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Discussion in 'NDE The near-death-experience forum' started by Ask21771, Jan 30, 2018.

  1. Ask21771

    Ask21771 New Member

    the Bible warns about false prophets who use signs and wonders to decieve people and I know most nde survivors get psychic powers after their experience so now I'm starting to think that the false prophets spoken of in the Bible are nde survivors, please help me, what do most nde survivors do after their ndes do they go out and use their powers to change people's thinking?
    Kurt likes this.
  2. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    Ed, clearly you know nothing about me and for you to assume and judge this way is ridiculous. I have a college major in early Christian history, and I have read the Bible from cover to cover maybe six or eight times, and the NT twice as many times. I was raised in a vanilla mainline Protestant church and have never been a fundamentalist, or anything close to it. I have, though, been zealously Protestant (to the point where I planned to become a minister), and then a devout Catholic after my marriage. You know nothing about me, and the fact that you are so ready to judge and dismiss me shows that you also know nothing about the Gospel teachings of Jesus.

    To be perfectly blunt about all the 40,000-odd denominations of Christianity, sayin' ain't doin'! The very fact that the body of Christ has been so incredibly divided by His followers, many of whom insist that everyone who doesn't believe what they believe will go to hell, is telling, don't you think? And even with so many flavors of Christianity, there is no denomination that does more than choose bits from the Gospels, often selectively editing them, and then use them to teach dogmas that the Jesus of the Gospels would abhor.

    Christianity as Paul created it is fear-based ("Claim Jesus as your Savior and be "saved," or go to hell!) and not love-based, which makes Christianity as most people practice it antithetical to the teachings of Jesus. And you're right in thinking that my study of the afterlife evidence has helped me very much! Among other things, I have learned that:

    1) God does not judge us, nor does any other religious figure. Instead, we face the toughest judge of all: ourselves.

    2) There is no fiery hell and no permanent damnation, no matter what you do.

    3) There is no evidence that the death of Jesus on the cross has ever made an afterlife difference for anyone. Good grief, just think about what a tremendous insult to God that Christian teaching is! God has to watch Jesus die horribly before God can forgive the rest of us?

    4) There is no evidence that to have been a Christian makes a difference in the afterlife. Everybody gets there, without exception; the only differentiation is that those who are more spiritually advanced live much richer post-death lives. Having lived according to the teachings of Jesus turns out to make a tremendous difference - even if you never have heard of Jesus - which is the main reason why I am so down on modern Christianity. Christian leaders have the keys to the kingdom right there in the Gospels! But instead they emphasize literal garbage like sacrificial redemption. As Jesus would say, "Indeed the axe is already laid at the root of the trees; so every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.” (LK 3:9) As soon as we have more reliable communication with those that we used to think were dead, the rottenness of Christianity's fruit will be plain for all to see.

    5) God is perfectly loving Spirit, and God is all that exists. God never takes a human form, and God has no human failings (e.g. anger, jealousy)

    So... what is left of Christianity as it is presently practiced, Ed?

    Not much.

    If we can get rid of all the false dogmas, then what we will have left will be the Gospel teachings... which is what Christianity should have been all along. Only the truth, as Jesus brought it to us. “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” (JN 8:31-32)
  3. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    Actually, it turns out that Jesus was teaching spiritual physics. His teachings are the simplest and most effective way to raise our spiritual vibration and grow spiritually, and it can happen very quickly! He doesn't say "try" - He says "do"... and if you literally do exactly what He teaches, you can transform yourself to the point where you can make this your last necessary earth-lifetime.
    kim marine likes this.
  4. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    This is pure garbage, Ask, and from the way you say it clearly you know that it's garbage. Some people here are coming to suspect that you are a troll, and this post makes me think they might be right. Please clean up your act if you want to remain here.
    kim marine likes this.
  5. bluebird

    bluebird Well-Known Member

    If Ask is concerned as to what the bible says about "false prophets", then at the very least s/he must be a christian in hiding, pretending to be otherwise.
  6. pandora97

    pandora97 Active Member

    This is the third thread Ask has started here asking the same question. I'm wondering how many answers he needs to the same question.:(
  7. Ed A.

