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illusion?

Discussion in 'Spiritual Growth & Development' started by mac, Dec 17, 2017.

  1. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    I'm sure about what I say but not about what I don't know...... And if I don't know I ask questions or I stay away from the subject.
     
  2. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    Weren't the ones who wrote the Bible just professional scribes? Few had the ability to write in those dim-and-distant days (so I was taught) and scribes did the actual writing for those who didn't know how.

    Who would be checking - one might wonder - that they'd accurately written down the words they'd verbally been given? room for error, perhaps misunderstandings? Common enough even now when literacy is at an all time high.
     
  3. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    "Anyway Mac I don't need to impress you with anything that I say."

    Absolutely you don't need to impress me. But I'm not here to be impressed by anyone - I'm just another member on ALF with a personal perspective on matters spiritual.

    I read what folk write and if something appeals to my reason I'll take it on board. I am neither influenced nor impressed by most of what I read because it feels like I've read most of it before.
     
  4. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    So, is that what you meant by your statement about not knowing god consciously. I knew about god, but kept it buried in my mind, but since the NDE, the image I bestow upon the earth has been transformed?
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2017
  5. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    You told somewhere in one of your many references to the time you spent in hospital that you rejected (or something similar) the God notion because you thought it was discredited. (or something similar) So yes you did have a notion what God meant but - I'm assuming - you buried and suppressed it. (You probably described things differently but it's as good as I can recall - look back for your exact words.)

    So after your hospitalisation and your life-altering near death experience the suppressed notion about God was laid bare. Then - it seems to me - you took the helpers/guides who provided your spiritual care and counselling for the individuals you'd heard about in your formative years. Jesus and God, individuals you'd 'buried' in a recess of your mind.

    Now as you pointed out to me in another posting, I don't know you as a person but I'd wager you experienced religious education in your American schooling. What you were taught more-than-likely went in and stayed in only to re-emerge during your trauma.

    But I'm not trying to diminish your experience with it's consequential physical, emotional and neurological effects. I'm most definitely not trying to diminish the intense emotional, psychological, spiritual impact on your whole personna.

    I'm not saying you didn't enounter Jesus. I'm not saying you didn't hear the voice of God during your prolonged coma; I simply don't know. What I am suggesting is that it may have appeared to you that one of your helpers was Jesus and that the dialogue you had was with God. Kinda scary, then, after you'd been rejecting all that good stuff for so many years.
     
  6. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    (bumped back into view)

    For a very long time I felt persuaded that experiences during life in-the-body enhanced the rate of personal spiritual progress. It’s what I thought spiritual guides had taught us. Nobody provided an alternative or at least I didn’t recognise it if they did.

    The words we use may mean different things to each of us. In a similar way we have different ideas about the way we came into being, both as spirit individuals and as humans. I’ve always thought we progressed spiritually towards a state of near spiritual perfection before we reach our end as individuals - progression from where we are spiritually now to a point where no further progress can be made. Recently all that changed.

    I still see us as from the source and identically similar to the source. When I say ‘us’ I’m referring to our ‘spirit selves’ our individual but spiritually-identical forms; identical ‘sparks’ of creative energy that animate every kind of personal existence. Those ‘sparks’ were spiritually perfect when they left the source to experience life as individuals and that spiritual perfection never changes. They don’t need to progress spiritually - they are already spiritually perfect. And when I refer to ‘they’ I’m actually meaning ‘us’, the spiritual us.

    We each are individuated sparks of that divine source, eternally spiritually-perfect but appearing as something less. Isn’t that the grandest of illusions?
     
  7. genewardsmith

    genewardsmith Active Member

    The "we" you said was not perfect.
     
  8. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    That is the impression my spiritual guides gave me while in the coma. I asked if they were God, and they giggled saying, "She thinks we are God. Giggle, giggle, giggle." It was so intense that I can't recall or type it all if I could. I didn't want to return here. When I was asked if I was ready to return I would say "yes", but when I returned everything was all dark and that is why I wouldn't wake up. Eventually I returned to the dreams and it kept going in circles like that what seemed forever.

    I like how you said we are individuated sparks of the divine source. My guides told me that Divinity has something to show through my body.
     
  9. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    "WE are not perfect - I suggest our animating spirits are. If that's accepted how can further progress be possible? :eek:" and " Who is undoing that appearance? ;)"

    But we regular humans aren't undoing it.....

    Humans are (I suggest) animated by their individual spirit forms BUT most individual spirits manifest in this dimension almost entirely in their human personna.

    And in our human forms WE are far from spiritually-knowledgeable let alone spiritually-perfect. Even though our animating spirits are. ;)
     
  10. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    My guides told me that there would be times in my life that would be familiar because I viewed a lot of former lives experienced while in the coma. ALF forum gives me familiar vibes. The conversation you and I are having right now gives me vibes. I was married in 1987. My husband and I would sometimes take a bus trip to New York City. Whenever we rode by the Trade Center I saw airplanes flying towards them. I never saw them crash, but just flying towards them. A few years later my husband and I were riding in his pick-up truck and I said to my husband, "I think I am going to be a widow." A couple years later he got cancer and about two more years he left the earth on 10/30/2000. A few other things I knew before it happened, but I won't get into them. I get vibes everyday that remind me of a familiarity.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2017
  11. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    Kinda reinforces what I'd hinted at, wouldn't you agree?




    That's a commonly-reported feeling concerning NDEs



    My guess is that your reluctance to return was stronger than your expressed agreement to return....

    My God, kim, have I made a little progress in reaching out? And you're speaking about guides now! wow!
     
