Discussion in 'General Afterlife Discussions' started by Ask21771, Nov 5, 2017.
What percent of ndes contain a "be a good Christian or go to hell" type message?
I can't tell you that in terms of percentages or anything, but speaking anecdotally, I can tell you that I have read a lot of NDE accounts, and most of them are not of that sort. As far as those few I've read that were like that, I believe that the people who experienced them in that way only did so because that is what they expected, not because that is actually what the afterlife (if there is one) is like.
There are no statistics compiled about such issues. What's your interest in the subject?
I've read lots of NDE accounts and can't remember a single one that had that messages. The messages are overwhelmingly those of love, compassion, kindness, care, and forgiveness.
I have found the same to be true of the NDE accounts I have read. Hopefully that truly indicates what the afterlife, if there is one, is actually like.
I have never heard of any NDE that contained a negative message like that, and I have read many! Some NDEs do contain Christian trappings, but in every one that I have seen these bits were pulled from minds of Christians - especially young children - and used to comfort them. Some NDEs ARE negative, and some do actually involve hell; but as soon as the experiencer calls for help, he or she is out of the hell illusion.
Very, very small. But most legalistic or charismatic hellish ones, at least the most famous ones, are fake and have been debunked by different types of people (even other Christians), wanting either just attention or money. The ones that are true I believe were created out of their own beliefs, and does not reflect reality. It reflects their mind. And they contradict themselves.
And no, I'm not going to link or even identify them because I'm not going to waste my time spreading their sick minds and fame around, and I have a strong dislike for those kinds of "testimonies" because I know the majority of them are false and created/embellished by egotistical people who quite literally "make money off of people's misery". There's no point. I can't change your beliefs Ask, but from the knowledge I've gathered, they're a bunch of people with serious issues. (I've had a bad traumatic experience with them, and I want nothing to do with them anymore. They do much more harm than good.)
It's my opinion that you should just pay attention to the real NDEs of unconditional love, and the hellish ones where the people are rescued or at least learn a valuable lesson about their own life. And no, I don't believe they're satanic, or that satan exists, for many reasons. I believe in human ego, that we personified as "satan". Also do much more research into Universalism, you'll find many things that may ease your anxiety and help you put your faith into a genuine all-loving God, not a God of hate and ego.
That being said, I do believe Christians should "walk the talk" and behave like real Christians, and there is a danger of hell (purification), and being a "lukewarm" Christian is never a good thing. And if you're not prepared to die (live more of a bad life than good), there should be some fear there. I agree with them there, but I do not agree about what they believe about salvation and eternity.
(Please listen to us and don't just post one tiny question about your fears and then leave forever because we're not to your satisfaction, or whatever reason you just leave one or two questions and disappear from the radar. I'd rather you just kept it to yourself than be cryptic and "mysterious".)
Let's just leave the Christians - and any other religion's adherent - to decide how they organise their lives, shall we? It's not up to any of us registered members to use this website to tell them they're not doing it right.
Well, actually, Ask didn't ought to be asked to listen to us or to do - or not do - anything. She/he is able to choose for her/himself.
I experienced an NDE, but I was alive! During the lives I witnessed during the NDE I always tried to be "A good Christian" since I thought that was what god wanted. I was wrong. God wanted me to Be Who I am, and basically I am part of god; part of his breath! Trying to fit the Christian mold is not what god wants. God gives us a life to live through the Spirit, and there is no fruit of the Spirit that instructs us to specifically "be a good Christian". The fruits of the Spirit are: love, joy, peace, patience kindness, goodness, gentleness, faithfulness and self-control.
God did something in the beginning of the creation of this world that should tell us that god doesn't want us thinking and talking alike. (There is nothing mature in Being like that.) That time was the building of Tower of Babel. God was displeased that they were able to communicate so well in order to achieve such an enormous task, so He decided to put a curve in the road and make any of their future achievements more challenging by confusing their language. Now we are trying to build a sustainable world using all of the frequencies of god's breath.
Not so very long ago you were telling me you're not religious. So where did the notions and words in your second paragraph come from?
My question is rhetorical of course.
The "Tower of Babel" is a story, not a literal accounting of a real event. Like many stories/mythologies, it was created/written by humans in an attempt to understand something in their lives -- in this case, the reason and history behind the diversity of human languages.
Besides, if the story were true, why would any "god" worthy of being god have a problem with or be displeased by a variety of humans being able to communicate so well that they could band together to complete a difficult task? That doesn't make sense. Instead, that god should be proud of those individuals.
Not that I think everyone should talk or think alike; quite the contrary -- but the "Tower of Babel" story has nothing to do with it.
Common sense, mainly, concerning the "Tower of Babel" story. The purpose of story and mythology is to try to understand the world and humanity, and the shared human experience.
My second paragraph, about what god's view of humans attempting such a task would be, is my opinion only.
I love how the OP characterizes "Be a good Christian or go to hell" as a "pro-Christian" message. Yeah, that's some pro-Christian messaging all right.
