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Is it too easy?

Discussion in 'General Afterlife Discussions' started by Celera, Oct 12, 2012.

  1. Celera

    Celera Active Member

    So, being misplaced in California, I particularly enjoyed spending last week in Omaha (I was there for business). My last day there, I stepped out of an office building and walked four blocks to my hotel, facing a persistent 36 degree wind. There were trees with leaves of gold, burgundy and softening green. My nose got a bit numb. It was great.

    This brought to mind something that has always sort of bothered me about descriptions of the after-life. It's great that there is a lot of love and learning and happiness. But so much of what makes our current existence wonderful is those physical pleasures -- coming in from the snow to a blazing fireplace and a cup of hot chocolate. The bracing tannins of Zinfandel. The beauty of art that you have labored to master. The one-ness and other-ness of physical intimacy -- whether it's with a lover or a nursing infant or a snuggling child. Even the terrible cold depths of Lake Superior (if you've been there you know what I mean.)

    An existence full of light and love and peace seems wonderful -- but does it only seem wonderful because in this life those are scarce commodities? In this context, explanations of the afterlife always seem so sterile and soft and easy. Like spending eternity in a pool of rice pudding (which is delicious, but still I wouldn't want a steady diet of it.)

    I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I just wonder about this. If any of you have a different perspective, I'd be interested to hear it.
     
  2. mokandi

    mokandi New Member

    I feel and wonder the same.
     
  3. Annie

    Annie Member

    Honestly, I've always gotten the impression that you DO feel those physical things. Even though you don't need to eat over there, you might still crave a nice, warm chocolate chip cookie, or a nice plate of spaghetti and meatballs. And you can have them, and you won't even gain weight. You can have sunshine or rain, you can smell flowers and hear music. You can touch people too, just like you did in real life, but my theory is only with people who want you to, and vice versa. Not that anyone wouldn't want you to, I'm just saying that no one can physically harm you or anything.
     
  4. jenniechan

    jenniechan New Member

    I also feel the same. I agree with you.
     
  5. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    You can go one stage further and consider the oft-used name - The Summerland. Many seem to see life in the etheric as a desirable 'summerland' compared with life in-the-body for which 'winterland' is a metaphor.

    Or maybe this summerland word was one coined by those who experienced lives of extreme hardship in winter and for whom summer was much more enjoyable? A few moments of thought would reveal just how inappropriate it would be for those who had lived in extremely difficult summer conditions and would much prefer temperate weather - as they might have found in their winters. An opposite experience.

    Personally I don't use the summerland word other than when others need me to. And I point out that after passing we'll likely see matters altogether differently after we've acclimated to the conditions we'll find there. But just the step of accepting that life is continuous, that death doesn't signal the end of us, is a huge step and any argument about a name to describe life in the etheric realms is a minor issue.

    And might be seen, by some, as slightly bourgeois....
     
  6. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    One step further from considering the name, and the environment experienced, leads on to a notion that Roberta's often brought up - that of the etheric dimension following the physical being an illusory one. In this the element of personal preference for one's environment can be further considered. In one sense it is an illusory world because what's found there has been brought about (to some degree) by the needs and expectations of those journeying through it.

    But that world feels just as solid and 'real' as all other dimensions. (however they're perceived by their occupants) For all intents and purposes it can be considered as real as everything else we feel to be real. BUT in the so-called summeland we can influence (to a degree) what we experience; should our psyche be so deeply influenced by our current preferences for weather, food or whatever, to some degree we may create for ourselves the things we desire. We may even find that others there, maybe many others, have already done that very thing and we may then be attracted to the conditions they've created to match their own needs/expectations. The like-attracts-like principle.

    It's been taught that our specific desires will be transient - desires for sun, wind, rain, cups-of-coffee, blazing log fires whatever your preference - but they can be satisfied, at least in some degree and for as long as the individual(s) hold those needs/desires. But once adjusted to the many changes, those desires will begin to fade.
     
  7. Birki

    Birki Member

    I think the senses afforded to us by our human body are very limited. I think we have no idea what wonders are in store for us, and really we cannot comprehend the joys and delights we will find in the afterlife. If you want something from earth there you can have it, but after a while you may find you don't even want it, becuase it is so lackluster compared to what is possible there. Of course both the earth and the summerlands are all an illusion, anyway, on our journey to rejoining God/Mind.
     
