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New here and with some questions on the afterlife

Discussion in 'General Afterlife Discussions' started by Emily E., Jan 31, 2017.

  1. Emily E.

    Emily E. New Member

    I see. I just want to look at a different perspective and see some input on certain arguments from those who firmly believe in the afterlife. I like to be open minded, so I look at a non-believer's perspective and whatever arguments they have, like the argument for the souand then go to a believer and see what they have to say about it. Those two arguments I've seen from atheists and skeptics get to me the most, and I just want to bring them up and ask you what your own personal thoughts are on them.

    About Peak in Darien, someone had mentioned it on this thread. It's basically an NDE experience where you see visions of people who are not known to have died. I found it interesting and it opened me up a bit.

    I hope don't come off as too "debating". I want to look at all possibilities and then decide what I feel is right. I'd hate to misguide myself, and lately I've simply just been stressing out about what I should believe in. I do understand this is a forum for discussion, rather than debunking or debate. That's why I try to make it clear that I just would like a bit of feedback on it, rather than a complete argument. I did look through some of the other threads here, and I do find the stories people have on here fascinating. I suppose like you said, it would be better to learn for myself instead of having someone teach me everything there is to know.

    As for my friend, I gathered a couple of my other friends to try to help her. That's what I usually do whenever she's grieving, and I do feel like I need to bring it up since it's been worrying me as well lately.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2017
  2. jimrich

    jimrich Active Member

    Welcome to this forum I hope many of your questions will be answered but reading what appears here.

    Rather than respond to each point in your post, I will share with you what I did and still do regarding the Afterlife and my daily living.
    I first encountered "proof" of the Afterlife at a Spiritualist church where my late grandfather appeared in a Reading, I had many such encounters over the years the folks living on after death became a fact for me. Then, I had a one to one connection with my late brother in law shortly after his death where there was no Medium involved and we had direct, telepathic or mind to mind communications. It's a very long story. My late wife was a psychic/medium and channeled many Dis-incarnates for grievers to speak with. So, the concepts of the Afterlife are valid facts for me but I could not prove that to anyone. If you want some kind of experienced proof, I'd go sit with a Medium and allow your Dis-incarnate loved ones to come talk to and be with you. They nearly always appear in our dreams, when our conscious mind is less defensive, and they come in a wide variety of ways during our waking states but we usually miss or dismiss those connections. Once you see or accept the various ways your crossed over loved ones try to communicate with you, it might become easier for you to know they are still alive and well over there because they truly ARE. Wishing you much peace and happiness on your journey of discovery that no one and no thing every actually dies. We just move into a different and usually better realm or place.
     
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  3. Emily E.

    Emily E. New Member

    Thanks, Jimrich. Maybe I can try that out. I've also considered meditation, and I heard that also works well for stress/anxiety relief.
     
  4. jimrich

    jimrich Active Member

    I'd google: grief or grief support and learn HOW to help a griever. Basically it's about patiently letting the griever vent, weep, rage, curse, etc. WITHOUT giving them advice or silly feedback about how they'll "get over it" or "it just takes time" or "there, there...." etc. Grievers just need a sympathetic person to permit them to FEEL and EXPRESS their pain, sorrow and anger. It takes guts to let someone VENT in your presence and not rush to FIX or STOP them. Most folks are driven to shut the Griever up so the "friend" will not have to feel so uncomfortable in the Griever's presence!
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2017
  5. Emily E.

    Emily E. New Member

    Thank you. I find your advice on grief really helpful.

    Of course I'm still fairly new to this site so again, sorry if I end up sounding ignorant in some posts, but I'm sure I'll be able to see things clearer once I learn more.
     