This is just my interpretation: Since we still do not and can not know what exactly is at the center of our origin I will just say as Max Planck: that is an intelligent mind, I'll call it IM. That IM desires that we mirror its invisible image. We can see that we are not because our earth is suffering. If we depended on the IMs vibes within us it would be like heaven on earth. But we don't depend on the IMs vibes within us because we like to rely on our ego's. The origin of matter was not created by one frequency. The IM wants ALL of its frequencies to exist harmoniously together. When all of IMs vibes are combined physicality is projected. If the people all stuck together so the Tower could be built, different languages and thoughts were not going to be cultivated, because they were depending on there OWN intellect instead of the IMs. More than just a dinky tower can be built from the IMs frequencies and that has enabled us to build what we have so far. But now IMs frequencies are divided even though we have learned to travel and communicate at higher degrees. But first we have to settle the thoughts and attitudes within our minds, because if we have them here we'll have them when we leave this earth. It is up to us. The people in the Bible were ignorant about some things, but not anymore ignorant than we are about what they weren't.
You mean regarding the purpose of story and mythology? I don't think "evidence" is required, it is very clear that that is the purpose of those things, but all you need to do is to look at how it has been used in human history. There are often other purposes as well, besides an attempt to understand the world, humanity, and the shared human experience (for example, sometimes another purpose might be to try to convince others of one's point of view; yet another might be as a way of teaching one's children the prevailing morality of one's tribe or religion; yet another might be simply as entertainment, etc.), but certainly one of the main reasons why mythology has been so prevalent in most societies/civilizations is because so many humans have an innate curiosity and need to try to figure out the world in which they live, and prior to advanced scientific understanding, mythology was the way most societies/civilizations attempted to do that.
If you still feel you need evidence, and want to read more about this, I suggest picking up a few books by writer/teacher/historian/mythologist Joseph Campbell, as he is one of the leading experts in the field. He posits that mythology serves four primary functions in society: Metaphysical (the symbols and metaphors in mythology are helpful to people in trying to understand and perhaps touch, in some way, the mystery of the universe); Cosmological (in which people use myths as a way to try to explain the events they deal with in their lives, prior to real scientific understanding on the part of humanity at large; there are many examples of myths concerning natural events such as the rising & setting of the sun, the changing of the seasons and the life cycles of crops, etc.; this function is closest to what I was describing); Sociological (myths were often used to reinforce the prevailing morality of a particular tribe or society, and to try to make others conform to that morality); and Pedagogical (myths could be helpful as a way to guide people through their lives and the challenges/difficulties they would experience).
I don't believe that there is a god, but if there is, I don't think we humans can really know what it might want. If it does exist and if it is a loving/kind being, then it stands to reason it would want us to love one another, but even that is supposition/opinion.
The entire field of linguistics. While it's possible that people built a tower -- after all, humans have built many towers -- god, if there is such a being, didn't come down and scramble their language abilities to make them speak various languages. There were already a multitude of human languages.
He does want us to love one another but he also gave us free will to hate one another if we so desire. If he didn't the love we have for others would be something he freely gave us instead of us developing our characters.
I agree that we have free will.
Of coarse not. The Spirit Who gives us life led people to migrate to different locations. The different languages developed on their own.
What is Anu?
".....emigrating from the destruction of Atlantis."
That the Tower of Babel story is an absurdity is probably a clue. Well-known science fiction author Ted Chiang wrote a story imagining what it would be like if Genesis were true history. It's fun stuff, but we've learned more about cosmology since Genesis was written. The world isn't flat, for one thing, and we can't get to the dome of the heavens since there isn't one, for another. But that's what people believed at that time and place.
Yes, as the story relays the idea that humanity spoke one language until people began building the Tower of Babel, at some point during which god became angry at their attempt to reach god/heaven via the Tower they were building; in turn, god caused them to speak multiple languages so that they would no longer be able to communicate in order to finish the Tower. According to the story.
Linguistics demonstrates the ways in which various languages actually arose throughout the course of human history, when certain languages branched off from others, how the grammar and syntax of various languages evolved, etc, all of which occurred at least in part due to human migration. All of that did not occur in one instant, at the whim of an angry god.
We may disagree on how that occurred, but we agree on the outcome.
It isn't, actually, but you are welcome to hold whatever opinion you like.
I've explained to you what the field of linguistics is, so I don't know why you're still saying "whatever that is" in reference to it.
I'll try to explain this to you more simply: In part, linguistics traces the development of the variety of human languages, and in doing so directly contradicts the story of a vengeful god causing humanity to all-at-once speak different languages.
If you prefer to believe in the vengeful god version, feel free to do so.
I said believe in the vengeful god version if you prefer, since you clearly don't believe in the linguistic/historical version. I didn't order you to believe in that version. You are free to believe whatever you like, as we all are.
As for PMs with you, I prefer and choose not to.
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