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Murder-Suicide Pacts...Different for Men than Women?

Discussion in 'Spiritual Growth & Development' started by WWE LOVER, Aug 4, 2013.

  1. I haven't been around for a little while as I don't have internet access too much anymore. Since leaving the job, I have only been reading the odd post, and had to come to a relative's place to post today.

    I saw a news story on Friday. I was pretty hammered when watching the 11 o'clock news as I spent another 7 hours beforehand drinking again, so I don't know if I got the gist of this story correct. But to the best of my recollection, this is how it goes:

    Some mother of two decided to drown her two small children, and then kill herself. Afterwards, a bunch of people went down to the river where this tragedy took place to throw flowers into the river in memory of the children and the mother.

    While this might sound sexist, it made me wonder if people would have felt the same way if the father had done this instead of the mother. Yes, people would still throw flowers into the river for the children, but would they do it for the father too? Or would there be a lot more anger attached to this event?

    Now if something like this gets planned before coming back to Earth - as a life lesson for spiritual growth - would the soul playing the role of the parent carefully decide on gender, or would it not matter? In other words, if forgiveness would be harder for the family and community in general if the parent was the father instead of the mother, would that soul preplan to be of the male gender in order to make the issue of forgiveness harder, for spiritual growth purposes?
     
  2. bluebird

    bluebird Major Contributor

    I don't believe that shit like that gets "planned" before coming to Earth. I think it happens because people are mentally ill, or because they are just mean and evil. As far as the gender is concerned, that doesn't make a difference to the way I think about it, aside from if the mother was suffering from post-partum depression, which is something that could make her do that, and obviously a father couldn't suffer from that.
     
  3. I agree!!!
     
  4. Jesse85uk

    Jesse85uk New Member

    I agree.

    I'm not fully convinced that everything is "planned" or mapped out in advance. I know many members on the board believe that we have planned out everything in the spiritual realms, but to me that contradicts the whole concept of spiritual growth and I'm not sure why anyone would "choose" to commit murder or rape...etc. as a means of some kind of greater lesson.

    I think that many people suffer from certain issues within the brain....I don't believe there is such a thing as a "mental" illness because I don't think the mind IS the brain.

    But I understand that the term mental illness is used to describe any sociological disorder and/or certain brain disorder.

    I think that the brain/body is used as a receiver and projector of thoughts from the mind...just like a radio receives, translates and projects radio waves.

    Both can exist on their own - e.g: you can have a radio that doesn't receive radio signals and you can have radio waves/signals that float around on their own without anyone being able to hear them or a radio to project the sound through.

    Just as a radio can break down and stop functioning correctly....so can the human brain & body. When that happens, we are no longer able to receive, perceive or project information back to the mind and the mind becomes imprisoned or locked in, unable to transmit thoughts through the brain which obviously leads to all kinds of issues.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2013
  5. There are a number of points to consider (that I saw on this site), some of which are surprising, and I still don't know how much veracity there is to them:

    1. There is a story of Maria/Em posted on this forum, where a similar situation happened. Very rare that murder like is part of a life plan, but apparently it is possible. Extremely improbable, but apparently not impossible.

    2. There is no way that all life events are pre-planned. If they were, what would we ever have to feel guilty about in the life review? Free will most definitely exists, and probably encompasses the majority of our life's choices.

    3. No one is actually evil. We can be malevolent, and choose to make hurtful decisions, but it never comes from someone being "bad to the bone."

    4. I don't think that gender would come into play too much regarding forgiveness issues, but I can't say for sure that the percentage is 0%.

    And now it comes down to what we believe out of this. For example, can someone be evil? We've read about it on this site that evil doesn't exist, but is that true? Is it acceptable?

    And if one is mentally ill, does it account for the sole reason why this kind of event, and other horrible events, have happened? How excusable is it, both here and in the life review? If one chose to have mental illness to see how he/she could cope with it and as a test to "not do bad things" to people, then how likely is forgiveness during the life review?
     