  6. jimrich

    jimrich Active Member

    Just one more thing about grief and grief-work. A griever can often trigger the unhealed, hidden and bottled up grief inside of the friendly witness so the "friend" feels uncomfortable, disturbed, hurting and sometimes RESENTFUL of what the Griever seems to be doing TO the friend when all that is happening is the friend's unhealed, inner wounds are being EXPOSED and felt. So the trick is to recognize or realize that the Griever is NOT causing or making the friendly witness have pain or feel bad and that those uncomfortable feelings are coming up from within the friend. The "friends" own unfinished business is being TRIGGERED but such an unresolved friend can still be a neutral or compassionate witness for the Griever if the friend understands where, how and why they are feeling pain or discomfort when near a Griever. Many therapists do NOT understand this and will unwittingly try to "comfort", "sooth" or shut up a Griever ASAP to avoid feeling their own hidden pains. It's very tricky to sit with or near a person in pain and NOT rush to sooth, comfort and STOP their pain (so yours will also be stopped!). I had several friends and even therapist rush to shut me up with soft tissues and stupid, unhelpful comments about my painful feelings. Fortunately for me, my 2nd wife had the GUTS to let me grieve, weep, curse and rage in her presence until most of the bottled up emotional poison was vented and released. LOL, my 1st wife could not and would not handle it. She was unwittingly carrying a huge bundle of her own unfinished business but she lived in deep denial of her own damaged and painful feelings. Oh well..............
     
  7. Arbutus Eric

    Arbutus Eric Member

    Hello Emily! I love seeing younger people interested in the afterlife. It just means that you have that much more time on this earth to serve spirit, may you choose to do so! Have you tried reading Roberta's books ? They aren't long or difficult to read, I think I read one of them in a day because I couldn't stop myself! They will go a long way towards dispelling any ignorance of the subject, and are a great place to start.

    First off, belief implies doubt. This is a highly evidential subject. You don't have to believe anything, nor do you have to experience it for yourself. Let's say you were a prisoner who has never seen the light of day. How many people would you need to tell you that the sky is blue on a sunny day, before you just accepted it as fact? Would thousands of cases proving the afterlife do it? Yes you will find variations as there is a subjective element to every passing, but there is enough objective consistency across the myriad accounts that some facts emerge.

    It is a fact that we are all eternal beings, spirits having a physical experience. It is a fact that we are here to grow spiritually by direct experience, kind of like a workshop in school where you get to try things on for size. Over and over again, we are told that the most important way to achieve this growth is to learn how to love and serve one another. It could be that you have to go down that dark road of selfishness to see where it goes before you are ready to accept that the only thing that matters is love. When you get this, the next step is extending that love to everyone unconditionally, and then to all life, and so on... It is your mission, whether you choose to accept it or not.

    The real challenge is this: We live in a world that has selfishness as a core value, and it looks as if this is a good thing. When it seems as if we are supposed to look out for number one, will we choose to love and serve each other instead? Many people want to make spirituality into a complex problem, and the expectation of complexity results in overlooking the simple truth: Spirituality is love. If you make love your core value, and put selfishness on your naughty list, everything will change. You will have a completely different lens on the world. I've done it, and I can only describe it as enlightenment, which is supposed to be hard to achieve but really isn't! It is right in front of you, hiding in plain sight.

    I could go on, but for me the message of the afterlife is the key. Your friend's father is alive and well, and probably more than a little distraught at the grief his daughter is feeling. But if this whole process results in her growing spiritually, then it was all worth it! If it results in her looking at the evidence and discovering the truth, then her father will be incredibly proud. They'll even throw her a huge party!

    You should be about as afraid of death as you were afraid of your high school graduation. It's just a transition like any other. Do the research, make yourself sure of it, and then put love first! If that's a little too much too soon, at least you can make progress in the right direction. Any progress towards love is good. May it be so for you and your friend, Emily!

    Love.
    Eric
     
  8. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    It's good to see you here, Emily! To answer your questions quickly:

    1) The evidence that our minds are eternal and that we cycle through repeated lives on earth is so abundant and so consistent that your friends who claim otherwise are simply ignorant. The "afterlife" is actually our genuine home, and we come here briefly to grow spiritually very much as we might go to a gym. Not sure what "human origins" means, but since we go back and forth between here and there it only makes sense that these places and our bodies in them would resemble one another!

    2) Your mind is quite literally ETERNAL. You live many lives, and because time does not objectively exist there is considerable evidence that all your lives are being lived simultaneously and they influence one another. We agree to accept amnesia for our life in the Summerland and our other earth-lives before we are born, but that amnesia is not perfect and often children in their first few years of a new lifetime will retain some memories from prior to this most recent birth. They fade as the child grows.

    I hope this helps, dear!
     
  9. Emily E.

    Emily E. New Member

    Thanks for the answers, it does help me a bit. I almost forgot about the reincarnation stories, which I also find interesting as well. It does make me open to the idea that we lived lives before our current ones.

