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illusion?

Discussion in 'Spiritual Growth & Development' started by mac, Dec 17, 2017.

  1. Amore

    Amore Active Member

    In the context I used the term above I meant that inclusion of personal experiences would bring the vast knowledge mac shares here (and for which I'm very thankful) more to life, at least for me. Of course, I'm aware, and I totally respect , that not everyone wants to share personal events on an open forum.
     
    kim marine likes this.
  2. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    Yes, I understand how you believe that death exists BlueBird, and there is nothing wrong with that, because death horrified me at one point in my life. However, my eyes have been opened. My husband died also, but I know he is alive. I envy people, who, by your definition "die", but to me, they have only left this realm of confusion and live in realm of love, joy and peace forever.
     
    Amore likes this.
  3. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    Would the mouthfull 'seemingly close to clinical death experience' be a better term? :D

    Regular folk understand what's meant when they say death. They mean life in-the-body come to an end. Even ALF cognoscenti should be able to agree that.

    I don't use it that way so I'm not included in your catchall 'we' declaration. I know EXACTLY what I mean and it ain't what you've said.


    yadayadayada :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2018
  4. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    It's not that I don't WANT to share it but that I don't consider that it adds anything to most discussions.
    I'm flattered you think I have vast knowledge but I can't agree.

    On a small number of topics my personal experiences, and particular interest, might help bring certain threads to life. In the past, when the occasion has been right, I have gone into personal detail to try to help someone I think might benefit from doing that.

    I think some of my experiences would be found interesting and illuminating in their own right but that's not my reason for being here on ALF or elsewhere on other websites.
     
    Amore likes this.
  5. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    Call it what you wish. The words we use as inhabitants of this plane are burdensome because we give WORDS too much weight. It is most important to BE what you feel is most beneficial to the betterment of life around you.
    What does this mean?
    I am a regular folk, but I am just unique. My thinking has been refined due to my acquaintance with another realm of Consciousness.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2018
  6. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    Each of us is unique, kim, and your limited experience doesn't prevent your agreeing with us simple folk, the ones who see 'death' meaning the end of life in-the-body. I still see death that way even though I know the discarnate individual lives on.

    As for NDE you still refer to yours that way!
     
  7. bluebird

    bluebird Well-Known Member

    It's not a matter of "belief", kim. Death does exist, the death of the physical body. If you want to make the argument that the soul continues to exist after the death of the physical body, fine, that is an arguable and possibly valid point, but as I said, that does not negate the physical death nor the ramifications of that death on those still living this human, earthly life.
     
  8. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    "Call it what you wish. " Near death experience is just dandy for me - I have no difficulty with that term.


    "The words we use as inhabitants of this plane are burdensome because we give WORDS too much weight."

    You may struggle with the weight of your words but I don't struggle with the weight of mine. Perhaps you need to bulk up? :D


    "It is most important to BE what you feel is most beneficial to the betterment of life around you."

    Go ahead, no-one's preventing you. But you still need to be able to write clearly on website forums if you want to communicate effectively...
     
  9. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    I know that we are each unique. I thought of the way I used that word, and I regretted it. I was sure someone had already read it, so I didn't make an attempt to go back and change it. Our uniqueness is a catalyst to our spiritual growth. I am a very plain person who just thinks different.
     
  10. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    I agree with you bluebird. The physical body does indeed face death, but I have freed my mind, where Consciousness dwells, from the flesh It inhabits.
     
  11. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    I think you've given a good example of my point above about effective communication.

    Many others may similarly think they too "just think different". ;) And if uniqueness is a catalyst to spiritual growth then one must assume catalysis works for everyone else, each unique.... I don't subscribe to that notion anyway. :D
     
  12. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    Perhaps
     
  13. bluebird

    bluebird Well-Known Member

    So then you can understand how it's a fallacy to say "there is no such thing as death" (since the word "death" refers to physical death, not necessarily to the cessation of an existence of the soul beyond that physical death).
     
  14. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    ,
    No, I don't understand that, because the physical body is not alive. We live inside a "physical" body. I can't understand why you want to support an idea, such as the fact that the physical body faces death, when it is not what lives. How can something die when it is not alive? What is important to bring to an end are the ideas alive in the human race that cause the corruption we must face as humans. Energy is what creates matter, and when we change the invisible energy within us the visible energy that has been slowed down for us to be able detect with our physical senses, in order to be individuals, will be transformed. Energy can not be created or destroyed, but it can be transformed. That is a physical law.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2018
  15. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    We are basing our physicality on nothing. Inside the molecule is empty space, as has been displayed by the Hadron Collider. The space between the subatomic particles is unimaginable when you consider that it exists within an atom.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2018
  16. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    It wasn't an answer to me but I'm going to chime in anyway. You have some odd ideas, kim.

    I've often used this construct yet it's still not having any appeal for you. The physical body of a living person IS alive - using the regular understanding of alive. But we don't live INSIDE our bodies. We - as spirit individuals - interpenetrate our whole body and animate the whole of it - our spirit brings it to life.

