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illusion?

Discussion in 'Spiritual Growth & Development' started by mac, Dec 17, 2017.

  1. Amore

    Amore Active Member

    I like that.

    And that's why I said you seemed to say etc.
     
  2. Amore

    Amore Active Member

    I'm truly sorry mac but I don't feel capable to discuss this any further. I don't have the intellectual capacity. For me this has become just a jumble of words. I'm not able to understand you.
     
  3. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    But I do....


    I agree.


    I've never sought to diminish the magnitude of her experience; only to challenge her extrapolation of personal experiences and ideas into general principles that are meant to apply to those who haven't shared the same experience.



    It is a fault when her approach doesn't acknowledge that what happened to her is unique to her and may not have relevance for others.
     
  4. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    That's fine. As I said to kim earlier I intend to butt out of this side conversation as I can add nothing helpful. I was tidying up points before I left.....
     
  5. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    I am going to stop this conversation too, but I am going to continue following the vibrations that exist at such a high frequency that they are unable to be detected by my flesh, because I know Who is taking care of me when I do. So be it. :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
  6. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    Mac, you say you challenge my extrapolation of personal experiences and ideas into general principles that are meant to apply to those who haven't shared the same experience. Wouldn't I be interfering with their free will to live as they wished if I were to do something like that if it could be done? You are a man who has studied spiritual issues for 30+ years. Is that correct? I am a woman who has casually studied and directly experienced spiritual issues in my life for the past 30+ years. I have freed myself from the principles of this world because I listen to the silent breath speaking to who I truly am, and who I truly am is an invisible Being having experiences as an incarnated being named Kim Marine. I am perfect, although Kim is not, but she wants to grow and learn to care about this earth like Jesus displayed in his character when he lived here, and she has an eternity to grow in spiritual Being. See what I mean!!! We seem to be separate, yet we are one!
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2018
  7. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    I’ve done my stuff. I’ve researched and contemplated all I found. Then out of the blue recently I got a big surprise about something I had felt comfortable with for a long time – spirituality.

    For a very long time I felt persuaded that experiences during life in-the-body enhanced the rate of personal spiritual progress. It’s what I thought spiritual guides had taught us. Nobody provided an alternative or at least I didn’t recognise it if they did.

    The words we use may mean different things to each of us. In a similar way we have different ideas about the way we came into being, both as spirit individuals and as humans. I’ve always thought we progressed spiritually towards a state of near spiritual perfection before we reach our end as individuals - progression from where we are spiritually now to a point where no further progress can be made. Recently all that changed.

    I still see us as from the source and identically similar to the source. When I say ‘us’ I’m referring to our ‘spirit selves’ our individual but spiritually-identical forms; identical ‘sparks’ of creative energy that animate every kind of personal existence. Those ‘sparks’ were spiritually perfect when they left the source to experience life as individuals and that spiritual perfection never changes. They don’t need to progress spiritually - they are already spiritually perfect. And when I refer to ‘they’ I’m actually meaning ‘us’, the spiritual us.

    We each are individuated sparks of that divine source, eternally spiritually-perfect but appearing as something less. Isn’t that the grandest of illusions?
     
  8. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    I think it's important to emphasize the fact that when we come to earth we leave behind what is estimated to be at least 95% of our vast eternal minds. And the part that makes up our earthly awareness seems to be quite literally designed for rapid spiritual learning! We know this much is true. We really do come to earth for spiritual learning; but we don't know why. And it is okay to say that!
     
    kim marine and pandora97 like this.
  9. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    It makes me feel so good to see that you think that way Roberta!!! We have forever to mature. Maturation is about time that exists in God's eternal Breath; not the time that we calculate using clocks and calendars. :):cool:
     
  10. genewardsmith

    genewardsmith Active Member

    Why do we come? Both ACIM and Edgar Cayce say that once we've separated from God, or at least convinced part of our mind that we have, we need to learn to find our way back. Maturation was not needed as we were created, it was a necessity we introduced ourselves.
     