    About the "human origins" thing, it's based on how a lot of people view the soul and afterlife as being a religious thing, and how religion is often claimed to be "man-made", and originating back then before people didn't have a grasp on science or knowledge, but I'm curious if there any evidence that the idea of a soul or afterlife isn't entirely of religious or "man-made" origins. Because, if I must be honest, with so many scientific breakthroughs, it's sometimes hard to not view the ideas as being "ancient myths" in this day and age. One of the reasons why I came here is to find out if they are really, truly more than that.

    As for my friend, she's doing okay. My other friends and I are giving her support, and while still sad, she's feeling a bit better.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2017
  10. bluebird

    bluebird Well-Known Member

    Emily,

    I don't know if you've read any of my posts or comments, but simply put, I am agnostic verging on atheist when it comes to the idea of god, and agnostic when it comes to the possibility of an afterlife.

    With that said, I would like to point out that it is possible that souls and an afterlife exist, independently of the formation and existence of various religions. That is, I tend to view religions as almost certainly based on ancient myths, ways that primitive humans (and more modern ones) created and used in an attempt to decipher and understand the world around them and the way in which that world functioned. However, that doesn't preclude the possibility of souls and an afterlife existing, it only means that if souls and an afterlife do exist, humans probably haven't discovered how all that works. Scientific proofs and breakthroughs also don't preclude that possibility, they are only able to disprove certain incorrect myths (such as the idea of the Earth being 6,000 years old, for example, as many fundamentalist Christians believe). It is quite possible for an individual to hold both spiritual views and scientific views, without internal conflict (provided that individual doesn't feel the need to adhere to any strict religious doctrine).

    Of course, I may be wrong, but I did just want to point out that it's not necessarily an "either/or" situation. ;)
     
  11. Emily E.

    Emily E. New Member

    That helps answer my question, Bluebird :)

    And I tend to be agnostic as well, with my view of God being rather deistic. I guess I somewhat share your beliefs.
     
  12. bluebird

    bluebird Well-Known Member

    Thanks; I'm glad I was able to help a bit. :)
    I would be interested in hearing more about your view of god, if you are willing to expound upon it.
     
  13. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    Emily, there are religious terms - "soul" and "heaven" are two - and there are scientific terms. And never the twain shall meet! But there also is a great deal of very consistent evidence of the following:

    1) What we experience as human consciousness is the source of everything that we think of as real (the great quantum physicist Max Planck said this, as have many others).

    2) Each human mind is part of the one Mind that continuously manifests this universe, and also manifests everything else that we perceive to be real;

    3) Each human mind is eternal by definition, since it exists outside of time; and it is this mind that religions call the "soul."

    The same is true of the religious concept of heaven: there are many energy-based realities from which we come to earth and to which we return after death, so there is no heaven as religions perceive heaven but there are indeed other realities!
     
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  14. Emily E.

    Emily E. New Member

    (Sorry for the late reply, I've just been busy)

    So my own interpretation of God is that he simply just doesn't control the laws of science nor does he control fate. I also don't think prayer really works (though I'm not against it; I like to think of prayer as a reflection and about wishing good luck to those who suffer misfortunes).

    I don't think this would completely qualify as "deism" though, but I do like to believe that there is a deity out there that does care about us, but again I don't think he would really want to have control on our lives, and just leave us to do our own thing and take care of problems ourselves.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2017
  15. bluebird

    bluebird Well-Known Member

    Emily,

    Thank you for explaining your view on god.

    I suppose that to me, the sort of being that you have described wouldn't qualify as a "god", though I would still prefer that being to any of the versions of god described by the fundamentalists of any religion.

    In your view, what is the purpose of god? Do you believe that it created us and/or everything else? Do you believe that it cares about us?

    I would be interested in your answers, but please don't feel compelled to answer if you would prefer not to. :)
     
  16. Emily E.

    Emily E. New Member

    I wouldn't know what a god's purpose would be for creating us, but I assume it's up to us to take care of this planet and help create a purpose here.

    That's just my theory.
     
  17. bluebird

    bluebird Well-Known Member

    Sounds like a reasonable theory to me. :)
     
  18. Arbutus Eric

    Arbutus Eric Member

    No worries! Just keep your minds open for the truth when you are ready for it:

    "You can have a great soul, who is an agnostic, and you can have a poor soul, who is religious. The greatness of the soul is not measured by belief, but by action" - Silver Birch
     
  19. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    :) Dear Silver Birch - long gone, sadly missed, but what a wonderful legacy he left.
     
