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related matters

Discussion in 'Instrumental TransCommunication with Stations' started by mac, Jun 1, 2016.

  1. Andrew

    Andrew Guest

    I'm not sure exactly how this will work, Mac, but I'm not personally convinced that just because communications from children are prioritized, they are the only communications one will be able to receive. Time, if not wholly non-existent, is remarkably flexible in the Summerland levels, and those people like Craig who will likely be assisting bereaved parents to connect with children will only be capable of connecting so many parents in any given space of time. (As you yourself pointed out, even though thousands of children have commented through the Brazilian Station, the actual per diem number of connections is much lower.) So, I tend to think that there will still be a reasonable amount of communication opportunities for discarnate adults--especially given that the North American Station is reportedly much larger than its Brazilian counterpart.
     
  2. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    There are various issues where it appears we simply have to accept what's said, where answers aren't forthcoming, Andrew.

    Perhaps the points we raise won't matter in the long run but as I've grown older I've become more unaccepting of anything we're just expected to accept. Call it senior crankiness but I call it applying the 'SB rule of thumb' - reject or challenge what doesn't appeal to your reason. Put another way, don't just accept what you're told without question.

    I take your point about the practical limitations of assisting parent/child contacts. There may be times when much of the English-language world is asleep, when the station's priority communicators are not active. One might expect, then, that at those times the station's devices could be used for adult-to-adult communication. But my enquiring mind then wonders why there can't also be many translator devices - some fully deployed making kids the priority and the rest being used in other ways, by experimenters. We don't have a single clue what these communication devices are or how they were created or manufactured but I suggest they weren't made by the etheric equivalent of the factories that churn out our own communication devices so why would there be a practical limit on the number that could be brought into service? There are devices
    functioning for Portugese so make more of them. Need more space? Extend the existing building or build others.

    As before I can't be the only individual looking on and failing to see justification for self-imposed restrictions. The Brazilian Station is operational and if ITC is to bring the message of survival to the world, why is it smart to continue to constrain that message from being heard by more of this world's population by using only parents and kids?

    I just wonder to myself if some involved are so awed by the situation that they can't step back and ask "why?' more often. It's something I've seen in other situations. Whenever we ask "why?" and get no satisfactory answer, shouldn't we then be asking ourselves why that is?
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2016
  3. Andrew

    Andrew Guest

    Speaking of Portuguese, I've made a third attempt today to contact a specific Brazilian researcher with whom Craig and Sonia are working. I still hear no responses, but it's likely that I am missing the responses. (I say that because Craig has recently sent me a few responses that he received in Portuguese, and I cannot hear them in the unedited audio, but they are quite intelligible once Sonia separates them. The recording process is slightly different, since the Brazilian Station is no longer dependent on gibberish, so I'm likely not used to it.) In any case, I still have no additional information from the Brazilian Station on these matters. My new recording equipment arrived today, so I will try to contact both Stations again tomorrow.


    I'm not suggesting that your questions are unreasonable--quite the opposite, really--and I'm sure that others are curious about these points as well. I also agree with what you've said above about not accepting without question what is asserted. However, isn't it possible that the reason we are not getting satisfactory answers to our questions is simply because this technology, which is still in its infancy after all, is unable to convey such details? I am personally, for the moment, satisfied with helping the Station develop, and I do expect to receive more detailed information once everything is set up.
     
  4. Truth seeker

    Truth seeker Member

    All this information of a spiritual world where advanced technologies are used by the spirits its mentioned a lot by Brazilian spiritists including Chico Xavier and Divaldo Pereira so it validates even more their communications...

    by the way heres a ITC video where a moving spirit talk about the spiritual life in real time and also shows some summerland pictures

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmQIYyPX9Ts
     
  5. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    It will be interesting to compare the original with the new set equipment.




    Re the bold text, absolutely that's a possibility. And that highlights the suggestion I made earlier that an alternative form of communication would be helpful, something running in parallel allowing such questions to be answered. I find it puzzling, though, that such an apparently complex set of experiments has been underway for such a long time yet we know almost nothing about the science involved.

