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Ndes involving Satan

Discussion in 'Afterlife Evidence' started by Ask21771, May 5, 2017.

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  1. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    I think that talking about "real" or "unreal" and deciding that this material world is one or the other misses the point. In fact, MUCH about this material world is not remotely as we perceive it! For example: there is no solid matter, but everything is energy (according to both Einstein & Planck); we are told that less than half of what we think we see actually comes through our eyes (e.g. images are upside-down on our retinas so our minds have to right them, and our minds also fill in images apparently without our knowing it); and so on. There is more and more evidence that our minds can affect matter much more than we imagine, and all the afterlife evidence begins to suggest that consciousness is the base reality (as Planck also said).

    I think it is likely more accurate to first define "real" and "unreal" more precisely, and by the definitions that we choose we can then assign these descriptors!
    kim likes this.
  2. Ed A.

    Ed A. Active Member

    Yes, and I doubt anyone here wants to try to tackle that question, which has kept philosophers busy for millenia.
    kim likes this.
  3. Ed A.

    Ed A. Active Member

    Yeah, mac said something similar early on. Without good definitions of "real" and "unreal," we really aren't communicating much, except to people who already share our views/perspective. We pressed on anyhow, because it's an interesting thing to talk about, even if we can't exactly pin down what "real" means (without then defining a bunch of other terms and ... down the philosophical rabbit hole we go).

    I notice there are two different things being discussed: 1) Is the world just how we perceive it? 2) Is it unreal/illusory?

    The answer to the first question is clearly no. We know that from psychology, neuroscience, physics, etc. There are all kinds of biases and limitations built into our perceptions. No one sees the world unfiltered. That's not really even up for debate.

    The answer to the second question is more interesting but also more tricky for the reason we just mentioned (people have different ideas about what "real" means to them).

    Here's how I like to view it (take it fwiw). I'll use an example. If you look at the world through a microscope, it suddenly looks very different -- microorganisms, cells, etc. If you look at it through an electron microscope, it looks different still -- atoms, protons, neutrons... If you put it in a particle accelerator, again it looks very different -- quarks, gluons, leptons, all the rest. If you keep increasing your level of magnification, you eventually get a quantum field. Is one of these levels "real" and the others unreal? No. They're all real enough, within their own level.

    Seen from another level, they may be "illusory," because that view disappears when you see things from a different level (e.g., when you're looking at the level of protons and neutrons, the worlds of ameobas and bacteria disappears from your view). Doesn't mean it doesn't exist; you just don't see it from that level. So, it's a matter of what level of magnification you're using (or what perspective you are viewing things from). It's all reality, just seen or experienced from different levels.
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2017
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  4. mac

    mac Staff Member

    "It's all reality, just seen or experienced from different levels."

    spot on! :)

    Every dimension of existence, every kind of experience we may have in any of them, is just as real as any other. And each has a unique value.
    Ed A. and kim like this.
  5. kim

    kim Regular Contributor

    I really liked this. I experienced different dimensions of reality when I was in a coma. I thought at that time, I was living my life on the planet you and I are currently inhabiting. I was always urged to wake up, but I couldn't understand because it appeared that I was alive. But then again my body was lying on a hospital bed. When I always refused to wake up that just led to more extraterrestrial experiences in my mind as dreams. Craig Hogan told me that I had viewed some of the lives I lived before.
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2017
  6. Ed A.

    Ed A. Active Member


    Question - When you say "extraterrestrial," do you mean that some of your past lives were on other planets? Or just that you were experiencing things outside our normal, physical world?
  7. kim

    kim Regular Contributor

    They were just dreams. It happened when I was in a coma, so my body wasn't doing the living, but the eternal part of me, which is the mind, was alive. I was witnessing earlier lives I had lived in consciousness. I did not actually live on another planet!
  8. Ed A.

    Ed A. Active Member

    I see, thanks.
  9. genewardsmith

    genewardsmith Active Member

    I rediscovered the Planck length independently in high school, and I didn't know squat.
  10. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    I think that Dr. Plank figured a lot more out! Just as Thomas Jefferson figured so much out in the area of spirituality - he was an extraordinary Biblical scholar. But both of them had to protect their more traditional work in the eyes of their contemporaries by not revealing everything that they knew.
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