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New to this forum- here's my thoughts

Discussion in 'General Afterlife Discussions' started by youhadtobethere, Sep 16, 2017.

  1. youhadtobethere

    youhadtobethere New Member

    Hello, I am new to this forum. I, as you can easily surmise- have been querying into the big old question- what happens when we die,

    I have found a few things, I would really like to hear input on.

    To start, my general view on the afterlife (if real) is a ‘scientific/atheist’ construct. What I mean by that is that I do not believe the afterlife or our existence in general is not caused by a ‘God’ or something ‘magical’ (I hope using that word isn’t too out of term). I am also not implying that the answer lies in known science or even related- I’m only implying that it isn’t caused by a ‘higher power’ that controls everything in existence. I’m just calling it ‘scientific’ for namesake

    The earth, universe and everything in it existed long before man. Religions are formed geographically by civilisations that for centuries develop within their own geographical construct, caused by that general human need for purpose and the answer to the question everybody on this form is looking for and based around what is perceived. The bible for example is like learning to be a doctor from 19th century textbooks, They were written in times lacking present day knowledge- but may still contain a few snippets relevant information.

    Returning to my first statement I believe that if we survive after death, it is due to ‘scientific reasons’ that our consciousness continues on. Here are the points i see fault or needs to happen for the afterlife to exist- these will be descriptive but broad:

    Near Death Experiences

    -If NDEs are real: let’s say, you do leave or float above your body at death. There would need to be some law, ‘spiritual physics’ or reason that you do/can re-enter your physical brain/body. If 2 people have an NDE in the same room- what’s to say they can’t switch bodies. I know that sounds quite out of context. There needs to be a form of mechanic that signifies death that requires you to make that transition. Brain dead bodies have been cooled down and resuscitated up to 24 hours later- if the next world doesn't operate the same way or is different to this one- how can we bring a spirit back from the other side back to our biological bodies (cpr etc)

    I do not see a reason that holds our ego/spirit inside our bodies- and how death releases us from it

    In my own opinion, I don’t think NDEs are evidence of the afterlife and should be taken off the table. (i’m not implying there’s no afterlife- i just don’t think NDEs have anything to do with it)

    - In regards to psychic phenomena: I feel that with the billions of people that have died over the years, people who have these abilities would be so overwhelmed with so many people trying to get through- it would be impossible to control. Some of those psychics do seem to get some dead on personal information- i just don’t see why very smart spirits don’t explain it how it works over there better. If supernatural phenomena was also affecting us on this side- i feel we would be overwhelmed by it. Do psychics ever talk to cavemen? And there’s not just human beings: birds, fish, animals, insects- every conscious being would have some form of spirit.

    The human desire for an afterlife came before evidence, physicists didn’t think up the concept of the big bang theory without evidence and then set out to prove it, they came across evidence and tests (right or wrong). That’s just an analogy- I’m not trying to bring science into it.

    There are at least 1700 planets that we know of with no life forms, I think that for there to be an afterlife, it would be based around the earth- in regards to the fact that we were lucky enough to be close enough to the sun to evolve into conscious beings that can survive outside of our bodies- bodies that create our ego and then release it.

    That’s the way i look at it, I hope to hear your guys thoughts on my thoughts :)
  2. bluebird

    bluebird Regular Contributor

    Welcome to the forum, youhadtobethere.

    I am agnostic verging on atheist. Regarding the afterlife, I don't know whether or not an afterlife exists, though I think it's possible that it might. I also think it's possible that a god might exist, though I tend to think not. If a god does exist, then it's possible that god created the universe, but as far as I'm concerned no human (while still constrained by her/his human mind and experience) can really know. If there is an afterlife, perhaps we will find the answers to these questions after death.

    I agree with your assessment of religion ("formed geographically by civilisations....", etc.). However, I do think it's possible that while specific religions were created by humans, there may very well be some sort of god/creator in actuality, though it's unlikely to have been properly or adequately described by any human or group of humans (religion).

    If we do survive in some way after death, I don't know if that's down to god, science, or both. I don't much care, to be honest, though the search to figure it out can be interesting. To me, it is of the utmost importance that an afterlife exists where I will be reunited with my husband and spend eternity with him (and our pets and, eventually, our other family members and loved ones). Whether that afterlife exists due to science or god doesn't really matter to me. And, of course, if there is no afterlife, then once I'm dead I won't know anyway.

    While NDEs might not be proof of an afterlife, I do think that NDEs can at least point to the possibility of the soul's survival outside of the body, whether or not the body is actually clinically dead. If the soul can survive outside of the body, then that -- at least to my mind -- strengthens the likelihood of the existence of an afterlife (as what would be the purpose of our souls continuing to exist after death, otherwise?).