    Consider how potentially persuasive it might be to have at least basic explanations of the devices being used even though those explanations couldn't be totally technical. In our technological world I suggest folk will expect to know what the communication device looks like, what's 'inside the packet' and how it was constructed. The questions I've posed are likely to be way less probing and challenging than the ones that will come from others. It would be great if communications were predictable, reliable and clearly heard by anyone to the degree that they simply overwhelmed all the completely-predictable challenges that we can be absolutely certain will come from detractors.

    If they're not, if there's any weakness in their presentation, I fear the simple message of survival may not succeed as predicted.
     
  6. hopeful

    hopeful Member

    Andrew, you described the method of contact which requires only good microphone and good computer. Am I correct that
    we do not need internet connection.
    How do you connect with station?
    Is it just asking them on microphone and they reply the name of the station?
    If that is the procedure, it is just like in shows on TV where the Ghost hunters use video camera and sound recorder.

    In 1980's there were reports that by keeping video recorder on and facing the TV with the non programming Channel on, one could see the images. It never happened with ordinary Joe. Then again having a simple tape recorder leaving on with questions also did not happen with general public. About Brazilian experiments, I read about it many years ago. Now, this forum is paying attention to it. Time will take its course and decide how far we go with it. Thank you.
     
  7. ShingingLight1967

    ShingingLight1967 Active Member

    With traditional EVP, spirits must come to the earthbound realm to communicate through the recording equipment. This approach is problematic because that plane of existence is also inhabited by all manner of negative beings who would be only too happy to toy with the living. That is why many EVP messages often create more confusion than clarity; the messages often include impatience, hyperbole, and grandstanding--sure signs that they're from low-level entities.

    ITC with Stations allows us to contact those in the Summerland (and those above that level) without interference or impersonations by mischievous beings in the earthbound realm.


    the new method ensures that only loving, successfully-transitioned entities can communicate, and it also has the long-term goal of clear, telephone-like conversations.

    Andrew, thank you for your responses. I have been pondering this for a few days now. I guess I wonder still how this can be any different than a traditional EVP. You ask a question.. and play back the tape to see if there is an answer. The only change is that there is gibberish being used to aid in the communication. My next though is, how anyone can confirm that we are communicating with loving and successfully transitioned entities? It would seem to me that you could open yourself up to anything, good or bad, just as with an ordinary EVP. How can this method ensure that we are communicating with those in the Summerland? Why is THIS method the one that is "sanctioned" but those in the Summerland. Which brings me to next question...

    I'm unaware of the app, but this process is very simple. All you need is something that will play the gibberish file and something that will record what is being played, as well as your voice. Since you need two devices--one to play and one to record--I can't picture how one would do it with only a phone. Personally, I've just invested in a microphone specifically for this, but I have been using my iPhone to record and iTunes on my MacBook to play the gibberish, and I have had very satisfactory results.

    I reviewed the procedures that are in place to make these connections, and honestly, I am still unclear as to why, I couldnt use an app such as echovox or a spirit box or something else to make the same connection. It seems to be the same principle being used all around, so why THIS specific protocol? Why cant my echovox reach the North American Station to communicate with those in the Summerland?

    I feel like I am being difficult with these questions, but I am trying to really wrap my brain around this subject. I have used the echovox only once because of my anxiety of "inviting" a negative speaker into my house. But, wouldnt that also be the same worry with the protocol that is being suggested to contact the NA Station? And what protects the people that are working with it?
     
  8. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    It's important never to forget that the true experimenters in Electronic Transcommunication are the dead. This has always been the case, and what is different now from what it was in 1980 or 1990 or even 2000 is that the dead teams working on communication today are composed of venerable, brilliant people - Einstein, Tesla, and surprisingly many others of their stripe - who are working together in the afterlife levels as hard as any of them ever worked on earth to establish a reliable method of communication between their realm and ours. This is altogether new! I think these modern-day efforts began at around the time of Scole in the late nineties, and some of the dead experts involved appear to be the same, but that is just my speculation. What is different now is that the dead are not just amusing themselves. Now they mean business! So:

    1) They are using physical stations that seem to be located high in the afterlife levels. I have seen reports that they are on the sixth level, which is counterintuitive because it should mean that few of the dead will be able to use them, but it may be that what we think of as a "Station" - one building - is actually many buildings. There being no distance where they are, those many buildings may in fact be just one that exists on all the levels. Who knows?