    Ed A. Member

    What I know of you, I know from your books and participation on the forum. Whatever the denomination, my sense is that you were immersed in a rather narrow-minded, rigid sort of Christianity, and now you're turning these same attitudes on "Christianity."

    When I came to the forum, I was astonished to discover how negative you are towards religion and Christianity in particular. You preach love and forgiveness, but you don't extend it to Christians. I guess you haven't known any good ones. Which is strange; I know many.

    I was also surprised at how ridiculous some of your statements about religion are. For instance, you said we need to kill religion, and this should take about 10 years to accomplish. I find that laughable and also sad (how intolerant you are of others' belief systems)

    I won't defend the actions of some Christians, but pretending that's all there is to the story is a very distorted picture. You have a skewed and very negative slant on Christianity. You actually remind me of the aggressive posture of a lot of atheists.

    A few things on the afterlife lit:

    I've read NDE accounts where people do feel judged. And there is a "judgment" of sorts, in that people get assigned to particular heavenly levels, based on their advancement, and some to "the outer darkness," because of their lack of it.

    I'm glad there is some form of judgement by a standard outside ourselves. The whole "no one judging me but me" sounds like modern moral relativism to me; "I'm the judge of what's right and wrong; no one else should judge me besides me; I'm the final arbiter."

    It's actually a very corrupted sort of morality, without any real objective moral grounding.

    Beyond that, though, I don't want a sociopath, sadist, or serial killer judging himself. They may feel some discomfort in the life review, when they feel things from their victim's perspective, but a big part of the impact of those life reviews is based on empathy, sympathy, and regret (which is based on conscience). These fellows do not have empathy, regret, or conscience. They will not be bothered by the fact that they killed others or made them suffer. They may very well enjoy it.

    I'm glad there is an external standard for truth/goodness, outside of the individual person. That's pretty much what we mean by God. If it's all only about us and what we think about ourselves, I think we've lost the thread.

    There are millions of people who have come to belief in God through contemplating the cross. That certainly "makes a difference in the afterlife" (not to mention in the current life) for those people.

    Of course your spiritual beliefs make a difference, both here and in the afterlife. We have many accounts that reference Christ and Christianity.

    As for "everybody gets there, without exception," we do not know that. The majority of people who "die" and then come back do not have an NDE. Why?

    You make a lot of bold claims about what "the evidence" says, but it often rests on accounts by mediums which are by their very nature unverifiable. I find those accounts interesting to read, but I wouldn't take them to prove anything about the afterlife, except that it exists.
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2018
    bluebird and enby like this.
  8. Amore

    Amore Active Member

    Plus many threads in other forums with the same theme - and the same results.
  9. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    I've noticed that Christians say "I've been saved by the blood!" Even though I don't take the typical "Christian" stance on life I do study the Bible and in Revelation Jesus talks often about overcoming the world. That is what I want to do: Overcome. I don't want to merely just be "saved". It is better to learn to swim and overcome the need of the pool Lifeguard to have to continuously save you from drowning. I feel it is best to follow the man who was the perfect image of God so we can overcome this world instead of always "being saved by his blood."
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2018
  10. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    I was thinking about this last night before I even read your post, Roberta! I was thinking how silly it was that God didn't love us enough to forgive our sins until Jesus shed his blood so we could be cleansed of them. That is so thoughtless!
  11. Ed A.

    Ed A. Member

    It's a shame some Christians seem to have been taught this. To borrow from NT Wright, it's as if people haven't been taught that God so loved the world that he gave his only son, but that God so hated the world that he killed his only son. It's a poor interpretation of what happened, but it certainly is the message that a lot of Christians have gotten.

    If that's all people have heard, I don't blame them for rejecting that God and that type of Christianity. I struggled with this myself for a while. Fortunately, there are much better interpretations of what happened on the cross than that.
    enby likes this.
  12. Ed A.

    Ed A. Member

    I didn't check his post history. If that's true, we're definitely being trolled.