    Without a spirit to animate it the body would indeed not be alive - it would be dead! And treating body and spirit separately works only when that body is dead, the spirit having separated from it.

    I'm not going to comment on the rest, your homespun philosophy, save to say you view matters very differently from the way highly regarded teachers and guides have taught the situation.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2018
  17. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    yadayadayada

    How do you know whether others can't imagine the infinitessimally tiny ? Or for that matter the infinitessimally large? Just because you may not be able to do it doesn't mean that everyone else can't. In my mind's eye I can do both. It's a fundamental mistake to believe what you can't do then no-one else can either.

    Your going on again about sub-atomic particles, empty space and physicality is is so much blather. I thought you'd moved forward with that conversation but it seems you haven't.
     
  18. Amore

    Amore Active Member

    I think kim was answering to your earlier statement "Believe me, my husband died." (post 150), in essence saying that, his body died, but he didn't, while you seem to believe that he died in his totality (body and soul/spirit).
     
    kim marine likes this.
  19. Amore

    Amore Active Member

    I have no problems understanding kim's posts. I think she is making a great effort to put into words that for which no words exist. The nature of her experience is simply such that words don't suffice and never will, and hence might seem not clear enough or confusing to others who have had no such experience. That is however not her fault and as far as I can see she is trying her best to overcome these obstacles with grace and patience.
     
    kim marine likes this.
  20. Amore

    Amore Active Member

    I'm confused :confused: Isn't this exactly what kim meant by "we [spirit] live inside a physical body"? Your statement that our spirit brings the body to life implies that without our spirit it is not alive, which is what kim said: "when it is not what lives".

    Are we just splitting hairs here? o_O

    Please elaborate on what teachers and guides have said. What I remember reading again and again is that we are not our bodies, the body is just a vehicle for the spirit, and that the spirit is the spark that brings it to life. Is this not how you understand it?

    Genuinely confused here :confused:
     
    kim marine likes this.
  21. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    That is what I meant when I said I'm unique. I regretted using the word unique, as I know everyone is unique, so maybe I should have said oddly unique.
    Yes I know all that, but I've had an oddly unique experience and saw a picture of reality that was goes way beyond words. I don't want to go about splitting hairs when the answers are not readily available upon facts but only upon interpretation. I am content believing what I believe in.
    My ideas are not homespun but spiritually spun and I just follow them. The life I live is unfolding at its own pace. While unconscious, and in the NDE, I saw that I would lose my husband. Seeing that caused me not to want to continue with my life. My son was 9 years old when his father left the earth, and I foresaw that as well. I told Consciousness that I liked to be taken care of. I asked It who was going to take care of me? Consciousness said It was. Consciousness told me I only had to remove the illusion of my flesh and It would be able to care for me beautifully. I didn't believe It then, but I do now because Its' care has been displayed in my life since 1983.:)
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2018
  22. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    I am so thankful for your support, Amore!
     
  23. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    Maybe you can imagine the infinitesimally tiny and large. I think that is wonderful. I can't because I have experienced something, and I believe that our reality is based on nothing. We'll just have to agree to disagree on the basis of reality. Why must I agree with you? Can't I behold my "odd ideas"?
     
  24. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    I'm sorry, kim. I let my frustration spill over into becoming criticism of what you write. I'm going to butt out of this conversation as I'm not adding anything helpful.

    Again I apologise.
     
  25. bluebird

    bluebird Well-Known Member

    Yes, energy cannot be created or destroyed, only transformed -- that is the first law of thermodynamics. That law, however, does not purport to state that we continue to exist as souls in an afterlife, only that our physical energy continues in some way.

    Now, I am not saying that the soul is not alive, or that it does not continue after death. I don't know if it continues or not. I hope it does.

    Of course the physical body is alive, and after some time on this earth it dies. Whether or not the animating soul continues to exist or live is a separate issue. If you can't understand that, I see no point in discussing this matter further with you.
     
  26. bluebird

    bluebird Well-Known Member

    If that is what she meant, then she (and possibly you) misunderstood what I was saying. I know with certainty that my husband's body died, that he no longer exists in this life with me in the way that he did. As for his soul, I don't know if that continues or not, though I fervently hope so. Since I don't know, I would never say that his soul has ceased to exist.
     
  27. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    You are free - of course - to hold whatever oddball ideas you wish and of course you don't have to agree with me. BUT what annoyed me was your blanket claim, and the following are your words, "The space between the subatomic particles is unimaginable when you consider that it exists within an atom." Patently untrue because my imagination allows me to do it.
     
  28. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    I accept your apology Mac. I feel that Consciousness has given me one of the greatest gifts available to a human being, and it is my decision how to accept that gift and put on display through my body!
     
  29. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    maybe?
     
  30. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    no



    What did I say to suggest anything different?

    I'm quoting kim now: "Energy is what creates matter, and when we change the invisible energy within us the visible energy that has been slowed down for us to be able detect with our physical senses, in order to be individuals, will be transformed."

    Is this what you believe teachers and guides have said?
     

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