    2) They are taking the time and trouble to "lay cable." Since their new method seems to involve spiritual light in some way, it may not be too much of a distortion to say that they are laying something like fiber optic cable. As Andrew has said, this is a big change from what apparently was going on in the eighties and nineties, when dead communicators sometimes talked about doing things like building a spiritual phone directly over a physical phone in order to make a phone call.

    3) The dead themselves now badly want this to work. I think this is new! It's not a lark for them now, but rather it is part of raising the consciousness of this planet. It's a matter of saving civilization. My own primary guide, Thomas, is intensely involved in this effort to raise the planet's consciousness, and I have never seen anyone so obsessed with anything as he is with this project. The others seem to feel the same way.

    4) They are building their equipment and procedures to be largely shielded from negativity. By using a definitive station and definitive "cable" laid through love-defended parts of the lower realms, they are keeping interference from negative entities to a minimum. Not only are they making it much more difficult for the bad guys to disrupt communications - in the end, we think this old worry will have become a danger gone - but they also are making it so a properly-placed call to a Station will reliably get station personnel every time.

    5) They are experimenting, but their experiments now seem to be fruitful in their estimation. They haven't discussed with us their intervening steps, and even now they aren't telling us everything. These are minds that were brilliant even on earth, and now they are reunited with the parts of their minds that they had left behind when they entered earth-bodies. To think of Albert Einstein and Nicola Tesla and their peers putting their heads together over this is thrilling! Eventually they will likely tell us how all of this actually works, but for now we can only sit back and marvel.

    So, no, it's not possible to answer all these questions just yet. But, yes, this time things really are different!!
     
  9. Andrew

    Andrew Guest

    Hi SL! I'm sorry for the late response--I wanted to check with Craig Hogan about a couple of things before I answered your questions. Below is his response, which applies to the emboldened questions.

    "There are laws in spirit just as there are laws in physics. Lower level entities can’t interfere when we’re on a higher spiritual endeavor. We never encounter lower-level entities masquerading as people in medium readings or in ITC that are done with a higher spiritual mindset. The lower-level entities do come through in EVP when hobbyists or ghost chasers look for contacts. But we’ve never had an issue with other contacts such as our contacts with the stations. No, the activities won’t attract earthbounds. They can’t interfere unless the person engaging in them is a ghost hunter and is prodding them. We do begin our sessions with a prayer of protection, just as a precaution, but there is never a problem."

    Craig's answer confirms what I have suspected personally, and it makes perfect sense. With regular EVP, one is often just looking to establish contact with anyone in Spirit. "Ghost hunters" especially, although they may not realize it, are looking for entities that have not yet transitioned into the Summerland levels. This sort of communication attempt is likely to attract any nearby entities who are dwelling on the earthbound plane, and it may be dangerous for that reason. However, in our ITC connection procedure, we specifically ask to communicate with the North American Station, and many of us do protection exercises beforehand, as Craig mentioned. Because we are working with the researchers at the stations in order to help them, those in Spirit are making sure that only their responses come through. (There were some issues with negative entities interfering with the process early on--this was before I had started working with the North American Station--but we are told that this problem has been dealt with.) Personally, I also ask verification questions when I am contacting someone I knew on earth.

    Moreover, since we are working to achieve spiritual goals, we are likely vibrating at a level that would repel negative entities. (This is also true with mediums. Those who are spiritual and who wish truly to help others will repel low-level beings, but those who seek material gain or who have become vain because of their gift will often attract pranksters and other nasties from the earthbound plane. Even messages that such mediums receive from advanced beings will likely be corrupted somewhat.) Like attracts like, both here on earth and even more strongly in Spirit. So, a ghost hunter poking around haunted houses looking out of idle curiosity or a desire for fame will certainly risk encountering negative entities, but those contacting the Stations to help elevate humankind's spiritual awareness shouldn't worry..