  6. Minor clarification -- there are different opinions among us as to exactly how much pre-life planning goes on. The version that makes the most sense to me is that certain major circumstances and turning points are planned, but that doesn't necessarily mean that every little thing is planned, or that even an event such as this tragedy is totally planned. For instance I think that I probably agreed to be adopted, possibly by people from outside my usual soul group. Did my adoptive mother say, "I'm going to be cruel to you all the time, though, ok?" That doesn't seem likely to me, even though I have certainly learned and grown through that experience in ways I would not have if I had grown up with my birth family.

    In the news story, since mom and babies are all dead, I'm not sure who really learned anything, which makes me wonder if it could have been planned. What's the point?

    To WWE's point, I think there is a tendency to react somewhat differently when men vs. women do such things. In cases, severe depression (postpartum or otherwise) is quite likely a factor in the actions, along with some difficulty in seeing the children (or spouse) as separate from oneself. Because men are generally more violent we are perhaps more likely to see a man in this role as a perpetrator, and to see a woman as a fellow-victim, because a woman would never do such a thing unless she was mentally ill. In reality, even violent men don't usually kill their children and themselves, so there is no logical basis for distinguishing a father or mother in this circumstance.
     
  7. BTW, technically this story was not a murder-suicide pact since presumably the children didn't agree to the drowning.

    In an actual pact, usually two adults are both depressed enough to agree to die at the same time for whatever reason. Usually they both commit suicide. One person may manipulate the other into joining them in death - see Jim Jones/People's Temple for an extreme example of this phenomenon. Although many of Jones' followers were actually killed or forced at gunpoint to drink the poison, there were also many who willingly took their lives because he told them to.

    In short, people can go horribly off course in all kinds of ways. It's amazing to me that most people live as productively as they do when you consider how screwed up we are.
     
  8. Carol and Mikey

    Carol and Mikey Golden Hearts

    Hi all,
    Mikey continues to say we come with a "general life plan" with some significant events (planned) that we are to experience while we are here. Our free-will and the free-will of others, can alter our plan along the way. Our spiritual guides try to keep us on generally on track, but sometimes it can be challenging according to Mikey. In such terrible cases like this, Mikey says we need to understand that Heaven always knows the intent of the action. Mikey continues to stand strong in the arena of we need to respect life! Heaven understands mental illness in cases such as this. If mental illness is not the case, and depending on the intention, much guidance is needed when this individual passes who did the act of violence. It is not easy for them according to Mikey. He continues to say that murder is never God's plan. It may be an individual's plan, but never God's.
    Mikey says human acts can be extremely hurtful and extremely non-loving in nature. It is the behavior or act that is bad, but the soul always has potential to improve, if desired. Mikey tells me it is not so much "evil" as it is purely non-loving ways / actions. Like Celera says, sometimes people can go horribly off course. Mikey says we come here and "play our various roles" in our intertwined life plans. The problem is when individuals over step their roles with free-will and the influence of their ego's and so on. It can get more tough then what was initially planned! Earthly influences can really be quite the test. These influences can bring out the worst in some. Mikey says "us humans" have made this such a tough school ! That is why loving, kind ways are so significant for spiritual growth. Overcoming earthly influences, ego, and negativity is huge! That is why spiritual growth can be so great here! It is tough stuff!

    Carol and Mikey "in Spirit"
     
  9. In my worldview, life is more like an improv. You get a general theme and make it up as you go day by day (hopefully taking input from your spiritual guides). Einstein would disagree with me as he believed that freewill is an illusion.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2013
  10. poeticblue

    poeticblue member

    What about the people with mental illness that do not commit these kinds of acts? Yeah people may think they want to kill themselves along with their family, but why do some people do it and some do not? A bad spirit guide? Not enough infused knowledge? I'm not quick to think that every parent who hurts their child has a mental illness.

    As far as what WWE was saying.. men do have a bad reputation for deserting their families, abuse, rape, molestation. You bought up a good point though cause women do the same thing. I think men just have so much pressure to be superman these days and some of them just snap under pressure. Alot of men are actually quite sensitive and they hold their emotions which ends up exploding like a nuclear bomb. I was even asked why mothers day was celebrated more than fathers day. I laughed, but when I thought about it... it was so true.

    I've read a few articles where families charted suicide in their lifetime. I can't wrap my head around that. Have to do more research... sounds too weird even for me.
     

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