  12. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    Yes!!! Thanks, Mac. It just toke time. I need patience. My guides reveal things to me in my sleep and last night they must have suggested I listen to Mac!:);)
     
  13. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    Gee Mac these messages we are exchanging today coincide with the scenery of the places I have been driving around lately in my home town, and the place I am going out to lunch today. All the vibes make harmony! Do you understand what I am saying?
     
  14. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    And perhaps my helpers did something similar with me, telling me not to drop into curmudgeon-mode too often (just sometimes to make a point!) and to be as patient as I'm often told I am. (unlikely though that may sound :p)
     
  15. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    Yes I do. Images are your favored means of expression and today scenery and places are lining up and complementing one another, perhaps reflecting what's happening to you, kim. :) I do hope so....
     
  16. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    I totally believe what you say. I'm not convinced, though, that all these things have necessarily had positive outcomes. But you didn't get to choose. Maybe when someone is badly injured and apparently close to death the protective mechanisms that keep regular folk from glimpsing what's in their future, or in their past, somehow briefly get impaired.

    Perhaps that's why (just) some of us - including OOBers and NDErs - get to take a look back to who they used to be and a look forward to what may happen in this world?
     
  17. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    I agree Mac. When I was born 9/16/64, I had a disorder called pyloric stenosis. Just in case you don't know what that is it is when a baby is born and the duodenum is dysfunctional and causes projectile vomiting and malnutrition and you can guess what is next. I was operated on when I was around 1 month and 3 days old. I may have had something like an NDE then, which of coarse I don't remember.

    I was in a hurry when I wrote the above quote. It sounds as though I actually saw real airplanes flying towards the Towers, but where I saw them was in my mind. That picture just popped in their. I saw it about 2,3 maybe 4 times whenever we went to NYC. Whenever I saw it I said to my husband who sat beside me on the bus, " I always see airplanes flying towards the Trade Center. I don't know why, but I don't like it." Then when it actually happened it took a little while before I even recalled seeing that picture in my mind a few years earlier.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2017
  18. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    You mean other people have other ways they connect with? Will you please give me other types connecters?
     
  19. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    What do you mean?
     
  20. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    Oh I know exactly what it is, kim.....

    When our daughter arrived she leaked like a sieve after being fed and given water. She couldn't keep in the milk she was given - breast and later formula - and cried, and cried, and cried..... We were at our wits' end because she was perpetually leaking and perpetually hungry as a consequence. And forever crying!

    I kept hearing in my head 'pyloric stenosis' (which later we researched and realised was nothing like her symptom) but as we were just 'into' this spiritual stuff I didn't want to miss something a spirit helper migh have been communicating to me. The doctors checked everything out but she was fine and we struggled on for months until she weaned on to solids and hallelujah - our baby became a contented baby as she wasn't forever hungry.


    The 9/11 attrocity has more meaning to this Brit than perhaps it has for others. We took a New York city vacation 2001 at Easter, did all the sightseeing stuff that even American tourists do and went uo on the observation deck of the towers. Late afternoon looking over new York as the sun began to set and the city lights started to come on. Fast forward to September and I was cooking supper and watching TV wondering why a movie was on at that time of day - except it was no movie. The horror was overwhelming so I can understand how you might feel, particularly so as you'd foreseen those events. I can't say I envy anyone's attribute of seeing into a potential future.
     
  21. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    We ordinary folk - people like me - don't get to see what you did. I've always thought that was down to some mechanism to keep us experiencing events in comparative isolation, out of an overall context. But that's just my view and it could be wholly inaccurate.

    Yet something appears to prevent most of us knowing about any previous lives or looking forward towards a potential future.
     
  22. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    I never saw the planes actually crashing just flying towards the Towers. I don't see anything specific in the future anymore, but I do have a dream in my mind that will manifest on its own when the time is right.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2017
  23. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    All I was meaning is that some individuals learn best, perhaps communicate best, with graphical input/output - pictures rather than words. In school I worked with kids who looked dumb when they tried to write, spell or speak but give 'em a sheet of paper and pencil crayons and they could draw what they were wanting to say and then talk about it. Teachers were later expected to deliver teaching in ways that suited those kids and not simply present text or speak about a subject. I'm guessing that's how it still is.
     
  24. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    I hope this leaves you feeling more comfortable than sometimes you appear. :)
     
  25. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    Yes it sure does. Another thing I was faced with before I awoke from the coma was my impending widowhood. I wasn't married until 6 years after the accident, so of coarse, I had forgotten all about it.

    There was no other for me but who I married. I saw this during the NDE and I also saw that he would die. I asked my guides why I would want to go down and live a life in which I would lose my husband and raise a son (who was 9 when his father left the earth.) I told my guides that I like to be taken care of and asked who would do this after my husband died? They said they would be delighted to care for me, but only if I let them. I have not remarried. I don't plan to either.

    I feel a lot more comfortable today about a lot of things.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2017
  26. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    It's nice to hear that. :)
     
  27. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    Preference
     
  28. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    That is something I recall my guides using as a persuasive angle to get me to wake up when I was in the coma. I thought it was just one big trick. I thought I was going to wake up and be in paradise, but whenever I was left to wake up everything got dark. I kept refusing to wake up, but I guess I did.
     
  29. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    Who knows what else they might have tried? These issues are - I'd guess - outside the experience of regular forum contributors. Perhaps what's different, kim, is that although others may have been in a similar state, you've maintained a recall of what happened to you.

    It sounds a pretty traumatic situation to have found yourself in and to have had little discernible support over the past 30 odd years.
     
  30. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    Yes, it was rough at times. I sure am glad I began the ALF forum.
     

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