    Rising likes this.
  8. vic smyth

    vic smyth New Member

    And once the desires fade, we will experience contentment.


    With Lovingkindness (metta),
    vic
     
  9. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    and much more....
     
  10. Celera

    Celera Active Member

    Reading this again this morning, I see that I have rather sloppily combined two different, although perhaps related questions.

    1. What replaces physical pleasures when we have no physical body? This question is answered to some degree by the comments so far. We can still experience those pleasures, or something like them, if we want to. And it makes sense that if we have no physical body, we won't miss the things that now give it pleasure.

    2. This one is harder (for me anyway). If everything is available freely, then what is it worth? Sure, I can imagine a winter-land or autumn-land if that suits my tastes -- but part of the pleasure of the cold wind is that it dares you to survive it, and the pleasure of a fire in the fireplace is that you had to go through the cold to get to it. Part of the pleasure of building something or creating something or learning something is that it takes you some effort to do these things, and there is challenge and often a risk of failure. Part of the pleasure of good wine or a great painting is that these things can't be found all over the place.

    On Star Trek (hey, I'm a geek) there is an omnipotent character named Q. He can go to any place or time in the blink of an eye. If something doesn't please or amuse him, he just thinks it into something different. The thing is, Q is a very disruptive being, because he is just so bored.

    Again, not trying to be negative or dispute anything that anyone has said about the other levels. It's just so hard to conceive of a world so different from ours.
     
  11. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    QUOTE=Celera;

    Reading this again this morning, I see that I have rather sloppily combined two different, although perhaps related questions.

    1. What replaces physical pleasures when we have no physical body? This question is answered to some degree by the comments so far. We can still experience those pleasures, or something like them, if we want to. And it makes sense that if we have no physical body, we won't miss the things that now give it pleasure.
    In time these things will come to pass. Try to keep in mind what I wrote about the way we'll likely feel after acclimating. As incarnates we feel and experience as incarnates. As discarnates that will change.

    2. This one is harder (for me anyway). If everything is available freely, then what is it worth? Sure, I can imagine a winter-land or autumn-land if that suits my tastes -- but part of the pleasure of the cold wind is that it dares you to survive it, and the pleasure of a fire in the fireplace is that you had to go through the cold to get to it. Part of the pleasure of building something or creating something or learning something is that it takes you some effort to do these things, and there is challenge and often a risk of failure. Part of the pleasure of good wine or a great painting is that these things can't be found all over the place. Thinking as an incarnate all this holds good - as a discarnate one may reasonably anticipate seeing matters differently. ;)


    Again, not trying to be negative or dispute anything that anyone has said about the other levels. It's just so hard to conceive of a world so different from ours. similar response to the last one...Try not to have concern about being negative - asking, debating, disagreeing is felt as negative mostly by those afraid/unwilling to have their ideas challenged. I agree that it's hard to understand/perceive a world so unlike our own. I had to work hard before things began to gel for me. Nothing unusual when we want to learn something.
     
  12. vic smyth

    vic smyth New Member

    Celera, Once you experience your Autumnland to its fullest and you find yourself bored, you may seek higher levels, or you may want to reincarnate to get your dose of drama on the earthplane. I'm reading the book Multidimensional Man, Jurgen in his OBE's got bored of certain levels.

    But as mac point out (at least I think he made reference to this) boredom is a human emotion. It probably does not exist at higher levels.


    With Lovingkindness (metta),
    vic
     
  13. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    I don't think I referred to boredom specifically but rather (as you suggest) that considering these matters as incarnates is no indicator of the situation we'll experience as discarnates. As in the thread where contrasts are considered, boredom is yet one more experience we have here which we won't have over-there once we've acclimated.
     
  14. Truth seeker

    Truth seeker Member

    First sorry for any typos...


    I have just read a communication received from the brazilian medium SebastiƔn de Arauco that explains many thing about reincarnation..

    it says that that after a long stay in the afterlife the most evolutioned beings feel the urge to progress to higher spheres and that they quit to the wonderful live there to return to earth to do work, but sometimes they fell under the pressure and fail at this... that there is a internal force that compelled them to came back to the physical plane for progressing.