    You can also tell by how he really doesn't respond to anyone's points (except with one-liner dismissals), just keeps returning to his own.
  13. genewardsmith

    genewardsmith Active Member

    There are also better interpretations outside of orthodox Christianity. ACIM understands both the crucifixion and the resurrection quite differently, and attaches great importance to the latter.
  14. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    We don't know for certain, at least initially, whether a particular member is a troll but if you're unsure I have a suggestion - DON'T FEED THE (suspected) TROLL.

    Not all members exhibiting the behavior remarked upon by members here will be trolls, however, and some behaviors associated with mental/emotional difficulties may resemble trolling.

    It might be better to engage just with those members prepared to engage properly with you and ignore the ones who give one-liner replies or simply ignore points you make.
    bluebird and ravensgate like this.
  15. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    I experienced something incomprehensible during the NDE I went through, and different aspects of the NDE keep winking at me during my life on this earth. By "winking" I am referring to living what I saw or experienced during the NDE, 34 years ago, all over again. I saw images of different events in an ordinary life, but the only thing was I wasn't experiencing them on this earth. I thought, for sure, that I was on the earth, but I wasn't. My guides kept encouraging me to return to my body, but I was very confused. I asked them how I was supposed to return to my body when I was living in it already! I saw many things that I had known on this earth, but I was unconscious of life in the body that I am living in now and conscious of life in what seemed to be a body somewhere else. I know that now, but I didn't know it then!:confused:
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2018
  16. Ed A.

    Ed A. Member

    I think it's probably best I step out of this forum. I've lost a lot of respect for Roberta, and it's her forum. If I remain, I'm just going to get into arguments and be a disruptive influence.

    It's not good for me to listen to unbalanced and virulently anti-Christian messaging from the admin/owner of the site. It doesn't disturb my beliefs -- I was agnostic/non-believer for 20 years, and I've sorted through a ton of atheist arguments and objections to Christianity (this is child's play compared to that) -- but it just doesn't feel congruent with where I am headed spiritually.

    So, it's best if I leave. I've enjoyed meeting several of you. I wish you the best.
  17. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    What is ACIM?
  18. bluebird

    bluebird Well-Known Member

    I have enjoyed your posts, and I respect your viewpoints and agree with a fair few of them. I would prefer you stay and contribute here, but I completely understand if you feel that you cannot.
  19. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    I'd also prefer that you stayed but you must do what feels right for you.
  20. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    Ed, you know nothing whatsoever about the afterlife evidence. I get that. So there is little point in our continuing to discuss this, but since you have put your opinions into this thread I feel the need to answer your post for others who are actually seekers. I wish I had more time to respond, but I have said it all elsewhere on ALF; here are just a few facts.

    1) NDEs and actual death are two entirely different phenomena. This is basic stuff! Only the greenest rookies in this field consider the experiences of NDE-ers to be in any way evidence of what happens at actual death. In the ACTUAL afterlife, there is NO religion practiced; in fact, in the ACTUAL afterlife, having been too devoutly religious can be a tremendous handicap. NDEs prove that our minds easily leave our bodies and return, and they give us a flavor of the fact that the astral areas are love-based. But that is the sum total of everything that afterlife researchers can learn from NDEs!

    2) The afterlife evidence is a great deal more than a few accounts from "fallible mediums." I spent close to forty years in studying nearly two hundred years of abundant and consistent afterlife evidence of ALL kinds before I wrote The Fun of Dying, and what is wonderful is that everyone else who has made the same journey has reached precisely the same conclusions. Your assumption that this or that fact that I have mentioned cannot be true because it violates your own beliefs is irrelevant, Ed, since you are trying to understand with access to maybe 5% of your powerful eternal mind complex truths that are far greater than anything you can even imagine from the earth-plane; and furthermore, you are trying to wing it without doing any actual research.

    3) You have not read any of my books. All the Fun books have appendices on how the afterlife evidence wonderfully validates the Gospel teachings of Jesus, but also it absolutely proves that all the teachings of Christianity on sacrificial redemption, judgment, hell, and the other human-made dogmas are garbage.

