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Ian Stevenson

Discussion in 'Afterlife Evidence' started by zilch, Jan 22, 2019.

  1. mac

    mac Staff Member

    I expect many of us will have experience of Alzheimer's and other dementia and that number looks set to continue rising as more and more individuals survive longer. Medical care is keeping us alive longer but it can't prevent deterioration of all our systems.

    It's desperately sad to see a loved one gradually disappear as they're no longer able to remember properly and/or relate to those they loved. My sister has begun that process, my father suffered it in his last years. I fear I may go a similar way if I don't have sufficient of my mother's genes to counterbalance my dad's.

    When dementia sets in folk become isolated and often confused, one of the many sad ways to spend our last days in this world. I hope medical research finds a way to stop that happening.
     
  2. zilch

    zilch New Member

    For the first time here, I can optimistically disagree! I believe that even without memories and emotions there might be more of you than you think. (But I do think that love, curiosity, etc. are more than an emotion).
     
  3. bluebird

    bluebird Regular Contributor

    Would you mind elaborating? Sounds interesting.
     
  4. Hazada Guess

    Hazada Guess Member

    Mac,after looking after mum during the entire process,I totally agree with you.
     
  5. zilch

    zilch New Member

    I've read and seen enough to believe that even without memories (and even without language) you can still be a being that can love and care. And even if you become somebody you'd despise earlier due to bad choices/illness/etc. then if there was a moment in your life when you were a good person, then it is not fully lost. A while ago you didn't even know human language; now you have the full range of experiences; someday you might lose some of these (as mac wrote, it is painful to look at dementia patients, but it is real); then you will lose all. I would like to believe that something that is not transient carries on and if so then it is more than experiences that can corrupt you and change you into someone that you really aren't.

    I'm not sure if I wrote what I wanted to say, but I tried :)
     
  6. bluebird

    bluebird Regular Contributor

    Thank you for elaborating. I agree that one can still love and care even without memories and/or language, but without memories I think one loses a big part of who one is. If a person loses her/his memories in life, such as occurs with dementia patients, then in a very real way that person is no longer who s/he was (in my opinion). If there is an afterlife, perhaps that person recovers her/his memories once s/he dies, and is then much more the soul/being/person that s/he was before. To me, that would be the "something that is not transient [carrying] on".
     
  7. Convolution

    Convolution Active Member

    I have pondered this notion that if we survive, perhaps it isn't all that survives.
    This certainly seems implied when you hear of NDE experiences which describe a state of mind that seems quite different from what we would expect of our conscious experience- often failing to notice things which we, alive, would claim to be quite obvious.
    Then what is it that would survive? The conscious observer in each of us?
    Different books I've read seem to have implied different aspects of survival. I'm not sure I understand which are more likely.
     
  8. Convolution

    Convolution Active Member

    I think where the analogy breaks down some, and the part that I have difficulty with (I believe it to be the same part Zilch may be referencing, though he may correct me if I'm wrong) is that indeed when a radio is broken it may pick up static, but it won't pick up different songs and programming from the same station (the station or frequency here serving as reference for the soul).
    Indeed with Phineas Gage, Ann from Jenn's post, my grandmother as well as many others, the personality changes along with changes in the brain. The "songs are different", if you will.
    I can only infer that the personality is in some way constructed by the brain, with consciousness serving as the witness.
    Consciousness may be an entirely different thing altogether- it may simply turn out to be pure power of presence and observation, with personality being a layer added on top.
     
    zilch likes this.
  9. mac

    mac Staff Member

    zilch's response to the above was mainly via an NDE account from Joseph Graci and that can now be found in the NDE forum.
     
  10. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    Dear Convolution and everyone, near-death experiences have nothing whatsoever to do with death or the afterlife. The only things we can learn from them is that consciousness easily functions apart from the body, and that the enormous astral - which is where these people are - is deeply love-based. That is precisely all that you can learn from NDEs that is even remotely related to the topics that we discuss on this website.
     

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