    It adds: we can compare this phenom to what happens to the enterpreneur individual that knowing all the troubles that a new business will have for him it feels attracted to it.......


    it says many other things but I think that little bit can add to this discussion :)
     
  15. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    One problem with all such mediums is that we don't know who communicates through the medium. Simply because a source is discarnate it does not automatically make that source deeply knowledgeable. Discarnates are not homogeneous any more than we humans are. Each will be at a particular level of spiritual progression which may - or may not - enable them to give authoritative guidance.

    It's not clear to me what point the communicator is making.
     
  16. Celera

    Celera Active Member

    Which in itself, mac, suggests that existence in the afterlife is not all tranquil perfection. Otherwise, what would there be to learn, in order to go to new levels? If there is learning to do, then there must be some actions that are uninformed or misguided.

    I'm comfortable with the idea that a discarnate life is so different from this existence that we can't really understand it very well. But it can't just be the opposite of this life, or this life would have no purpose, as our learning here wouldn't apply to anything in the next levels. I think.

    Reading this forum, I'm often reminded of my great-Aunt Margaret. She lived a long life and died about ten years ago at the age of 96. She lived longer than anyone else in her family, and sometimes fretted that "God has lost my invitation." One time someone asked her what she thought would happen after death, and she said, "I think you wake up, and you realize that you are home. And you recall your life here and think, that was weird." :)
     
  17. Birki

    Birki Member

    I think your great-aunt was very wise!
     
  18. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    Well said, dear Birki! In all the many hundreds of communications from the dead that I have read, I cannot recall ever finding one in which anybody complained of boredom. That is not to say that such communications do not exist; but, for a fact, I never have seen one. Dear Celera, as misplaced as you may feel in California, I assure you that you won't feel misplaced in heaven! Based upon the afterlife evidence:

    1) Those in the Summerland perceive themselves and their surroundings to be solid. Many of them insist that where they are is real, and where we are is the illusion. Of course, both realities are mind-created, but our beloved dead have experienced both and they consider their reality to be more real than this one!

    2) Reportedly all our senses are immensely enhanced in the Summerland levels. People say that they can see in perfect detail even very far distant objects; they can see colors that we cannot imagine; and they can hear music far more exquisitely. I have seen communications that hint at senses that we don't even have, or say that their senses can somehow combine, and thereby create compounded experiences. They are, dear friend, quite decidedly not bored!

    3) Many of the newly-dead miss lots of things - rain, wind, coffee, chocolate, sunsets, whatever - and they report with a sense of wonder that they need only think of these things and they have them.

    4) The dead seem not to miss earth-based negativities and strifes. I have come to think of our Summerland period as a kind of rest and relaxation after our difficult lives on earth - it's a vacation, if you will. Who gets bored on vacation?

    Yes, it does seem too good to be true. But in fact, the Summerland realities are better than anything we incarnates can imagine - they are better than too good to be true, but they are gloriously true nonetheless!
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2012
  19. Fallen

    Fallen New Member

    I agree with what Birki states here.

    I'm obviously in the other camp. I myself never had an NDE, but when I was 18, I had an intense spiritual experience that actually had many parellels to an NDE. During the experience, I felt this sort of intense heat/energy flow throughout my body. My body was on fire with unconditional love, for everyone and everything. I could not sleep for a week, felt no more fear, no more grief, no more anger. I could not feel thirst or hunger either, which I thought was quite odd. I no longer had interest in the physical world, my mind wanted to go inward and focus on the spiritual world which I began to sense. During this experience, a number of things were communicated to me; that I was away from home, that this earth wasn't my real home.

    I wanted to go home. The physical world became meaningless to me. I saw it as unreal, a mere illusion. It was like I was living a lie for 18 years. The only thing in this world that had any sort of meaning was other people.

    But the intense unconditional love I felt, was better than any transitory physical experience here. It is unending bliss and self sufficiency. Here, you habituate to things and get tired of something once you have it. Things lose value quickly, and happiness is always fleeting. But this love is never ending, and I have rarely if ever received this sort of love from a human being here. The love here is cold, selfish, and fake to me. People here are too individualistic, materialistic, and selfish. They love you only if you fulfill their needs. And while aspects of this world indeed are enjoyable, it just feels rudimentary to me in comparison.