    4) It is BECAUSE I love Christians that I am begging them to open their hearts to Jesus and let Him lead them to leave the false, human-built religion that has them trapped in fear so they can accept with joy the love-based truths that Jesus came to teach us! If you saw children playing in traffic, would you not try to rescue them? Or would you say, "Okay, kids, you'll get hit by a car, but you will at least have learned that cars are dangerous so maybe you'll avoid them the next time around." And boy, if you think that I'm down on Christianity, you should ask Jesus Himself how He feels about the religion that claims Him but doesn't take His teachings seriously :-(.

    5) If you think that I'm intolerant of religions, have you looked at the way I talk about mainstream science? What I am intolerant of is IGNORANCE, and especially of those who TEACH AND FOSTER ignorance. And you are conflating my intolerance of the false beliefs from which I am trying to rescue people with my somehow being therefore intolerant of the people who are trapped in those false beliefs. THERE ARE IN FACT OBJECTIVE TRUTHS. And Jesus came to help us find those truths!

    When you have discovered something important that can help people very much, it is not a kindness to keep it to yourself. True, there are people like you who want to snap-judge and dismiss me, but I shrug. If you won't take the time to do enough research to begin to understand what I'm actually saying, then I have no hope of enlightening you about anything. JESUS CALLS US TO FIND THE TRUTH. "Seek and you will find... " I gave you that quotation above. And He is impatient with those who think they can call themselves His followers if they just follow some man-made religious dogmas without making His teachings the whole point of their spiritual effort!

    “Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?”
    (LK 6:46). “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven will enter” (MT 7:21). “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” (JN 8:31-32)

    Ed, the day finally came when I knew I would have to make a choice. I could continue to stay in the religion that I loved, or I could follow Jesus. Tragically, until we replace the false Christian dogmas with the teachings of the Lord, that is EVERYONE's choice! But I can assure anyone who has reached the same point that I arrived at 15 year ago that you can with confidence choose Jesus. The Lord alone is enough!
    kim marine likes this.
  21. Bill Z

    Bill Z Active Member

    I hope you stay. Your insights are valuable I think. I was brought Roman Catholic and fed a lot of BS. The bible has been rewritten so many times under the direction of whoever was in power at the time. I trust the Nag Hammadi more. Or the Thomas Jefferson bible where he only puts in the words of Jesus.

    "he so loved the world, etc" bothers me. He created the world and the problems of the world and he's gonna send his son to take the fall for it!? That "god" needs to take responsibility and step up to the plate. I can not accept that being as "god". The Nag Hammadi refers to this "god" as the archons or the demiurge.

    This is a valuable, helpful site for me. Many people searching and agreeing or disagreeing but learning. There are a lot of grieving people here and we get emotional. Hope that makes sense.

    Kim ACIM is A Course in Miracles.
  22. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    Bill, you're right. The afterlife evidence indicates that the Source is nothing like the Christian God, which is based on the Old Testament's cranky Jehovah. Instead, the genuine God is what Jesus told us that God is: infinitely powerful and perfectly loving Spirit.
    kim marine likes this.
  23. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    That is the way I view the afterlife too! I am an intense wonderer and I don't stop trying to quench my wonders unless they can be quenched with love! I wonder how Gods' breath became visible, and since God spoke this world into existence doesn't it all boil down to God anyway? I wonder, sarcastically, what did God want or hope to accomplish by filling this earth with a bunch of "sinners", as we are so casually called by some? If God is invisible, and NEVER changes why are we visible and considered to be children of God? That question is reserved for those who are limited thinkers. Aren't we supposed to love someone who speaks differently than we do? What credit is it to ones' character to care or love about someone who talks or thinks just as you they do? My love is radical, because I've experienced where it can take me through the NDE which is still manifesting on the outside of me during my life on earth!
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2018
  24. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    Oh, yes! I have that book, but I forgot what the ACIM was. I bought it after Roberta suggested it. I love it.
    genewardsmith likes this.
  25. genewardsmith

    genewardsmith Active Member

    A Course in Miracles.
  26. Kurt

    Kurt Active Member


    the most entertaining thread I have seen in awhile... This guy Ed A. Has a terrific sense of humor.

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