    As Roberta says above, this method is the one that many well-known researchers seem to be testing out from the Summerland levels, but I certainly wouldn't say that it is the only "sanctioned" method. There are many, many ways to contact those in Spirit, and we should each use whichever method works best for our particular situation--after all, communication with the next world is humankind's universal birthright, not some mystical talent reserved for an elite circle of people. The dead are often so happy to get through to us at all that I think they would relish the opportunity to communicate, no matter how we approach such a task. (Moreover, there are billions of people in the Summerland, and I do not know how widely-known the station work is among the general population there, so it's certainly not as though all after-death communication is required to occur in this form by some higher authority.)

    I'm sorry for any confusion here. I didn't say that using this app wouldn't work; I'm not familiar with it at all. Like I said before, you will need something to play a sort of gibberish, and you will need something that can record both your voice and the gibberish. If you can do all that from the app, then I suppose it would work--I seem to need two separate devices for this though. However, I would recommend that you use the gibberish that Craig has prepared; I've been getting very good responses with the new set, and he is constantly improving it. If the app uses white noise instead of gibberish, I suspect you won't clear responses.

    If you are worried about attracting negative entities, then by all means, say a prayer of protection before you begin. You might thank the Source/God/Mind/Universe for protecting you and for facilitating your connection with loving, transitioned beings, or you could visualize yourself enveloped in loving light--or both! An exercise like that will help to raise your vibration, but those at the Station will also be working to ensure that only their responses come through.
     
  10. Andrew

    Andrew Guest

    Hi Hopeful! Yes, that's right--we do not need an internet connection. In fact, I did one session without an internet connection, and I still received perfectly adequate responses. We "connect" to the North American Station simply by asking to connect with it. It doesn't matter where we are; our intention to connect will telepathically alert those at the Station. They then have a method of using energy to impress their answers onto our recordings. I'm not sure exactly how that occurs, but suffice it to say that those in Spirit do most of the hard work--we just ask the questions! In this thread, you can find several videos of my sessions with the North American Station. Listen to one of them; that's the best way to see what it's like in my opinion.

    What you are talking about with the television feedback loop is called visual ITC--the effort to capture images of those in Spirit. We are only working with audio right now, but I do think that pictures and video will become prevalent in the future--we hear that this is already beginning to occur in Brazil.
     
  11. Andrew

    Andrew Guest

    I agree, Mac--but if we had such a form of communication, we likely wouldn't need the Stations in the first place. ;)

    Those working with the Station have been known to go through other channels when they have needed to get an urgent message across. For example, when Craig and the other researchers were having trouble connecting early on, those at the Station alerted Susanne Wilson to the problem while Roberta was having a reading with her; they knew that the message would then get passed along to Craig. Craig also interviews a spirit named Marlene, who is working with the Brazilian Station--Sonia Rinaldi then translates the responses. So, I would say that those in Spirit are trying, Mac, but a perfect alternative for communication doesn't exist.
     
  12. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    The stations are being used specifically not to need an organic go-between but an alternative way of keeping in touch while the so-called ITC experiment was underway, while deliberately-limited communication is being prioritised, could still be helpful. Then experimenters - discarnate and incarnate equally - could ask questions etc. It's hardly rocket science as the saying goes.....;) You've even given an example, Andrew, of how an alternative means of communication was helpful.
     
  13. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    summarising things, then....

    For anyone interested in, or intending experimenting with, the ITC route to communicate with their loved ones you may wish to mull over the following summary of what's happening - as far as I understand things.

