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Discussion in 'member introductions' started by dingodile, Mar 18, 2018.

  1. dingodile

    dingodile Member

    That's correct, and in fact the standard meaning of the word is the philosophical one, which goes back over 2,000 years to Aristotle's works, although Aristotle himself didn't use the term. Some of Aristotle's writings were collected as "ta phusika", meaning "the physical ones", i.e., the writings about physical things. The ones that came next were later collected as "ta meta ta phusika", or the books after the physics books. These books dealt with things like the nature of abstract entities, such as numbers, the nature of causation, the "one-many" problem, and so on. These are still the core topics in metaphysics. The use of "metaphysics" to refer mainly to things such as spirits or subtle energies is very much a contemporary invention.

    I'd add that solidity as anything but an emergent property hasn't been a significant part of the concept of matter for a while now, although it was for some of the ancient Greek atomists.
     
  2. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    What exactly do you mean?
     
  3. genewardsmith

    genewardsmith Active Member

    Democritus, the ancient Greek philosopher, thought that matter was composed out of little hard, indivisible particles of varied shapes. The solidity of these particles was inherent in their nature. Now we see the apparent solidity of matter as the outcome of quantum mechanics, the Pauli exclusion principle and the electric charge of an electron in particular. So, it "emerges" from a more basic level.
     
  4. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    Dear friends, it doesn't matter when a term originated; what matters to us as we have a modern-day discussion is the way it is used now. And in 2018, I see "metaphysics" often used by many to mean a woo-woo and unreal form of physics, when in fact now the evidence strongly suggests that there is only one physics for our one reality. And that physics includes a great deal that is "metaphysical."

    The fact is that as far back as Plato and Aristotle, there was a break between "material"and "religious" as two different and incompatible modes of thinking. That break was codified early in the twentieth century when the mainstream scientific community began to enforce materialism as what they then called "the fundamental scientific dogma." And that dogma persists in universities and scientific journals to this day! It doesn't so much matter that it is materialism that they are enforcing, but the very fact that there IS a dogma is the problem. It limits what can be studied. It has turned what should be the unfettered search for the truth about reality (insofar as that truth can be discovered) into a mere belief-system. Science is now just another religion, if you will permit me to be frank: it is the religion of atheism. So, like every other religion, it is now a fly in amber, preserving a world view and a way of thinking that is now a century old.
     
  5. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    We are seem to be trying these days to unite the material or visible world with in invisible or spiritual world. To me, that is what the construction of the word 'conscience' signifies: a combination of the knowledge of two different realms, but one we experience physically and temporarily and the other eternally and invisibly.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2018
  6. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    I think you are right about the direction. But we are so stuck in old, dual modes of thinking that make it very difficult for us to look at things sufficiently objectively to begin to grasp what actually is going on!
     
  7. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    I think I understand. By dual modes, do you mean two different ways of perceiving reality? To think that there are two different states of existence is a faulty way to perceive reality, since that says there are two states of existence, or realities, when to Consciousness there is only one state of existence?
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2018
  8. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    Matter/spirit, right/wrong, good/evil, true/false: in fact, all such distinctions are based in limited human thinking and perceptions. Since we come to earth with access to only a limited part of our vast, eternal minds, we find it hard to wrap these teeny minds around the fact that in reality, there are no such distinctions. Even true/false. It is indeed a puzzlement!
     
    kim marine likes this.
  9. genewardsmith

    genewardsmith Active Member

    So you are saying it is true that there is no distinction between true and false?
     
  10. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    What should be noted is that it is a puzzlement. That is the point Roberta was making.
     
  11. dingodile

    dingodile Member

    I believe she said it's a fact. So apparently there are facts.
     
  12. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    Oh, I missed that word 'fact' in what she wrote, but IMO everything is a manifestation of God's, or whatever word or idea you want to use, breath, so there is room for every vibration and we are growing spiritually and have an eternity to do so.
     
  13. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    I think I am saying that the distinction doesn't have the same meaning there. I have seen comments from advanced beings saying something like that. Perhaps it means that everything is true somewhere, and everything is false somewhere? It's like multi-dimensional chess. You can't envision it until you see it!
     
    kim marine likes this.
  14. genewardsmith

    genewardsmith Active Member

    I take such comments to suggest that if truth is all you know, false becomes a meaningless concept. You don't think of things which are false, or hold in your mind any evil.
     
  15. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    Consciousness is much bigger and more loving than anything we have experienced in our lives here on earth. Before we came here we agreed to forget everything we once knew. We are growing and we can do that eternally. I see potential in evil. It evolves and doesn't have to stay evil. Consciousness sees potential in everyone of us, because we are a piece of It.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2018
  16. bluebird

    bluebird Well-Known Member

    If you aren't using "Consciousness" as a synonym for "god", which you said you are not, then what do you mean by it? It cannot see potential if it it not a sentient being of some sort....
     
  17. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    I think we make too big a deal over our words and ideas when we live here, because in actuality they are meaningless in eternity. I was not referring to a god, and that is why words don't work. They are too rigid. I've experienced something else thanks to the NDE, and it has been manifesting before my eyes since 1983.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2018
  18. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    Words are never meaningless but they may be carelessly used.....
     
  19. bluebird

    bluebird Well-Known Member

    If you don't mean "Consciousness" to indicate some sort of sentient being (whether a god or not), how can you think it can "see potential" in each of us?
     
  20. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    I see "god" as something people create to provide security and comfort for themselves. Any word we may use here to describe the Highest Power in the universe is inadequate.
    The 'us' who it sees potential in is unable to be detected by our physical senses. That invisible part of us is who we really are, because when you get down to basics all we experience with our physical senses is like a colorful shadow.
     

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