    We are spiritual beings inhabiting a physical body. The things you describe is just the nature of the physical self, which has these mechanisms that allow it to survive death. These things don't apply to the spiritual however. Once you lose attachment with the physical self and ego, the spiritual self becomes stronger, and your spiritual nature begins to dominate your conscious experience. Unconditional love and self sufficiency rule here, and the only desire is the desire to love unconditionally.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2012
  20. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    great points! I like your reasoning although I can't agree with your ideas. :D

    What would there be to learn in the etheric? I don't know and don't have a clue but neither do we know that about this very dimension we're living in right now. My 'opposite to this life' metaphor relates to the physical experiences which will be absent from non-physical dimensions. Admittedly it's a coarse construct but it can serve to make some comparisons.

    All my comparisons/contrasts still hold good even though we don't know exactly what we will experience 'over there'. But I don't see matters so much of learning as experiencing before we move on beginning the journey back to where we began. I agree with your 'tranquil perfection' idea but that again is just for comparison with the struggle we have to survive in this physical realm. Again it's a coarse comparison but we have little else and similar imagery has been used by those living and communicating from those dimensions.

    I guess each communicator will paint a picture of their view of the next world a little differently from any other communicator, just as we would if we described our world to someone who'd never experienced it. And yet there are common experiences for all of us incarnates and likely there will be similarly for our unseen friends.
     
  21. Celera

    Celera Active Member

    I'm not really disagreeing with you, mac -- it's just odd for me to contemplate something that I can't articulate. It's not a problem I encounter very often.

    I appreciate everyone's discussion of this issue, though. And, if it really will feel like I'm finally home, and my Aunt Margaret is there, I won't have any complaints!
     
  22. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    "....it's just odd for me to contemplate something that I can't articulate. It's not a problem I encounter very often." wonderful observations and very reflective

    Been there, done that..... Over the years I've read and written about this 'stuff' my thoughts have become less muddled, more simplified, the more I do it. Constantly having to formulate and re-formulate my thoughts and ideas have taken me to a point where they are much clearer in my mind and constant addressing of similar points when trying to help others with their own difficulties has helped me too.

    Of course there are limits to where I can go in my mind's eye and I'm not always able to grasp some notions which are dancing at the outer edges of my current comprehension. But that's where some of the notions I write about used to be but which nowadays I can grasp. I constantly test my ideas by challenging what others are saying to see if they can show me where I've got it wrong. I don't like the feeling if I have been wrong about things but I'd be mortified if I realised later rather than sooner. So what am I wittering on about?

    I guess I'm saying that the more one contemplates, meditates, researches, discusses or whatever way works for any particular individual, the better the chance they have of moving forward in their understanding.

    I'm sure you will have been reassured about this already but if you're as dear to your Aunt Margaret as she appears to be for you, she'll not only be there and waiting for you on your passing but is likely already to be around you here-and-now. :D
     
  23. Bella

    Bella New Member

    How often do you think they are around us here and now, Mac? I am told they have things to do. Can they be doing those things and be here around us at the same time? Doesn't the pull to be around us make them earth bound then?
     
  24. Sapphire

    Sapphire Member

    Thank you for sharing this, Fallen. Wow.

    I have never experienced anything like that. What a game-changer!
     
  25. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    I think it's near-impossible to know for most of us. I feel sure that many/most of them will be getting on with whatever it is that makes life tick 'over there'. We're conditioned by our lives on a daily basis and life without time-markers such as days and the working week etc. is unknown after we grow into adults. We rarely get to do much stuff outside of those constraints - the opposite of how things will be when we've passed over and potentially we'll have things to do and learn that interest us and which we may not have been able to spend time doing while incarnate.

    I would expect, though, that some of our unseen friends and relatives take an interest in what we're thinking or doing but how much they'll be aware of is another tricky one. Mikey and Carol are no guide for the rest of us as their relationship is highly unusual. Can they be doing 'stuff' while still maintaining an involvement/interest in what we're doing you ask? I've not heard anything to indicate that and most tasks need concentration so even if it were possible, I'd expect one or the other would need to be the primary focus - just as on earth.

    If they were too involved with following our lives they might spend a lot of time in doing that and neglect other needs or desires. That wouldn't make them 'earthbound' in the conventional sense, though, as they'd be electing to remain close by the earth plane rather than being unaware of their passing etc.

