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illusion?

Discussion in 'Spiritual Growth & Development' started by mac, Dec 17, 2017.

  1. mac

    mac ALF member Staff Member

    I’ve done my stuff. I’ve researched and contemplated all I found. Then out of the blue recently I got a big surprise about something I had felt comfortable with for a long time – spirituality.

    For a very long time I felt persuaded that experiences during life in-the-body enhanced the rate of personal spiritual progress. It’s what I thought spiritual guides had taught us. Nobody provided an alternative or at least I didn’t recognise it if they did.

    The words we use may mean different things to each of us. In a similar way we have different ideas about the way we came into being, both as spirit individuals and as humans. I’ve always thought we progressed spiritually towards a state of near spiritual perfection before we reach our end as individuals - progression from where we are spiritually now to a point where no further progress can be made. Recently all that changed.

    I still see us as from the source and identically similar to the source. When I say ‘us’ I’m referring to our ‘spirit selves’ our individual but spiritually-identical forms; identical ‘sparks’ of creative energy that animate every kind of personal existence. Those ‘sparks’ were spiritually perfect when they left the source to experience life as individuals and that spiritual perfection never changes. They don’t need to progress spiritually - they are already spiritually perfect. And when I refer to ‘they’ I’m actually meaning ‘us’, the spiritual us.

    We each are individuated sparks of that divine source, eternally spiritually-perfect but appearing as something less. Isn’t that the grandest of illusions?
     
    kim marine likes this.
  2. lovehim

    lovehim Member

    Huh, interesting perspective.
     
  3. mac

    mac ALF member Staff Member

    Yeah I thought so too....
     
  4. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    I am going to refer to the one who created the energy that forms us as IM or Intelligent Mind in what I write below, and I give Max Planck the credit:

    I like what you said Mac, especially your last line, "Isn't that the grandest of illusions?" because the same thing has been on my mind. I've wondered at times how dull everything would be if there were no challenges in life. How can there be any challenge in raising a perfect Spiritual Being that thinks and speaks like everyone else? There is no fun in that. So, IM knew that illusions could be created out of energy. IM created our body which is made of energy. We agreed with IM to forget who we are before we are born here on this plane and agreed to live a life in a "new body" to face challenges. That way IM will have something to provide some action in this invisible stuff called "life". We are spiritual beings so have therefore been alive forever. There is a verse in the Bible that caused me to think this: Galatians 4:9-'But now that you know God-or rather are known by God-how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable principles? (some translations use the word 'elements') Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again?' That sounds like reincarnation if you are able to return to weak and miserable principles, but we just chose to return here to grow spiritually!

    IMs "physical" creations' challenge is to maintain this "physical earth".
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2017
    Amore likes this.
  5. mac

    mac ALF member Staff Member

    uh, oh, sounds like religion but you told me you're not religious....




    quoting myself: "...They don’t need to progress spiritually - they are already spiritually perfect. And when I refer to ‘they’ I’m actually meaning ‘us’, the spiritual us."

    Looks like I didn't do much of a job explaining myself.

    hmmmmm.....
     
  6. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    How can you say something so enlightened as you did above and then talk out of the other side of your mouth in your comments to my post?

     
  7. mac

    mac ALF member Staff Member

    You'll need to spell out what you mean - what didn't you follow?
     
  8. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    Just because I speak of the Bible doesn't make me religious. You have never met me in person so I feel you are making an immature unfounded assumption. It sounds like you are just blowing hot air.
    Maybe I didn't explain myself too well here, but I know we don't need to progress spiritually, so why would we want to return here? There is no gain, since we are already perfect.
     
  9. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    I don't know what the hmmm... was about, Mac, but aren't I entitled to use my imagination?
     
  10. mac

    mac ALF member Staff Member

    "Just because I speak of the Bible doesn't make me religious. You have never met me in person so I feel you are making an immature unfounded assumption. It sounds like you are just blowing hot air."

    It kinda does.... I haven't met lots of people in person but those who quote from the Bible or talk repeatedly about God lead me to certain conclusions. I'm comfortable with your thinking I'm blowing hot air. I'm sure I'm not....
     
    lovehim likes this.
  11. mac

    mac ALF member Staff Member

    quote: "Maybe I didn't explain myself too well here...."

    quite - this is what you wrote in response to what I wrote: "That sounds like reincarnation if you are able to return to weak and miserable principles, but we just chose to return here to grow spiritually....."

