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In Search of the Wandering Spirit

Discussion in 'General Afterlife Discussions' started by Waller, Aug 15, 2014.

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  1. Waller

    Waller Banned

    Recently re-published is this lecture http://thegroundoffaith.net/issues/2009-12/Alvarado.pdf



    My summary of this paper is that the Out-of-Body Experience (OBE) is not well correlated with hallucinations or mind-based phenomena.


    The author selects the word ‘spirit’ because the collection of writings by a dozen or so authors commonly use this term. The arguments circulate around whether or not we are utilizing our ethereal bodies, our spirit form (Higher Mind), a form of our ego, or something yet inexplicable in the OBE. Two excerpts:



    “spiritual body … may, during life, occasionally detach itself, to some extent or other and for a time, from the material flesh and blood...”

    “Bozzano presented a variety of phenomena he grouped under the term “bilocation” that he believed showed the existence of an “etheric” body inside the physical body.”
    Note that these authors were writing well before the onslaught of the Near-Death Experience (NDE) which has forever tied the OBE to the spiritual (discarnate) realms.

    The OBE is not an hallucination, ask an experiencer who has had just one. The self-initiated OBE can occur for the majority who has received the proper techniques to induce one. It isn’t that difficult.


    Where does this leave us?

    The concept of the etheric body is continually supported by healing, hands-on, hands-off and remote varieties. The etheric body, being an energy body, can be balanced and adjusted for the relief or cure of physical symptoms (illness, injury, etc.)


    The “spirit” of a person, the real You, forever living in the higher vibratory realms, must have a means of connecting, communicating with the physical body for learning to occur. It is postulated this connection is the pathway for your spirit to lead the way into the OBE, yet another learning experience.


    Who knows? What is important is that the OBE is a non-local event, janef refers to hers as a “Spiritually Transformative Experience” (STE) and I can vouch for that as can dozens of others OBErs I know well.


    One last thought. The OBE as a spontaneous projection is often confused with a dream state. When you apply firm definitions to the OBE, you will find that they have occurred in your sleep, mislabeled as a “dream”. Once you wrap your head around the differences, don’t be surprised if this new understanding is spiritually transformative.
     
  2. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    This is great, Waller - thank you once again for sharing some important thoughts. OBEs are indeed real experiences, although at the same time it seems to be possible to astral-travel entirely in one's mind. I don't understand it, but I can say now that I have done it. Bruce Moen, who was one of Bob Monroe's original explorers, was apparently uncomfortable venturing very far from his physical body, but he wanted to do rescue work (for which there is a terrible need). So he learned to astral-travel INTERNALLY. I took his workshop at the ASCS conference in July, and - amazingly - despite the fact that I didn't believe it was even possible, without actually going out of body I rescued a woman who had been earthbound in England since 1780 and watched as she was reunited with her children. And it all happened INSIDE MY MIND. I then had an encounter with the father of someone else in the workshop and described him and what he had to say so accurately that she asked me to write it all up so she could share it with her mother, who has been grieving for forty years. All of this was IN MY MIND. Or, rather, I think it happened in the collective unconscious. I can't explain it. I'm not psychic, and I don't have the patience to meditate. I seldom can learn much in this field any longer, but - WOW! - I learned something big from Bruce Moen!!
     
  3. bluebird

    bluebird Regular Contributor

    Roberta,

    What makes you think that wasn't imagination or wishful thinking on your part? That's possible even if your conscious mind was skeptical.

    I'm not saying it was wishful thinking, i really don't and can't know. I'm just asking why you don't seem to think it was, or even to consider that possibility.
     
  4. Waller

    Waller Banned

    wow. I am composing a blog post about this subject when I read your response, Roberta. The short of it goes like this. The work-in-progress blog post was generated by a very nice PM sent to me by janef.

    We exist on every level, the physical, the astral, the ethereal, the multidimensional. The term OBE is a misnomer, it may feel as if we are out of our bodies but we are actually exploring within ourselves, exploring our own infinite consciousness.

    This concept of inner exploration directly reflects on our afterlife. Raymond Moody: "at the moment of death, we are reunited with our loved ones". Personally, my family aren't my most favorite people.

