personal experience, we ALL are pure consciousness, perfect spiritual eternal beings. :) Here as earth beings we are products of our environment. We each have our list of challenges to overcome in this lifetime. Anyway, that is my perspective.
  9. jimrich

    jimrich Active Member

    I recommend just feeling it and not 'figure' it out. You are your self! What does that feel like? Is it just a thought or is it a sensation/experience/feeling?
  10. jimrich

    jimrich Active Member

    What does that feel like to you? Can you offer a few "felt" terms to describe how pure consciousness feels or appears to you?
  11. Eternal

    Eternal New Member

    Feelings of peace, love and harmony. Non existant negativity, fear.
    Knowing we are loved completely and accepted as a perfect being. :)

    When I had my experience it was an overwhelming peaceful and loving light that enveloped me and an acceptance of me, as if I had no imperfections at all. quite shocking! I was thinking... they must have me confused with someone else. Lol.. :eek:
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2016
  12. jimrich

    jimrich Active Member


    Eternal: This is a beautiful and inspiring report, IMO. Please tell us more. :) jim
  13. AmbraADC

    AmbraADC Banned

    You all make good points. I am a Christian, and was raised a Christian. But I never went to church as an adult, because I don't like being told what to think. Arguing about beliefs, in my experience, is a waste of time. Each person must investigate and research their own beliefs about anything, and come to their own conclusions. If a seeker is concerned about offending God, that they must handle it in prayer, one on one with God. People tend to cling to beliefs about anything that suits the way they feel about themselves and life. If that includes taking a rigid position and not considering anything else, or telling people of other faiths or belief systems that they're wrong, well, it's their time to waste, in my opinion. I don't defend any of my beliefs, I just tell people to do their own research. I've had messages/visions/miracles from God, Jesus, Angels and deceased family members by the way. It's the ADCs that have made me a seeker. :)
  14. Deb A.Z.

    Deb A.Z. New Member

    Hi Roberta, This is a very interesting thread. I think all of us have had a form of debate, or at least a conversation with Evangelicals and other fundamentalists with strong religious beliefs. From my experience I find it nearly impossible, if not completely impossible to sway anyone's thinking in regards to the beliefs they were brought up with.
    My question is.....why try?? If we entered into this lifetime with an " intention " would we not have a bit of , say, "wiggle room" in our thinking? What I am trying to say is I don't think we will ever change the majority of those with firm religious beliefs, that was not part of their orientation in this lifetime. We can only attract the abundant number of us who are steadfast in OUR beliefs.(our firm beliefs, I might add) Then it is like the scientific progress only being made by funerals. We will have to depend on each generation to carry on, and this will be easier as evidence of the afterlife becomes clearer. Any thoughts on this , guys??
  15. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    Dear Deb, if you don't feel a need to try then I certainly won't suggest that you should! My path is different from yours. I am being called to reach out to close-minded Christians and try to open their hearts to Jesus. I didn't choose this path, but I accept it, especially since I understand that a great deal will need to change - and soon! - if we are to alter what is now a dramatic downward course of history. Each of us has our own part to play in the effort being engineered far above us to elevate human consciousness and quite literally save the world.
  16. Deb A.Z.

    Deb A.Z. New Member

    Dear Roberta, I did a terrible job stating my thoughts on this subject, please let me try again. I was thinking more in terms of our preplanned, reincarnation, where we come back with an agenda for ourselves. After rethinking , I realize now how mistaken I am. We have free will to make changes, even our spiritual beliefs.
    So when I said "why try" I was referring to our supposed soul contract we made in entering this lifetime. You're right , much work is needed.
  17. jimrich

    jimrich Active Member

    I, too, have had a few "run-ins" with Fundamentalists - usually Christians - and all I can say is: stick with what you actually know and/or experience and ask or even demand that the skeptics do the same. I am willing to hear and even accept the actual experiences and first hand knowledge from anyone about what they KNOW but not about what they: believe, have heard, were told or taught, think, read in a book such as the Bible, etc. - just their own actual, personal and REAL experience/knowledge. This is why I have such a hard time when folks, who have never examined and personally translated Biblical writings, want to quote the bible as some kind of fact or proof.

    IMO, the only way to become confident and well-versed in this or any other topic is to have some kind of actual and real experience with it such as: visiting a psychic who helps you connect with a departed love one or connecting with a departed loved one in your own, actual experience BUT, don't expect a lot of cynical, religious and FEARFUL others to happily or openly accept what you discover about the Afterlife, etc. IMO, the only "defense" is just knowing what you know for certain but I'd would not spend a second trying to defend what I now know about the Afterlife.

    IMO, the only way to be convinced is by having contact with the departed or having a psychic, etc. help you make such a contact. Once you have made such a contact and truly know that it's real, you will not need to search and dig any further unless you want to. There is a lot of material on this subject so, have a ball but do whatever you can to actually make contact with a departed love one or anyone if you don't have a departed love one to connect with.
    My recently departed wife is constantly around here BUT I could not "prove" that to anyone and some believe it while others don't. Those who believe she is still here have had their own connection experiences from the Afterlife so we just laugh about it and let the skeptics go their own way.
    good luck,
  18. jimrich

    jimrich Active Member

    Original texts

    I personally would not take any of that seriously UNLESS I actually translated the original biblical writings for myself. Why should I accept the interpretations and examination of others? So far, I have not met anyone who has done their own translating from the original work but who parrot the questionable work of other folks.
  19. jimrich

    jimrich Active Member

    taking on dogma

    IMO, the best way to take on any dogma is to go to the source of it and do my own examinations and translating. Are you (or anyone) ready to do that?
  20. jimrich

    jimrich Active Member

    Beliefs vs. Knowledge

    Yes, and the additional layer of knowledge might need to come from deep and serious investigations such as: translating the original biblical writing for your self and having a direct Afterlife connection or letting a psychic help you have it.

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