  20. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    We certainly should feel an obligation not to trash the place and try to look after things rather better than we're doing right now. Most wouldn't do it to their personal home so why do it to our global home?

    We don't have any obligations toward creating a purpose here because the purpose of this dimension was created by the creative energy that brought about all life, all things.
     
  21. Arbutus Eric

    Arbutus Eric Member

    The way I'm receiving his wisdom, I'd say he's very much in the world today. Reading his books is like having a conversation because I can't get more than a few pages before answering some question that was on my mind. I've never experienced anything like it, certainly not my reading of the bible. I'm looking for a set of his books now, the first paper books I will have purchased in several years. If anyone knows of a set somewhere send me a message!

    Emily, if you have time to read, you might also check out any of Silver Birch's books. Teachings of Silver Birch is a good place to start.
     
  22. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    http://www.silverbirchpublishing.co.uk/books.php

    Let me know if you do decide you'd like to buy some books and I'll telephone the supplier to see how payment can be made etc.

    I agree with your thoughts that SB is still very much of this world if not exactly in this world. Like you I used to find - over three decades ago now - that what I was searching for I often 'stumbled upon' somewhere in one of the compilation books of his teachings.

    And I also found a very great deal I hadn't ever thought of!
     
  23. Arbutus Eric

    Arbutus Eric Member

    I sent an email to the publisher asking if they had a set to sell. I'm in no rush! And thank you Mac for offering to assist me with the purchase, but they offer US shipping on their site so I don't think it will be too much trouble for them to send it to me.

    Now then...
     
  24. Arbutus Eric

    Arbutus Eric Member

    Emily, this has been bothering me a bit... Things that are patently untrue have that effect. If it was a matter of belief or opinion, I might have an easier time letting it go, so I apologize in advance if I offend your beliefs regarding prayer. Prayer is like supercharged intentions that have a profound affect on our world. They don't always seem to work, but usually this is because what is happening must happen for the greater good and to fulfill natural law... Or the intention of the prayer is selfish, or the person doing the praying is too spiritually young. There are a lot of inter-playing factors that make it complicated. After reading your post, that same evening I was about 10 minutes into my latest Silver Birch book when I had part of the answer:

    "If the prayer is merely a request of a selfish nature, it is an indication of the state of evolution which the individual has reached, and it is obvious that the prayer cannot produce any real effect. If the prayer is one that is unselfish, and has as its primary motive the desire to serve, that is an indication of the spiritual nature of the individual. By virtue of his evolution, he has already given wings to that prayer and it possesses a potency that is the direct result of his own spiritual attainment. Such a prayer automatically creates the conditions which will bring response. It is all controlled by the stage in evolution which the individual has reached." Silver Birch, from The Spirit Speaks

    It all comes down to your intentions. If we fully realized how powerful loving intentions can be, and how weak negative intentions really are, we would not hesitate to use this power whenever the opportunity comes to serve. It may not be enough to change events, but it always has an effect on both you and the recipient. It is our free will used in a divine manner, and is probably the most effective tool we have for influencing the world. And it has nothing at all to do with luck, which doesn't exist anyways because what we think of as luck is really just natural law operating in a manner that we don't understand.

    Whew off my soap box now!
     
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  25. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    soap box? wonderful comments! How I delight when someone else quotes beloved Silver Birch's simple, eloquent teachings to answer a posting.

    But as with understanding prayer or why we're here in this world at all the personal spiritual progress of any individual constrains whether SB's words and ideas. When you're ready for them they will ring true but not until then.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2017
  26. Arbutus Eric

    Arbutus Eric Member

    It makes me wonder how much influence we can have over the process, but it seems like someone has to say something. A good story analogy comes up from the Emperor's New Clothes, with a twist. I feel just like the child shouting, "Look, the emperor has no clothes!" Except that this time only a few people are willing to see it, while everyone else is convinced that he is wearing clothes. I'm hoping that if I keep pointing it out to people, some might be close enough to understanding where they might say, "sure enough, he isn't wearing any!" And realize that all of this is about learning how to love.

    As you can see, Silver Birch's words fell on fertile ground with me! I appreciate your experience with this matter, Mac. It is useful information for me going forward.
     