    Isn't that the very opposite of the point I'd tried to make? That we are already spiritually perfect? That it's an illusion we incarnate to enhance our spiritual progress?
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2017
  12. mac

    mac ALF member Staff Member

    Of course you're entitled to use imagination and I'm entitled to remark hmmmm when you do.
     
  13. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    Well, was it a hmmmmm,,,, with + vibes or = vibes?


    I don't think studying the Bible makes someone religious. They were spiritual beings having a human experience just as we are, and I feel it is important to observe the evolution of our thought process. After all, they knew things that we don't and vice versa.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2017
  14. mac

    mac ALF member Staff Member

    hmmmmm.....
     
    lovehim likes this.
  15. mac

    mac ALF member Staff Member

    "uh, oh, sounds like religion but you told me you're not religious...."

    "I don't think studying the Bible makes someone religious."

    I didn't know you studied the Bible! But you're right - studying the Bible doesn't make you religious but anyone regularly quoting from it and referring to God suggests they are.... viz. "There is a verse in the Bible that caused me to think this: Galatians 4:9-'But now that you know God-or rather are known by God-how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable principles? (some translations use the word 'elements') Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again?'"

    Merriam Webster offers this as one definition: "relating to or manifesting faithful devotion to an acknowledged ultimate reality or deity". You decide.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2017
  16. mac

    mac ALF member Staff Member

    I assume you actually meant "+vibes or -vibes"

    Did you get vibes? Were they plus or minus ones? ;)
     
  17. mac

    mac ALF member Staff Member

    (bumped into view)

    For a very long time I felt persuaded that experiences during life in-the-body enhanced the rate of personal spiritual progress. It’s what I thought spiritual guides had taught us. Nobody provided an alternative or at least I didn’t recognise it if they did.

    The words we use may mean different things to each of us. In a similar way we have different ideas about the way we came into being, both as spirit individuals and as humans. I’ve always thought we progressed spiritually towards a state of near spiritual perfection before we reach our end as individuals - progression from where we are spiritually now to a point where no further progress can be made. Recently all that changed.

    I still see us as from the source and identically similar to the source. When I say ‘us’ I’m referring to our ‘spirit selves’ our individual but spiritually-identical forms; identical ‘sparks’ of creative energy that animate every kind of personal existence. Those ‘sparks’ were spiritually perfect when they left the source to experience life as individuals and that spiritual perfection never changes. They don’t need to progress spiritually - they are already spiritually perfect. And when I refer to ‘they’ I’m actually meaning ‘us’, the spiritual us.

    We each are individuated sparks of that divine source, eternally spiritually-perfect but appearing as something less. Isn’t that the grandest of illusions?
     
  18. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    Yes, I did mean + vibes or - vibes, but it was hard for me to distinguish between the = and the -, since it was early in the morning and the double vision I have anyway.

    On a scale of 1-10 the vibes were between an 8.5-10. I thought maybe it was something you were pondering on.
     
  19. mac

    mac ALF member Staff Member

    I'm usually pondering something here on ALF.
     
    lovehim likes this.
  20. kim marine

    kim marine Active Member

    I just have little bits and pieces of the Bible in my mind. You've got to start somewhere. Before the accident I had I didn't even believe in god. When I was hit by the car all I know was that all of a sudden I saw the Nazarene and I asked IT why I was going to heaven since I didn't believe in IT, but IT told me I believed in him subconsciously. So when discharged from the hospital I began reading the Bible. There are many things in the Bible that IF we used our imagination could serve as enlightening pieces of information or clues to the reality of our "physical" existence. I think it is ignorant to just cut off our earliest learning experiences here on earth. They knew some things we don't. The source of life back then is the same as it is today. Somewhere in the Bible Paul says we are shadows, and that is a something worth investigating and pondering. I think it that is a very curious thing that Paul said. As a matter of fact nothing being physical is ever brought up to any significant degree in the Bible. We were considered to be "images" and "images" are not material objects. Can you imagine anyone in 2017 referring to themselves as a "shadow"
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2017
    Amore likes this.

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