    ITC is an experiment in reaching out to unseen relatives and friends - the approach is only one-way. We're told they may know our intent in advance and respond promptly. If they don't then someone on 'the other side' will 'pass on a message' on our behalf. We've been told there's now no risk of mischief-makers interfering with communication because the 'level' from which transmissions are made is much higher than mischief-makers can 'operate' at. No need then (I suggest) for old fashioned prayer before you try. Prayers to whom for what? Even verification of a communicator's identity shouldn't be necessary; whomever we want to 'speak to either comes or doesn't. The age-old maxim of mediumship appears to obtain - we can't command the presence of someone who doesn't want to come.

    The communication device used is some form of translator/transformer that appears to convert thoughts that are
    telepathically sent to it. The output from it appears to be a signal that can modulate certain frequencies used by humankind's electronic equipments. Apart, perhaps, from a helper sending an initial telepathic message to the intended recipient there is no further third-party involvement in subsequent communication.

    As a final thought, those who communicate with us are not 'the dead'; they're very much alive. If we persist in referring to them as the dead then we help prolong superstitions. This is a modern means of communication for a modern-day world. Let's please drop old phrases and coin new ones.

    I'm older than almost everyone here and even 'mac' doesn't refer to our unseen relatives, friends and helpers as 'the dead'.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2016
  14. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    Thank you for your summary, dear! I guess the only thing I would quibble with is your saying that these interactions aren't spiritual so we needn't any longer pray beforehand or "try the spirits." Nothing about ITC in any way changes the fact that all of reality is spiritual! I guess I might quibble, too, with your saying that these folks aren't "the dead." Of course they're "the dead"! Who else would they be? Our problem seems to be not the term so much, but the fact that until very recently we thought that death meant a final ending. As I say in The Fun of Dying, for most of us, death is the best time of our lives, so let's stop avoiding the term. Death is a good thing!

    Oh, and then there's the age wars ;-). When are you turning seventy, Mac? I'll bet I'll be getting there sooner. Let's have this showdown, once and for all!
     
  15. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    You're welcome to my summary but it was intended more for those who are less experienced....

    Prayer for what, to whom is what I asked? Why would you pray for help when you already know that all is in hand to prevent all the potentially meddlesome spirits who might interfere with communication. Anyone experienced knows how they can, will and do interfere with mediumship. But ITC isn't mediumship and experimenters have declared they've got things sorted so why would there be anything to fear from a spirit masquerading as someone they're not? In mediumship it's a well-know approach to 'test the spirits' but why is there any need with ITC? The stations aren't able to be reached by 'low-level entities', are they? Or maybe I've misunderstood?

    How can the so-called dead actually be dead, without life? Our bodies are dead when our spirit has left them but we spirit-individuals aren't. I'm sure you know the saying "You can't die for the life of you." Do you think that our unseen friends and relatives see themselves as 'dead'?
    'mac' will continue to eschew those words even if others won't join him. I'm old but not that old I can't change. ;)

    As for your quibling about what you claim I said , viz "...these interactions aren't spiritual so we needn't any longer pray beforehand ..." well I've looked and looked at my piece and I can't see those words anywhere in what I wrote! For accuracy please quote what I said, Roberta, rather than what you think I said.

    There's no age war and no need for a showdown but May 2017 will see my 70th. If I haven't shuffled off this mortal coil I'm planning on running again the Bristol 10K (our daughter's home city) in celebration! If I can get through another winter of training I should just about do it. After that who knows? Three score and ten may be all I'll get but maybe four score years so I can observe the changes that have been promised.

    D'ya reckon?
    ;)
     
  16. Andrew

    Andrew Guest

    You're right, Mac, in saying that the dead themselves are loath to use the word "dead," but I agree with Roberta on this point. Firstly, it's somewhat clumsy to say "those we used to think were dead," "those in Spirit," "those on the other side of the veil," etc. The golden rule of writing is to be as concise as possible--not that I should talk, being somewhat wordy myself--but why use a phrase when a single word will do? Moreover, the problem is not really the word "dead." It's rather the connotations we associate with that term that are problematic.