  27. jimrich

    jimrich Active Member

    I'd say that they were too AFRAID to openly say what they knew to be true whereas the child didn't yet know any better and was therefore free to be honest. The few "willing to see it" were still too afraid to openly say so. The child was probably not punished for speaking up since kids are not taken seriously anyway.

    I'd say all of this is about having the courage to be honest - like the child in that fable who didn't yet know how to be dishonest and/or afraid of the Emperor.
     
  28. Denise

    Denise New Member

    I've just found this site and am so glad that there is a place where we can discuss the afterlife and share the experiences we have had. I had the same experience as Emily at a young age of suddenly realising one day that we will all die, it was very upsetting at that moment wondering if there would be anything after death, but after years of searching for the truth and receiving proof of the afterlife, I now know that it does exist. Proof of course is personal, and what is proof to one person may not be proof to another, but I know that when we experience loss through the death of a loved one, it is often hard to accept that they have gone. We experience pain and loneliness and are often left wondering why? We also wonder how such a vibrant energy that lived and loved and became such an important part of our lives could now be gone. Where are they? I have learnt that we are not just flesh, we are spirit living within a body of flesh for a short time. We were not created to live eternally on the earth, but a home in the world of spirit - heaven - has been created for us all, it is our true home to which we will all go at the end of this physical life. Spirit is eternal and the material is only temporary. The home of the spirit lies in a place that exists beyond our physical world and eyes, but it exists never the less. When the last breath is taken upon this earth, the spirit rises from it's physical body and is usually met by loved ones who have gone before and who have waited patiently for this reunion when those who love are reunited in death. Love between spirits in the flesh and spirits in the heavens never dies but grows stronger, we are all spirit. There is a greater life that awaits us all for death is certain for us all and so is resurrection, for when we finally close our eyes upon this physical world, they will in the twinkling of an eye reopen in a world of light, love and beauty. Death the great liberator of earthly pain and troubles is not to be feared but to be acknowledged as a part of life and indeed is a door to eternal life promised to all no matter who you are or what your religious beliefs are while living on the earth. It is a great comfort to know that this life does not just end at the grave but that we were all created to live on and to eventually meet up with all those we have loved and lost. All we can do is live our lives in the best way that we can respecting each other and sharing what we have learnt, we are human with the ability to love and care for each other.
     
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  29. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    It's always good to see new contributors on ALF's forum pages and even better when we don't face the often difficult task of trying to explain to them the notion of survival. :)
     
  30. jimrich

    jimrich Active Member

    I am often mystified by the notion of "proof", especially as it applies to the mysteries of spirit, the Afterlife and anything "paranormal". I'd be very interested to hear about your search for the "truth" and what you now know about the existence orf the Afterlife. This is not a challenge! I have my own story of how I now know about the Afterlife and some spiritual matters BUT I could never "prove" it to anybody else so I am both satisfied with what I now know and am able to share with interested others. Some are interested but most are not so no amount of "proof" would ever satisfy a skeptic and I don't blame them. Please share you experiences and "proof" of the existence of the Afterlife in whatever way you can. I very deeply enjoy and appreciate the "stories" and testimonies of those who have witnessed or experienced friends and loved ones who have crossed over to the Afterlife - our true and eternal home - above and beyond, yet still part of this temporary, difficult Earth plane.

    I had the same question when Jimmy, our brother in law, died of cancer and then suddenly, he appeared to me hovering over his now dead body in their bedroom and we began a unique, telepathic communication which went on for days. He was not "met by" others in his Dis-incarnate form but was quite alone and ever so happy and FREE. There is so much to this story that I'd better stop here. I can only say that the entire experience "proved" all that I will ever need to KNOW about the existence of a wonderful, beautiful and happy Afterlife and that it is the destination of every physical form in the Earth plane - including plants, rocks, water, air, space, emotions, etc. IMO, "proof" is mostly a personal experience and need not be demonstrated or "proven" to others except where this proof has an impact on their lives like proving the existence of infectious diseases and other dangerous things.

    Please share with us what you currently know about the Afterlife, based on your own direct experiences, unless its too personal to openly divulge. Most of what I personally know about the Afterlife and spirit is written elsewhere at this forum so there's no need to quote all of that in here.
    Thank you for what you have written so far.
    jim
     
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