    You can take control of your OBE, death is the ultimate OBE, at my moment of death I want to go to the highest vibrational level I can achieve. This is what I have learned through the OBE that the choice is mine.

    Belief is unnecessary but it is a happy companion. :) Bruce showed a way. You applied it and learned.

    The Tibetans, and other like-minded Buddhists, chant at the death bed to "go to the clear light" or the formless, the non-physical, that which exists beyond the what we call the Summerland. Why not?

    My family either died before I knew them or they were, er, less than perfect human beings. I appreciate this now. How else would I have learned to demand the non-physical, my Higher Self, when I die if they had been grand chaps and gals!
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2014
  5. Waller

    Waller Banned

    Let's say you have a picture (Roberta painted you a picture of an OBE) of a roller coaster. You rightfully say, "Hm. Looks like fun, does it really exist?"

    Three people walk by, one is your distrusted enemy, the next is someone you don't know, the 3rd a trusted friend. They are talking about their experience on the roller coaster.

    No matter what the enemy says, you won't believe her. Nor the person you dont know. Your trusted friend will tell you how wonderful it was and it piques your curiosity, like Roberta has piqued yours.

    Bottom line? Until you ride the roller coaster, you will never know, one way or the other.

    What I can tell you is that most of my OBEs are hyperreal. When I "return" it's not an issue of if the OBE was real but if this reality is real.

    Go take a ride. :)
     
  6. bluebird

    bluebird Regular Contributor

    Sorry Waller, but that really doesn't answer the question. I want to know why Roberta assumes that her experience was a real OBE in which she helped someone "cross over" (which is one possibility), rather than wishful thinking (which is another possibility). I'm not asking for proof that her experience was "real" (i don't think that can be proven) -- i'm asking why she believes it was.
     
  7. Waller

    Waller Banned

    Your question was "What makes you think that [OBE and the details you relate] wasn't imagination or wishful thinking on your part?

    I answered that. The OBE and all of its details are more real than this reality. This is a common thread among those who have an OBE, i.e. it is so far removed from "imagination or wishful thinking" including the details such as soul release and guidance as per Roberta "I rescued a woman who had been earthbound in England since 1780 and watched as she was reunited with her children" as to invalidate the possibility of the OBE being anything except a true, consciousness-based event. It's a simple as that.

    I don't expect you to believe me for two reasons. You either distrust what I said, and am now repeating, or you are ambivalent to my experiences. I don't have any problem with this position, it is quite tenable.

    I hear you loud and clear. I will not trouble you with my opinion anytime in the near future. Feel free to exert your free will and Ignore me. :D

    So, if Roberta tells you, more or less, the same as I have, will you believe her? My bet is that she will. Then where are you?

    As I said, go take the ride for yourself if you really want to know.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2014
  8. dopier

    dopier Member

    That's key I feel. I could be wrong but I feel that most people who have an interest in these things, be it vague or profound, may simply be having a curiosity that's beyond preliminary stage and that's wanting to reach a different level at certain times. Usually the curiosity, depending on the individuals, will be satisfied by some profound accounts from others. For others, the curiosity comes with a great dose of skepticism that only personal experiences will appease. Still for many more, the curiosity will probably remain dormant, influenced by various outside factors. Perhaps it is indeed a shaky and beautiful ride all at once.
     
  9. bluebird

    bluebird Regular Contributor

    What i "want to know" is why Roberta believes that her experience was an OBE, and why she believes she helped someone "cross over". So whatever she says, if she answers, i will believe as being HER reason for characterizing her experience as she did, and believing it as she does. I'm not asking for definitive proof of OBEs (and wouldn't accept Roberta's or anyone else's account as definitive proof), so it doesn't really make sense, you suggesting that i try it myself.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2014
  10. Waller

    Waller Banned

    [​IMG] Originally Posted by Waller [​IMG]
    As I said, go take the ride for yourself if you really want to know.


    That is a solid summary that represents the emotional and mental make-up of the majority of curious questioners. bluebird might possibly represent another grouping. Curious about the personal experience of someone else with no known or stated reason for that curiosity. Just curious.

    My experience though is that everyone has an agenda. Most of the time, we have multiple agendae with our questions. I sure do. Agendas are not inherently evil but they are the impetus for being curious in the first place. Otherwise, why ask :confused:
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2014
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