    And to quote Jo Rowling, "Fear of a name increases fear of the thing itself." ;)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 17, 2016
  17. Andrew

    Andrew Guest

    I do personally say a gratitude prayer before starting usually, and then when I contact a specific person, I ask a couple of verification questions to confirm their identity. I don't think either practice is really crucial to the process, and I have skipped them in the past with no ill results; it's something that I do more out of habit than anything else--in the past, I have worked with a pendulum at times, and it is essential to be cautious in that sort of situation. Such caution is likely not needed when connecting to the Stations, but I figure it certainly can't hurt the process.
     
  18. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    Yes of course our discarnate friends eschew the term in much the same way as I. And of course the connotations with 'the dead' are the problem! If you think the phrase "those we used to think were dead" is clumsy, well so do I! So let's find something better!

    Similar problems led to new names being found for 'spastic', 'homo', 'dyke' 'black' etc. There were negative associations with those words and they were changed to something different. In a similar way there are negative associations with 'the dead'. I contend we could, and should, find alternatives. (alternates if you prefer American English!)

    Language use is not static - not without life, not dead - not carved in stone and not immutable. Words get coined. Meanings and usage change. Rules don't exist when we're speaking. We speak how we wish, we say what we choose. What we say can, and does, keep changing. Rules aren't actually rules but are guides to current or conventioal use. We don't adhere to rules when we speak. We can use a word, or words, in ways different from, even opposite to, conventional usage. We can, and we do, coin words when that's helpful or when we choose for whatever other reason.

    I wouldn't want to go from two words - however inappropriate and inaccurate! - to using more words. Instead I usually write 'discarnate' both in the sense of a noun and of an adjective. I'm comfortable with that.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2016
  19. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    It can't hurt the process either by making the sign of the cross, kissing your rosary or twirling a prayer wheel. But neither do any of them do anything positive other than - perhaps - providing focus or a prop for the individual or group. I suggest it's time that communication is modernised and that mumbo-jumbo is discontinued.

    In my earlier piece I referred to the assurance given that 'low-level-entites' can not interfere with communication so protection through prayer is being sought against what? It was only in connection with ITC through the stations that I made the points I did.
     
  20. Andrew

    Andrew Guest

    I do agree whole-heartedly that communication with the dead should be demystified, and I believe that electronic communication is the best means of doing so. But if those unnecessary actions make one feel more secure during communication sessions with the Stations, then I would encourage their use. Of course, religious rituals, be they traditional or new-age, are of little import, but I do believe it is important that the earthly experimenter is in the right frame of mind to receive communications. This may relate a bit to the questions you were posing regarding an organic component recently. I may have been a bit hasty in suggesting that such a component doesn't exist.

    In a message from Sonia Rinaldi, which I received earlier today through Craig, she recommended that I leave the gibberish playing without while I'm asking my questions for the Brazilian Station--I have been pausing it up to this point. Her reasoning was that the dead seem to be somehow dependent on our voices when forming their responses; I've noticed that the majority of my responses from the North American Station do come immediately after I stop recording my own voice, and I've also noted that if I'm tired or distracted, I'll get fewer answers. Moreover, if one leaves the gibberish playing without asking any questions for a relatively long period of time--let's say five minutes--those at the Station will not attempt to say anything in that time, possibly, I'm now theorizing, because they are unable to do so.
     
  21. Andrew

    Andrew Guest

    I'll agree that "discarnate" is an excellent substitution for "dead"--concision typically prefers Anglo-Saxon words though--and that its connotations are much more accurate when describing the state of those in Spirit than are the connotations of "dead." But for me, there is a larger issue at stake: we have to stop the near-universal narrative that death is bad, and that it is the end of individual existence. Death is a mere moment of an eternal journey, and it is no more significant than a person on a road trip deciding to switch cars. I can see both sides of this issue though, and my opinion is not as strong as it likely seems.