    kim marine likes this.
  11. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    Yes, I agree. I've seen what is awaiting us, and the trials we live through here will only improve our characters for a higher dimension if we set our carnality aside and allow Christ, or the unifying Spirit, to have the reins in our lives! That is what I meant by maturing. You can call it anything you want: growth, raising your frequency, changing dimensions, call it what you wish! I've recognized care from an invisible source since 1983, and I can only identify it as being from the Christ-like Spirit. It is an awesome feeling to be cared for so attentively.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2018
  12. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    We are not "alive", but we have a state of "Being" in God's Breath, which is eternal. Being "alive" is very different than having a state of "Being". The animals are alive, but do not have the state of Being that we do. The physical encasing we project is an animal, and it will die, but who we truly are at the inner most place of our being will never die. I feel very strongly that we, as the human race, are unable to identify with this state of Being because of the indoctrination we must face as we live here on planet earth.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2018
  13. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    I believe the reality we perceive as 3 dimensional is not what we think it is. I have reason to believe now beyond any reasonable doubt that our reality is based on nothing: for those who are willing to think deeply and put faith in the unseen. I am sure that most everyone has played a card game or put a puzzle together on the computer. God, Life, Consciousness, Krishna, Allah or whatever name you want to call the creator of our universe; call it that. Here is my point: Mankind has been able to create computers which give us access to card games or a puzzle and make it appear on a computer screen as though it takes up no space at all. The cards and puzzle pieces can be stacked upon each other infinitely seemingly taken up no space, and they can be arranged to appear to be any size. If mankind is able to do that it is reprehensible to think the Creator of our universe would not be able to create something as fantastic as a computer. So why do wars exist? Let's care bout others.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2018
  14. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    As a reminder of the theme that opened this fairly long-running thread I've posted it again. Many postings have moved considerably off-topic, the simple topic of considering how we are eternally spiritually-perfect 'sparks of the divine'.


    "For a very long time I felt persuaded that experiences during life in-the-body enhanced the rate of personal spiritual progress. It’s what I thought spiritual guides had taught us. Nobody provided an alternative or at least I didn’t recognise it if they did.

    The words we use may mean different things to each of us. In a similar way we have different ideas about the way we came into being, both as spirit individuals and as humans. I’ve always thought we progressed spiritually towards a state of near spiritual perfection before we reach our end as individuals - progression from where we are spiritually now to a point where no further progress can be made. Recently all that changed.

    I still see us as from the source and identically similar to the source. When I say ‘us’ I’m referring to our ‘spirit selves’ our individual but spiritually-identical forms; identical ‘sparks’ of creative energy that animate every kind of personal existence. Those ‘sparks’ were spiritually perfect when they left the source to experience life as individuals and that spiritual perfection never changes. They don’t need to progress spiritually - they are already spiritually perfect. And when I refer to ‘they’ I’m actually meaning ‘us’, the spiritual us.

    We each are individuated sparks of that divine source, eternally spiritually-perfect but appearing as something less. Isn’t that the grandest of illusions?"
     
  15. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    It is the grandest of illusions, Mac. I am very curious about this illusory life we are participating in. I see movies roll within my mind, while awake, and sometimes they are displayed on the other side of me. At times they seem to take a little recess and sometimes a longer vacation, but they always start rolling again. If the movies are on vacation there are usually things in my life that I can identify with in an unusual way.

    I know you don't like to hear me speak about the Bible, but I said once before on this forum that I don't think it should be totally overlooked, because that is Spirit's first step in in trying to be a human Being on a physical plane. If one wants to be human all the different frequencies of Consciousness must be taken into consideration. In the book of Job "hedges" are mentioned that have been put up to protect man, and Satan, call it what you wish, persuades God to bring the hedges down so he can have a "crack at us". God, call it what you wish, brought down the walls, and the invisible and spiritual became visible and physical, since another dimension was created, so to speak.

    I believe it is important to use our imaginations, because imagination provides a positively active image, and images are what we are.

    In Colossians 1:17 it says: He (Christ) is before all things and in him all things hold together. What is he holding together? Since this is an illusory life I feel Christ, call it what you wish, is holding the waves of Consciousness together. I guess you could equate it to a magnetic force.

