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Discussion in 'Member Introductions' started by dingodile, Mar 18, 2018.

  1. dingodile

    dingodile Member

    I'm not sure what article in Mind you might have read, but the general argument is familiar to me. Roughly, it goes like this: Human consciousness essentially involves a spatial point of view. That is, we can only conceive of space from a point within it, and only physical entities are capable of being located in that way. Human consciousness is thus essentially embodied, making the idea of disembodied consciousness incoherent. I'm not going to defend that argument, since I don't agree with it, but I will point out that even in much of what we read about afterlife, OBE and NDE, etc, there are often references to some other kind of body (a "subtle" or "astral" or "perispiritual" body). One person who argued against the coherence of disembodied consciousness was the late Jay Rosenberg, who wrote the book Thinking Clearly About Death, in which he made his case.

    A more serious argument against mind-body dualism is made by Jaegwon Kim in a fairly well-known essay called "Lonely Souls."

    As for physical mediumship phenomena adding an evidential layer, I guess it depends on the phenomena. Direct voice is one thing; things like floating tables, orbs of light, and so on are another. I sometimes ask myself what it would take, personally, for me to be convinced that I am in real-time contact with a deceased person that I once knew. I can certainly imagine being convinced by things said. I don't know whether things like ectoplasmic forms or direct voice phenomena would bolster or detract from that conviction. It's just too far from the realm of anything I've experienced for me to know what to think, so I just try to suspend judgment.
  2. dingodile

    dingodile Member

    Roberta, thank you for the video links. I've watched a couple of them before. In fact, I've had my students watch one of them. I'd also point out that the materialist dogma does back a lot farther than the last century. Some of the ancient philosophers, such as Epicurus and Lucretius, were making the same case. And I wouldn't say that Planck's views have been ignored, but they have been resisted. There have been many attempts to get consciousness out of the quantum mechanical picture. It all comes down to what counts as a "measurement", and this is still a disputed point. Personally, I hold a view similar to yours (I think), which is that all attempts to conceive of measurement without consciousness ultimately fail, but I claim no expertise in the matter.


    Hi Dingo,
    Have you read "Voices in the Dark?" (Leslie Flints bio) & listened to any of his recordings available on Youtube? Or read any of Arthur Findlay's books regarding the subject and his dealings with John Sloan? There is so much convincing material between the two.
  4. dingodile

    dingodile Member

    Hello. I haven't read the Flint bio but I have listened to some of the recordings on YouTube. I don't think I've read any of Findlay's work. Do you recommend a particular title?
  5. dingodile

    dingodile Member

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