    This same sort of conundrum also appeared around the identity of Jesus though. The oldest members of Afterlife Forums--I'm not sure if you had joined yet, Mac--will recall that in the beginning, we used to refer to Jesus here by His aramaic name, Yeshua. Why? Because the Christians had ruined the name "Jesus" with inaccurate connotations of a judgmental savior figure. Moreover, "Jesus" is nothing like the original name. (His name in English would actually be Joshua, which is much closer to Yeshua, if one wishes to get technical about it.) So, the argument was made that this Aramaic name would more accurately represent Him. Roberta even used the name "Yeshua" throughout her first edition of The Fun of Dying. Eventually though, we came to realize that we needn't avoid those old, outdated connotations; we needed to confront and disprove them, and the best way to do that was to reclaim Jesus' name as it appears in common usage. New editions of The Fun of Dying use Jesus, as does Roberta's Liberating Jesus--a name which those in Spirit picked out. I think the same argument can be made for "dead" and "dying."
     
  22. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    Oy. For me it's August. You win, dear ;-).
     
  23. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    Andrew, you always say things better than I ever could! So, Ditto to all that you say here. Then another few thoughts:

    I think that the way we each refer to the dead is a matter of preference. I personally don't like mincing words - it's the writer in me, I guess - and I have grown to dislike most of the mincing-words terms that people use for the dead. I also don't care for "crossing over" and its variations, so I just say "dying" or "transitioning" (I'm starting now not to like "transitioning," either). So now when I refer to people no longer in bodies I just say "the dead," or "people we used to think were dead," and the word "dying" trips right off my pen. I realize as I read what Andrew says above that I seem to want to demystify the word, since we can't get rid of it from the language and to try to avoid saying it makes it remain perhaps spooky or negative in some way. Once everyone is saying "dead" easily and with full understanding that the word's genuine definition is simply an improvement in the dead person's condition, the world is going to be a much happier place!
     
  24. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member


    I'm assuming you mean August this year?

    I'd guess neither of us wants to be the winner in the old-age stakes, Roberta.
    :(

    You have told me several times in the past that you were the elder, Roberta. So it's August for your 70th? Bags I to be the first to wish you an advance 'Happy 70th Birthday' in case I'm not around (online!!) on the actual day. :)
    (if you'd care to disclose the exact date)

    Will there be cake?
    ;)
     
  25. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    In terms of the way we speak, the way we write, we'll just have to go our individual ways.... And that's OK because in connection with the world of the spirit the actual words used are far less important than what they have to tell us. :)
     
  26. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    Communication is all by thought there anyway, dear. My dear friend, Thomas, finds words to be frustratingly imprecise, now that he is used to thought-communication. Sometimes I re-listen to his communication through Leslie Flint as Thomas Jefferson, who was arguably among the best wordsmiths who ever lived, yet he complains there that communicating through an ectoplasm voicebox is frustratingly imprecise. "Words, words, words, and none of them what you want to say!" Whenever I hear him say that, I smile.
     
  27. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    Oh my dear, I love getting old! I'm disappointed not to be older than you are. This is like a race, isn't it? We all know now where we're going, and I wouldn't be young again for all the money in the world! I will turn 70 on August 14th. Thank you for your birthday wishes!
     
  28. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    It's not the communication 'over there' that's the problem, Roberta. It's the way we have to do it here that causes the difficulties. I concur with Thomas. Our spoken and written words can be clumsy and imprecise but they're all we have to convey our thoughts, ideas, feelings. The better we try to use them the smaller the chance of frustration and misunderstanding. We must not give in to loose or dated usage when they don't do what we want them to.

    Life incarnate often presents experiences not obtainable in the higher realms. It's from those that so much of our spiritual progression is made. The difficulties found in human communication is simply one of those experiences.
     
  29. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    There's no race as far as I'm concerned, Roberta.

    You will be young again, of course, and money will not figure in that equation. I find one of the apparently saddest things is that next-time-around we may have lost sight of all we presently know. But from our vantage point after we've passed over we'll likely see it's not sad at all....
    ;)
     
  30. Andrew

    Andrew Guest

    I agree, Roberta! In the afterlife literature from the early 20th Century, the dead themselves generally avoid the term "death," but I don't much care for their terminology either. Some say, "When I came out [to this country]..." or "When I underwent the change...;" I've even heard, "When I was borne unto the shore of immortality..."--even the dead can't seem to find a succinct way to describe the transition in earthly language.
     

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