    When one says they're likely to be around my own view is that they're likely to be nearby at times when they 'feel a pull' perhaps because of emotion or stress or even for reasons such as these kinds of discussions. It really does depend on the interest of the discarnate in what their loved one is doing. And at those points they may draw near either emotionally, psychically or physically which is why some sensitive individuals may then become aware of them, even if they can't be sure what they're experiencing.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2012
  26. vic smyth

    vic smyth New Member

    This is probably closer to the truth for most people. I wonder if your great-Aunt Margaret would have viewed reincarnation and the different afterlife levels as also a part of the 'weird life experience' (illusion) that one wakes up from?


    With Lovingkindness (metta),
    vic
     
  27. chrismc3

    chrismc3 New Member


    Not trying to be 'Risque' here, but I have often wondered if there is sex after death. (?) I wonder if we might need or even want it on the other side ? Seems like it would depend on how important it was to us in this particular realm. And by this I am NOT talking necessarily about the 'Down & Dirty' aspects, merely pure, physical affection, intimacy...etc...a simple kiss, hugs, holding someone close...will we even desire this ?

    No matter...LEAST of my worries, but I am a guitar player, (not great, but fairly good) and I like to 'Jam' with others every chance I get, so I have always wondered if musicians get together there. I do know there is music, but from everything I have read...it is always like a chorus....I.E...Like a church choir, giving praise to God...etc...Albeit, this is usually what people report as they are first entering the 'Kingdom', (for lack of a better word) and these accounts are usually NDE's, at least from everything I have read. (thus far)

    Oh Well...Just something to think about.

    (Maybe Carol and Mikey could weigh in ?)

    chrismc3
     
  28. Fallen

    Fallen New Member

    You're welcome. I think this kind of experience is available to anyone, but I think my personal experience was the result of my level of dedication to spiritual progression. Prior to the experience, I sought the most intimate relationship possible with God, which I inferred was mergence. I wanted this like I wanted the air I breathed, and was willing to sacrafice everything and do anything to achieve this. What happened was that my physical self sort of "died" in the process. Obviously I did not actually die, since I was still physically very much alive, but what I think happened was a sort of transition to spirit while still being attached to my physical body. I actually viewed my physical body as a separate entity, and felt unconditional love for it, which was quite weird. There was my higher spiritual self and this "thing" I was inhabiting.

    This lasted for about 3 months. The sad thing though, was that I signed up to be in the army a year prior to this, and experienced a considerable regression during my three years in the army. I do not have the same level of dedication that I once had, though I do remain forever changed by this event.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2012
  29. Carol and Mikey

    Carol and Mikey Golden Hearts


    Mac,
    Mikey tells me your last paragraph summed it up! :) This is what happens . He also says they generally hear us if we ask for them. (I do talk often out loud.) Mikey says the more loving the relationship, the more this type of "connection" occurs after someone passes. If that makes sense. :)

    Chismc3,
    Mikey tells me there is all kinds of music in Heaven! ( Or whatever term you want to call the Afterlife.) He says absolutely souls reconnect and play their music together again, etc. If you want to play your guitar and join in with someone, you can! Rumor has it, some old "bands and groups" from years gone by who have now passed on, are playing their music in Heaven! :) You can go to their concerts too and it's free! :) (Mikey's report!)
    Carol and Mikey "in Spirit"
     
  30. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    "Not trying to be 'Risque' here, but I have often wondered if there is sex after death. (?) I wonder if we might need or even want it on the other side ? Seems like it would depend on how important it was to us in this particular realm. And by this I am NOT talking necessarily about the 'Down & Dirty' aspects, merely pure, physical affection, intimacy...etc...a simple kiss, hugs, holding someone close...will we even desire this?"

    All fair points as we're taught we still have bodies in the etheric. But last-question-first.

    "...will we even desire this?" It depends. How evasive is that!? :rolleyes: Seriously, though, it does depend.... It depends on the individual(s) concerned, how tactile he/she/they were when incarnate. If they always embraced others, enjoyed being hugged and kissed then yes, they might well continue to desire that - and those who know that's what is liked and are comfortable responding physically - will doubtless be happy to give a physical embrace. At least in the early time after someone's passing and their first reunions but perhaps always... I suspect, though, that such feelings may later change into something less tactile.

    But if it's sexual intercourse between individuals it's a much more specific question. In general terms consider the following. Sexual attraction was designed primarily to ensure survival of species. It's a hormonal stimulation generating responses designed to ensure that species have offspring. It's not needed in the etheric realms but I would not be surprised to learn that these physical desires may be carried over by some individuals.

    A discussion beyond that might be more appropriate in another thread.
     

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