    As you said we are individuated sparks of the divine source, eternally-spiritually perfect appearing as something less. That is a grand illusion. If we didn't appear as something less how would the divine source be able to transmit Its love, since It would all be the same as anything and everything else? What if everyone in your neighborhood was exactly the same? Wouldn't that be awfully boring?
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2018
  16. jimrich

    jimrich Active Member

    LOL........:D

    The grandest of illusions is to assume, without evidence, that you are an "individual spark" when you are the WHOLE INDIVISIBLE THING. There is no "we" nor any "individual" anywhere! There is only the One Life appearing to be "individual sparks" or separate "things".
     
    kim marine likes this.
  17. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    Oh! You've started following what I say again - I'm off your 'Ignore' list as a special treat! lucky me! :D LOL indeed! :p

    Missed you - where ya bin?
     
  18. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    I am able to relate with this. We have established the idea that our earth and everything in it, including us, are physical entities. God created "images" and an image is not a thing.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2018
  19. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    I have been battling within my mind for a more understandable way to transmit the ideas I have to those in my life. I just saw something on the television where a lady told God that she couldn't face a particular challenge that she had been faced with in her life. She said "You know what God, I keep asking for your help, but I don't need your help anymore. I need you to do it. I just want to help you do it." Hearing that and then reading the two posts above helped me, because, as Amore said, I do put a great effort into describing what I experienced, but as Mac said, I need to consider that others have no way on gods green earth to understand, in anyway, what I went through. Someone tried to reveal new ideas to people living here many years ago and he was murdered for it, so I think this physical realm of life is a little more harmonious than all those years ago, because I have no fear of being murdered!:p

    But I have all the confidence I need to know that it is not I who live but the Consciousness Who lives in me and producing all of the goods. My body is just an image, or a piece of God's Artwork used for transmitting new ideas. I've been fortunate enough to be able to recall what Consciousness has reminded me of during my life and It has involved everyone of my physical senses in the recollections.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2018
  20. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    It might have looked delusional - 'grandest illusion' - had the notion of individuation of the source been mine. It wasn't and it isn't. It was an image offered by the 'spokesperson', the mouthpiece, of a group of discarnates trying to convey in words a picture that was all-but unconveyable. It seems I failed to pass on adequately the gist of their ideas, words that appealed so much to my reason - my bad but I tried.

    Of course there is only one source, one God or whatever you choose to call it. Incarnate existences, the lives we experience as individuals as we perceive them, all come from that ineffable source of everything, everywhere, everywhen. To the best of my mortal understanding in my grossly limited way, my experience of life incarnate, there is a situation of us being individuals and we refer to ourselves as 'we' and as 'us' and as 'individuals'. It's how we individuated sparks of the divine experience incarnate lives, be they 'real' or be they 'illusory'. It's silly and pretentious to talk about anything yet pretend we're not the individual forms we see ourselves as.

    When this simple soul tries his hardest to keep what he's 'heard' as simple as possible he can use only his weak command of the few words he has to convey it. That he fails is inevitable. Yet in that failure remain the core elements. Please seek them out for yourselves as I have made such a hash of passing them on to you.
     
  21. genewardsmith

    genewardsmith Active Member

    Where's your evidence for this?
     
  22. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    I saw this on a T-shirt a few year ago: "If Jesus Christ was the earthquake; our lives are to be the aftershock."
    Jesus showed us what to do. He knew He wasn't going to die. His so called "death" was His gain! He went along with the flow of Consciousness and allowed Himself to be executed, with out resistance. Great potential lies dormant in our minds that will eventually be discovered so we cam shake this world up that we live in and unite it in peace.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2018
  23. jimrich

    jimrich Active Member

    Jim Newman [http://www.simply-this.com/], Tony Parsons and some other "modern sages" would say it (Source) is both real and unreal - a paradox or mystery that defies description.
    IMO, you did the best you could and it's good enough...................
     
  24. jimrich

    jimrich Active Member

    There is none. It's a mystery, so find your own...............
     
    kim marine and pandora97 like this.
  25. pandora97

    pandora97 Active Member

    :DYou make me laugh..............LOL!!!
     
  26. genewardsmith

    genewardsmith Active Member

    According to you, "The grandest of illusions is to assume, without evidence...". Hence my question.
     
  27. jimrich

    jimrich Active Member

    LOL..............
     

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