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illusion?

Discussion in 'Spiritual Growth & Development' started by mac, Dec 17, 2017.

  1. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    You misunderstood. I know we are spiritually perfect, so I don't know why we come her and incarnate. Neither did Paul.
     
  2. mac

    mac ALF member Staff Member

    Paul - who's Paul....? Strike that - I've since looked at your earlier posting. Disciple Paul you meant.

    Yes I misunderstood because I read what you said rather than what you meant I suppose... You don't know why we incarnate? Get in line and join the club! I can make a suggestion - it's for the same reason(s) we separate from source in the first place, when we first merge as singular enties with individual identities. None the wiser? It's not an easy subject to grasp and I don't know if I have any real idea of the reason(s) I'll find out when I get back; not that long now...
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2017
  3. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    So it is a mystery to you? I think IT just enjoys nurturing, so IT had to create something else other than perfected spirit to nurture. So here we are. Remember I said in an earlier post that we had to agree to forget our spiritual identity before we can incarnate. If we don't agree to forget we don't get to come here.
     
  4. genewardsmith

    genewardsmith Member

    If we are perfect but appear as something less, how does undoing that appearance not count as spiritual progress?
     
  5. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    Because when the spirit turns visible it is only for a short time. Eternal progress is what's important.
     
  6. mac

    mac ALF member Staff Member

    You didn't consciously know that you knew about God.


    See this is where we'll always differ. Not about what you experienced but how you interpreted the events. You MAY have seen the Nazarene, that guy may have come specially to see you but how would you know it was he? Same with your idea that God answered your questions - how would you know that was God? Equally likely, if not much more likely, is that your helper/guide was your personal guide or another 'drafted in' for the task in hand - getting you sorted out.

    And its influence on you is evident in most everything you say...

    If you feel that's the best way to research then that's an end to the matter. Others tread different paths. Me, I'm not keen on using imagination, much preferring persuasive, simple explanations. Chaq'un a son gout mi duck....


    Of course you should do for yourself what feels right for you....


    Who are 'they', kim?




    agreed

    That's figurative, not literal.




    again it's figurative - Look, kim, I'm going to leave you now to discuss all this with the experts on the Bible. They're the ones with whom you can have the most meaningful conversation. My preference is for contemporary guidance rather than translated and mis-translated words and ideas recorded over two millennia ago.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2017
  7. mac

    mac ALF member Staff Member

    Who is undoing that appearance? ;)

    WE are not perfect - I suggest our animating spirits are. If that's accepted how can further progress be possible? :eek: If you don't accept it then we need to agree to disagree.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2017
  8. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    I was afraid of IT. Society painted a bad image of It.

    I agree but I like to be taken care of so I just imagine a big invincible man doing the job.

    Towards the end of my hospital stay I was able to come home for the weekends. When I was doing that my parents asked me if I wanted to do anything special. I said I wanted to go to church of all things, because we were not a church going family. But they took me. That is just one thing that I saw during my NDE. I have been experiencing moments like that since 1983 when I had the NDE. Anyway Mac I don't need to impress you with anything that I say.

    People who wrote the Bible
     
  9. mac

    mac ALF member Staff Member

    a mystery? yes - why not? just one of many
     
  10. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    Just asking. You seem to be so sure of yourself in your responses I was just wondering.....
     
  11. mac

    mac ALF member Staff Member

    I'm sure about what I say but not about what I don't know...... And if I don't know I ask questions or I stay away from the subject.
     
  12. mac

    mac ALF member Staff Member

    Weren't the ones who wrote the Bible just professional scribes? Few had the ability to write in those dim-and-distant days (so I was taught) and scribes did the actual writing for those who didn't know how.

    Who would be checking - one might wonder - that they'd accurately written down the words they'd verbally been given? room for error, perhaps misunderstandings? Common enough even now when literacy is at an all time high.
     
  13. mac

    mac ALF member Staff Member

    "Anyway Mac I don't need to impress you with anything that I say."

    Absolutely you don't need to impress me. But I'm not here to be impressed by anyone - I'm just another member on ALF with a personal perspective on matters spiritual.

    I read what folk write and if something appeals to my reason I'll take it on board. I am neither influenced nor impressed by most of what I read because it feels like I've read most of it before.
     