    I think you may be conflating psychics with mediums -- psychic abilities can come in many forms, but it when that form is apparently communicating with the dead then those individuals are generally referred to as "mediums". The more general term "psychic" can refer to telepathy, telekinesis, etc. Anyway, regarding mediums -- if they are legit, they seem to be able to control who "comes through", to some extent. If there is an afterlife, then I also wish that spirits on that side would thoroughly explain how it works.

    Those are my initial thoughts in response to your well-thought-out post, anyway. :)
    Widdershins3 likes this.
  3. youhadtobethere

    youhadtobethere New Member

    I do understand the difference, I should of said 'mediums'.

    What gets me is the biological side of death, if there is an afterlife or a 'different world' (or if were in the same 'world') I do not see how the psychical/biological death relates to a transition in your being going there or transforming into something else. it's like saying were trapped inside our bodies until death.

    If there is a spirit 'world'- i think it is developed by the people who are in it- as humans build societies in this one. But in saying that- something would of had to created the foundation of that world- so i don't think there are other 'worlds' persay.

    I hope you are reunited with your loved ones on the other side. But i think there would have to be some organisation in that plain to do so. However, that would require memories of them to continue to be inside your being to do so- which comes to the whole "brain is a receiver/decoder" theory
  4. mac

    mac Staff Member

    quote: "What gets me is the biological side of death, if there is an afterlife or a 'different world' (or if were in the same 'world') I do not see how the psychical/biological death relates to a transition in your being going there or transforming into something else. it's like saying were trapped inside our bodies until death."

    In effect we are trapped but it's by design and by choice.

    After we die our individual spirit (soul) is free of the constraints of its former physical body. The 'real' self, the spirit-individual we each are, lives on elsewhere. It's something I have written about for years but I know only what teachers and guides (generally regarded as spiritually advanced) have explained to all of us.

    I don't know if there are any technical explanations of the way it happens but if there are I'm not aware of them.

    As an aside, it took me some years to get my head around the basics of survival and life in the world(s) beyond this one. Perhaps others got there more quickly but I had to spend time and effort reading, questioning, listening and - to an extent - experiencing before things even began falling into place. I expect some others will have done something similar and you may need to also.

    Even now, decades later, I don't know anywhere near as much as some others but what I do understand is sufficient for me. That's a reasonable outcome I think.
  5. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    Youhadtobethere, welcome to these forums but please understand that they are not meant to be a place for people to voice and advocate for their beliefs! We have extensive evidence about what ACTUALLY happens at and after death, so - to be frank - who cares what anyone believes? I am at the moment traveling back from the AREI annual symposium, where 33 experts presented on FACTS based upon their experiments and their research. I urge you strongly to investigate what the experts have to say, since otherwise you are going to feel silly going down this beside-the-point trail of speculation. It really is possible in 2017 to KNOW.
    Ed A. and Widdershins3 like this.
  6. youhadtobethere

    youhadtobethere New Member

    I'm sorry if i seem like I'm advocating- It wasn't my intention at all.

    I'm not trying to disprove anyone or disagree with others beliefs . I was just trying to understand the specifics behind the information better.

    I just wanted to see if others may of seen things from my point of view and see what information is available and if they found information that may also benefit my process in understanding.

    I respect everyone's beliefs- and the last thing I want to do is step on anyone's toes :)
  7. mac

    mac Staff Member

    You have no reason to be concerned - if we disagree with what you're saying or doing we'll tell you so! :D

    There's one thing that I don't care for personally and that is cramming into one posting too many issues, each deserving individual consideration.

    I'm always up for conversation and debate but increasingly I'm irked by a posting that covers several related, or unrelated, issues. But that's just cranky curmudgeon mac, I expect, and others may be prepared to give their time to tease out individual points.

    I'm not. ;):p
  8. youhadtobethere

    youhadtobethere New Member

    I'd be very interested in reading about the AREI or some of the experts findings if you knew where that information can be found.
  9. mac

    mac Staff Member

  10. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    The AREI symposium that has just ended was a love-filled feast - some 550 attendees (we tried to cap it at 500 because of the size of the facilities), and so much love and learning and growth! I plan to blog about it on my website as soon as I can get to that. Again, I'd like to emphasize that this isn't really about beliefs, but rather it actually is a science. A great many things are actually known to the point where there is no question about them at all! If you will send me an email through my website, I will be happy to send you a PDF of The Fun of Dying to help you get started, and I strongly recommend the Zammits' book, A Lawyer Presents the Evidence for the Afterlife. Welcome to the most fun there is on earth: learning at last what is going on!
    Widdershins3 likes this.

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