  14. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    So, is that what you meant by your statement about not knowing god consciously. I knew about god, but kept it buried in my mind, but since the NDE, the image I bestow upon the earth has been transformed?
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2017
  15. mac

    mac ALF member Staff Member

    You told somewhere in one of your many references to the time you spent in hospital that you rejected (or something similar) the God notion because you thought it was discredited. (or something similar) So yes you did have a notion what God meant but - I'm assuming - you buried and suppressed it. (You probably described things differently but it's as good as I can recall - look back for your exact words.)

    So after your hospitalisation and your life-altering near death experience the suppressed notion about God was laid bare. Then - it seems to me - you took the helpers/guides who provided your spiritual care and counselling for the individuals you'd heard about in your formative years. Jesus and God, individuals you'd 'buried' in a recess of your mind.

    Now as you pointed out to me in another posting, I don't know you as a person but I'd wager you experienced religious education in your American schooling. What you were taught more-than-likely went in and stayed in only to re-emerge during your trauma.

    But I'm not trying to diminish your experience with it's consequential physical, emotional and neurological effects. I'm most definitely not trying to diminish the intense emotional, psychological, spiritual impact on your whole personna.

    I'm not saying you didn't enounter Jesus. I'm not saying you didn't hear the voice of God during your prolonged coma; I simply don't know. What I am suggesting is that it may have appeared to you that one of your helpers was Jesus and that the dialogue you had was with God. Kinda scary, then, after you'd been rejecting all that good stuff for so many years.
     
  16. mac

    mac ALF member Staff Member

    (bumped back into view)

    For a very long time I felt persuaded that experiences during life in-the-body enhanced the rate of personal spiritual progress. It’s what I thought spiritual guides had taught us. Nobody provided an alternative or at least I didn’t recognise it if they did.

    The words we use may mean different things to each of us. In a similar way we have different ideas about the way we came into being, both as spirit individuals and as humans. I’ve always thought we progressed spiritually towards a state of near spiritual perfection before we reach our end as individuals - progression from where we are spiritually now to a point where no further progress can be made. Recently all that changed.

    I still see us as from the source and identically similar to the source. When I say ‘us’ I’m referring to our ‘spirit selves’ our individual but spiritually-identical forms; identical ‘sparks’ of creative energy that animate every kind of personal existence. Those ‘sparks’ were spiritually perfect when they left the source to experience life as individuals and that spiritual perfection never changes. They don’t need to progress spiritually - they are already spiritually perfect. And when I refer to ‘they’ I’m actually meaning ‘us’, the spiritual us.

    We each are individuated sparks of that divine source, eternally spiritually-perfect but appearing as something less. Isn’t that the grandest of illusions?
     
  17. genewardsmith

    genewardsmith Member

    The "we" you said was not perfect.
     
  18. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    That is the impression my spiritual guides gave me while in the coma. I asked if they were God, and they giggled saying, "She thinks we are God. Giggle, giggle, giggle." It was so intense that I can't recall or type it all if I could. I didn't want to return here. When I was asked if I was ready to return I would say "yes", but when I returned everything was all dark and that is why I wouldn't wake up. Eventually I returned to the dreams and it kept going in circles like that what seemed forever.

    I like how you said we are individuated sparks of the divine source. My guides told me that Divinity has something to show through my body.
     
  19. mac

    mac ALF member Staff Member

    "WE are not perfect - I suggest our animating spirits are. If that's accepted how can further progress be possible? :eek:" and " Who is undoing that appearance? ;)"

    But we regular humans aren't undoing it.....

    Humans are (I suggest) animated by their individual spirit forms BUT most individual spirits manifest in this dimension almost entirely in their human personna.

    And in our human forms WE are far from spiritually-knowledgeable let alone spiritually-perfect. Even though our animating spirits are. ;)
     
  20. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    My guides told me that there would be times in my life that would be familiar because I viewed a lot of former lives experienced while in the coma. ALF forum gives me familiar vibes. The conversation you and I are having right now gives me vibes. I was married in 1987. My husband and I would sometimes take a bus trip to New York City. Whenever we rode by the Trade Center I saw airplanes flying towards them. I never saw them crash, but just flying towards them. A few years later my husband and I were riding in his pick-up truck and I said to my husband, "I think I am going to be a widow." A couple years later he got cancer and about two more years he left the earth on 10/30/2000. A few other things I knew before it happened, but I won't get into them. I get vibes everyday that remind me of a familiarity.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2017

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